I am grateful to have suffered and will keep suffering

[Riu]

You know what I'm grateful for?

The bad days. I'm grateful for bad days because they remind me why I want to become better. When I'm too comfortable, I forget the reason I strive to improve. Bad days, pain and suffering, these things even though they are not what I wish for. They are what I need. I am glad that I am able to suffer. I'm glad I wasn't born with everything, because then there would really be no reason in me living. I'm glad I am able to work for things I want. I am grateful to be alive because as long as I am alive I will suffer, and most importantly, improve.

Don't you guys agree?

 

[Valky]

That is great to hear to you have such a positive outlook on suffering :)

But I also fully understand why others don't (myself somewhat included).

Yes, I am grateful for the experience I was able to make through all of this. I probably wouldn't want to change any of it, even if it was incredibly hard and exhausting.

The problem is that the bad days often seem to overshadow the good days and block my rationality. They make me feel again like life isn't worth living for myself and that I just want to die, completely ignoring how I feel on my good days (which are luckily more by now).

We cling to familiarity, even if it has negative effects on us. Including suffering. But to truly 'recover' it is important to learn how to let go off all those negative habits and patterns.

 

[Strawberry_Clouds]

I like the way you think about pain, I wish I could share it. But when my days are almost always feel bad it's hard to feel like when I do improve, I'm making progress, that my suffering will get better or easier to handle.

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

Schopenhauer wrote that happiness is negative in the sense that it's not a thing-in-itself, but is instead the absence of suffering, with suffering being the default state of existence. Suffering is positive. You can experience it as its own thing. When you are hungry, you feel hunger itself and it is unpleasant; when you've eaten and you are satiated, you don't feel satiation per se, but the state that arises from the absence of hunger.

I can't say I'm grateful when I suffer, even if suffering leads to happiness when it goes away, but I understand the point you're making. Focusing not on the suffering itself, but seeing it as the thing that gives way to happiness. Insofar as the means of reducing your own suffering are somewhat under your control, it can be a useful reminder to keep the pace up and not grow complacent. Because, at the end of the day, we're in a constant battle to reduce suffering, and the moment we start slacking off suffering naturally builds back up.

Overall, though I wouldn't formulate my thoughts in the same way, I think you have the right idea. Reducing suffering, or at least keeping it in check, is the goal. Keep your positive outlook, and do what you can to reduce suffering for yourself and others. It's all we can really do.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

It's great you can get sth positive out of suffering and as others already said some suffering can push us to change this current state which is in many cases more or less unpleasant for us and we want to feel better. But what if suffering surpasses everything else? It's somehow the case with me, even small things don't make me feel better or small success is not enough because really I hate it when a small positive feeling is gone again that will just increase my suffering even more and therefore I try to avoid it before it happens.

 

[Rintiva]

I try to keep this viewpoint as well. Suffering is apart of the human experience, and knowing how much it shapes us I try to accept it.

 

[SkyExists]

You know what I'm grateful for?

The bad days. I'm grateful for bad days because they remind me why I want to become better. When I'm too comfortable, I forget the reason I strive to improve. Bad days, pain and suffering, these things even though they are not what I wish for. They are what I need. I am glad that I am able to suffer. I'm glad I wasn't born with everything, because then there would really be no reason in me living. I'm glad I am able to work for things I want. I am grateful to be alive because as long as I am alive I will suffer, and most importantly, improve.

Don't you guys agree?

Honestly by far the most interesting outlook on suffering, I wish you the best, and, in a way I suppose I agree.

 

[blujay21]

Schopenhauer wrote that happiness is negative in the sense that it's not a thing-in-itself, but is instead the absence of suffering, with suffering being the default state of existence. Suffering is positive. You can experience it as its own thing. When you are hungry, you feel hunger itself and it is unpleasant; when you've eaten and you are satiated, you don't feel satiation per se, but the state that arises from the absence of hunger.

I can't say I'm grateful when I suffer, even if suffering leads to happiness when it goes away, but I understand the point you're making. Focusing not on the suffering itself, but seeing it as the thing that gives way to happiness. Insofar as the means of reducing your own suffering are somewhat under your control, it can be a useful reminder to keep the pace up and not grow complacent. Because, at the end of the day, we're in a constant battle to reduce suffering, and the moment we start slacking off suffering naturally builds back up.

Overall, though I wouldn't formulate my thoughts in the same way, I think you have the right idea. Reducing suffering, or at least keeping it in check, is the goal. Keep your positive outlook, and do what you can to reduce suffering for yourself and others. It's all we can really do.

based Schopenhauer quote

 

[ncmxm]

No lol of course I don't agree

This is just pure copium and one of the most retarded views I ever read, you're the same as ppl who say suffering is a test from god or whatever

 

[Riu]

No lol of course I don't agree

This is just pure copium and one of the most retarded views I ever read, you're the same as ppl who say suffering is a test from god or whatever

I don't understand. I mean that suffering or uncomfortably is what makes people change and become better. I think that if we were only happy we would have no reason to do anything to become better. Aren't what we "feel" or the emotions we have what drive us to do what we do? I think to live is to evolve and learn. To experience what life really is and to change to become the best you can be.

What part do you disagree with? Is it because I view suffering in a positive light? How do you view it? Would you please give me some insight on your thoughts? I would be glad to hear what you think because I'm not the smartest person in the world so I need others to give me their opinion so I can find out what is best. I am open to change, I think it's a good thing to be ever changing and keep becoming better.

Also I am not religious at all, but I don't think it's a bad thing to be religious. I think that if it improves their quality of life then that's a good thing. I wish I could believe in a religion but it just doesn't make sense to me at all.
Thanks.

 

[stillunemployed]

I am not.
I haven't learned, gained or became stronger because I keep suffering. It just marked me for everyone else that i'm fair game to be looked down on and humiliated over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
And because I didn't do the impossible and somehow escaped suffering sometime before, it's all my own fault and all the pain is true and just had no need for an explanation.
Because is "in the past".

If anyone thinks suffering is somehow good, they have a fetish. That's it.

 

[Riu]

I am not.
I haven't learned, gained or became stronger because I keep suffering. It just marked me for everyone else that i'm fair game to be looked down on and humiliated over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
And because I didn't do the impossible and somehow escaped suffering sometime before, it's all my own fault and all the pain is true and just had no need for an explanation.
Because is "in the past".

If anyone thinks suffering is somehow good, they have a fetish. That's it.

Well, I don't think anyone without a fetish should enjoy suffering, want it, or actively seek it out. I'm saying that suffering is what makes us change. You seem like you've been bullied? If you've been bullied, isn't that a reason to become better so you don't get bullied as opposed to if you were never bullied there would be absolutely no reason to do or try anything different. I'm not saying you need to change or anything, my point is that suffering is what creates change. Uncomfortably is what drives us to do what we normally wouldn't do.

I don't think suffering alone makes anyone better. It's that it's the reason people become better. It's what drives people, right?

My post has two things. One is that suffering is what drives people to change and become better if they desire to. Two that I appreciate it because it is a motivator for me to become better. Of course some people have mental illnesses or some other thing that makes suffering a lot tougher and at that point not good in any way, but for people who don't have problems in that realm I think suffering or more like uncomfortably is not that horrible. Many times, people who have gone through a horrible breakup or something like that will become better. It's possible to use pain as a motivator and it can be a great one, so why not?

I don't think there's any philosophy or way of thinking that works for everyone. I don't think there's any solution that works for everyone. Everyone has different traits, lives, ideals, etc. I think it's best to create your own solution through what you've personally experienced with help from others if you decide to be open to it. I feel like everyone is biased to some degree based on their personal experiences. I think it's best to be open minded and listen to others to decide if it really makes sense or not. I don't think anyone or at least majority of people are dumb. Everyone has to have a reason to believe in what they believe in. It's up to us to listen and decide for ourselves if it's something we should believe in too, but ultimately people at least most of the times will have a reason for something, right?

I'm sorry if my originally post was a bit confusing. Is this more clear to you? Does this help you understand my point a bit more?

 

[suicidalloser]

glorifying pain I see.

 

[Riu]

glorifying pain I see.

I don't understand, do you believe that pain can only be a bad thing with no redeeming qualities? Do you believe that if we never feel anything uncomfortable that we would be any better?

I just think it's interesting how it's possible to see some positivity even in suffering. I think some people here reject the idea of positive thinking, and I'd like to ask why? Isn't negative thinking the same? Thinking only in one way? Then is the best way of thinking both negative and positive? Why must you reject positive thinking? Is it not trustworthy? How come? How do you know everything will turn out bad?

 

[WorthlessTrash]

People who dont suffer tend to objectively be happier than those who do suffer. That is a fact. In fact suffering is what leads many to CTB (commit suicide). Also, praising people who are suffering and staying alive is a slap in the face to those who suffer and CTB. You are in effect calling them weak.

Honestly, this is pure copium at best.

 

[suicidalloser]

I don't understand, do you believe that pain can only be a bad thing with no redeeming qualities? Do you believe that if we never feel anything uncomfortable that we would be any better?

I just think it's interesting how it's possible to see some positivity even in suffering. I think some people here reject the idea of positive thinking, and I'd like to ask why? Isn't negative thinking the same? Thinking only in one way? Then is the best way of thinking both negative and positive? Why must you reject positive thinking? Is it not trustworthy? How come? How do you know everything will turn out bad?

Who are you!? Claudia Wolf?
↓

Happy people can be so cruel. Is it so hard to believe that sympathy can be born out of pain? And suffering?

 

[josephk]

if positive thinking works for you thats great. Personally, its deeply entrenched in my psyche that the problem is life & the world, not me . But thats why im as gloomy as can be

 

[Praestat_Mori]

People who dont suffer tend to objectively be happier than those who do suffer. That is a fact. In fact suffering is what leads many to CTB (commit suicide). Also, praising people who are suffering and staying alive is a slap in the face to those who suffer and CTB. You are in effect calling them weak.

Honestly, this is pure copium at best.

Suffering can have so many individual reasons what an individual does not or cannot bear any more. TRUE!!!

I don't understand, do you believe that pain can only be a bad thing with no redeeming qualities? Do you believe that if we never feel anything uncomfortable that we would be any better?

I just think it's interesting how it's possible to see some positivity even in suffering. I think some people here reject the idea of positive thinking, and I'd like to ask why? Isn't negative thinking the same? Thinking only in one way? Then is the best way of thinking both negative and positive? Why must you reject positive thinking? Is it not trustworthy? How come? How do you know everything will turn out bad?

Yes suffering may want you to change things if you know what should change. But if this cannot be changed the way you wish for your suffering will not end at all.

 

[stillunemployed]

Well, I don't think anyone without a fetish should enjoy suffering, want it, or actively seek it out. I'm saying that suffering is what makes us change. You seem like you've been bullied? If you've been bullied, isn't that a reason to become better so you don't get bullied as opposed to if you were never bullied there would be absolutely no reason to do or try anything different. I'm not saying you need to change or anything, my point is that suffering is what creates change. Uncomfortably is what drives us to do what we normally wouldn't do.

I don't think suffering alone makes anyone better. It's that it's the reason people become better. It's what drives people, right?

My post has two things. One is that suffering is what drives people to change and become better if they desire to. Two that I appreciate it because it is a motivator for me to become better. Of course some people have mental illnesses or some other thing that makes suffering a lot tougher and at that point not good in any way, but for people who don't have problems in that realm I think suffering or more like uncomfortably is not that horrible. Many times, people who have gone through a horrible breakup or something like that will become better. It's possible to use pain as a motivator and it can be a great one, so why not?

I don't think there's any philosophy or way of thinking that works for everyone. I don't think there's any solution that works for everyone. Everyone has different traits, lives, ideals, etc. I think it's best to create your own solution through what you've personally experienced with help from others if you decide to be open to it. I feel like everyone is biased to some degree based on their personal experiences. I think it's best to be open minded and listen to others to decide if it really makes sense or not. I don't think anyone or at least majority of people are dumb. Everyone has to have a reason to believe in what they believe in. It's up to us to listen and decide for ourselves if it's something we should believe in too, but ultimately people at least most of the times will have a reason for something, right?

I'm sorry if my originally post was a bit confusing. Is this more clear to you? Does this help you understand my point a bit more?

Bullying is a dominance display, same as harassment, rape or abuse. It is specifically designed to entrap victims to either submit to the perpetrators will or rebel and suffer stigmatization in addition to trauma. It most certainly does not "build character".

Trauma is debilitating. It inhibits growth and does not make anyone better. It's like you purposefully forget PTSD exists.

If this philosophy helps you, great, good for you. To me it is inherently suspicious, because it absolves abusers of all consequence and robs victims of any kind of justice or closure.

 

[Riu]

People who dont suffer tend to objectively be happier than those who do suffer. That is a fact. In fact suffering is what leads many to CTB (commit suicide). Also, praising people who are suffering and staying alive is a slap in the face to those who suffer and CTB. You are in effect calling them weak.

Honestly, this is pure copium at best.

There is no person who does not suffer.

Who are you!? Claudia Wolf?
↓

What do you mean? I agree with that, sympathy is achieved through experiencing the same things. I think the kindest people are people who have suffered a great deal.

People who dont suffer tend to objectively be happier than those who do suffer. That is a fact. In fact suffering is what leads many to CTB (commit suicide). Also, praising people who are suffering and staying alive is a slap in the face to those who suffer and CTB. You are in effect calling them weak.

Honestly, this is pure copium at best.

I don't mean to praise suffering in any way, sorry if it came off that way. What I really mean is that it can be a motivator for people who still want to live to keep going. I think CTB is not a bad thing, I don't really think there is any point to living. The only reason I want to live is because I want to experience my life and see what will become of it. I think that if we used suffering in a way that motivates us, we can use it as fuel to improve, no?

Bullying is a dominance display, same as harassment, rape or abuse. It is specifically designed to entrap victims to either submit to the perpetrators will or rebel and suffer stigmatization in addition to trauma. It most certainly does not "build character".

Trauma is debilitating. It inhibits growth and does not make anyone better. It's like you purposefully forget PTSD exists.

If this philosophy helps you, great, good for you. To me it is inherently suspicious, because it absolves abusers of all consequence and robs victims of any kind of justice or closure.

That is true, I guess I was thinking only about the suffering caused by our own mishaps. If you think about the suffering caused by others, the only thing you really gain is empathy.

I guess my point only stands when it comes to suffering caused by ourselves, not others.

Thank you for giving me this perspective instead of insulting me without any kind of helpful criticism.

Suffering can have so many individual reasons what an individual does not or cannot bear any more. TRUE!!!


Yes suffering may want you to change things if you know what should change. But if this cannot be changed the way you wish for your suffering will not end at all.

I think that progress is not only moving forward/up. When progress is made, normally there are ups and downs. I don't think only good change is possible, but that doesn't mean change is bad. I think to be ever changing is the best way to find the best solution to our problems.

 

[josephk]

There is no person who does not suffer.

What do you mean? I agree with that, sympathy is achieved through experiencing the same things. I think the kindest people are people who have suffered a great deal.

I don't mean to praise suffering in any way, sorry if it came off that way. What I really mean is that it can be a motivator for people who still want to live to keep going. I think CTB is not a bad thing, I don't really think there is any point to living. The only reason I want to live is because I want to experience my life and see what will become of it. I think that if we used suffering in a way that motivates us, we can use it as fuel to improve, no?

That is true, I guess I was thinking only about the suffering caused by our own mishaps. If you think about the suffering caused by others, the only thing you really gain is empathy.

I guess my point only stands when it comes to suffering caused by ourselves, not others.

Thank you for giving me this perspective instead of insulting me without any kind of helpful criticism.

I think that progress is not only moving forward/up. When progress is made, normally there are ups and downs. I don't think only good change is possible, but that doesn't mean change is bad. I think to be ever changing is the best way to find the best solution to our problems.

i dont think there is a right or wrong answer on this. I think it comes down to temperament. There are some who no matter what life throws at them will see something positive in it. Thomas Ligotti calls these people part of the "cult of grinning martyrs" and i have some sympathy with this view. I dont see any possible positive interpretation on the trauma i went through. But ive no doubt there are people that would have flourished despite it, and good for them. Theres no doubt its better for you if you are a positive type. Personally ive gone through trying the positive outlook but I felt that I was lying to myself. My response has been an attitude of sullen resignation & putting my two fingers up to life (not that it cares) but if you can react to adversity with optimism and resilience then you will be happier for it

 

[Riu]

i dont think there is a right or wrong answer on this. I think it comes down to temperament. There are some who no matter what life throws at them will see something positive in it. Thomas Ligotti calls these people part of the "cult of grinning martyrs" and i have some sympathy with this view. I dont see any possible positive interpretation on the trauma i went through. But ive no doubt there are people that would have flourished despite it, and good for them. Theres no doubt its better for you if you are a positive type. Personally ive gone through trying the positive outlook but I felt that I was lying to myself. My response has been an attitude of sullen resignation & putting my two fingers up to life (not that it cares) but if you can react to adversity with optimism and resilience then you will be happier for it

I appreciate you taking the time to write this reply. I understand and respect how you decide to view your trauma. I'm sorry if I offended or hurt anyone with my original post about suffering and the possible positives that can be derived from it. I was merely trying to show others how even something like suffering could be a good thing. I can understand if others don't feel the same way as I do, and I think I have learned more through discussing with the other users here.

Thank you all for taking your time to discuss with me. Unless you insulted me with no real criticism, then that's just rude.

 

[josephk]

I appreciate you taking the time to write this reply. I understand and respect how you decide to view your trauma. I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my original post about suffering and the possible positives that can be derived from it. I was merely trying to show others how even something like suffering could be a good thing. I can understand if others don't feel the same way as I do, and I think I have learned more through discussing with the other users here.

Thank you all for taking your time to discuss with me. Unless you insulted me with no real criticism, then that's just rude.

You certainly didn't offend me. I envy people that are resilient. I wish I could find meaning in my suffering. I've had counselling, CBT , hypnotherapy etc but I just can't do it. Best wishes

 

[Celerity]

I understand where you are coming from, OP, though I also get where your critics take issue with your perspective. To echo what you have said earlier, I think your main point is that suffering is an inevitable experience and that the best we can do is try to learn what we can from it when that is possible. Of course, not all suffering (maybe even most) doesn't offer a teachable moment and not every piece of learning requires mistakes or suffering to achieve, but the two are often intertwined.

Years after I made some very serious mistakes in life, I have realized that I had to make those mistakes and suffer the consequences to understand where I went wrong. I know others right now at this very moment who made the same mistakes, but because of happier circumstances and better luck, they have not had to examine the flaws in their motives and values. They may never see how the choices they have made created needless suffering for themselves and do not actually align with what they really want from life.

Hitting rock bottom makes you turn over everything you have ever done and everything you think about doing. It can be a long, confusing, and excruciating process. I am still probably not done and may never be done. I also don't know any other way I could have learned what I did being born in the circumstances in which I was raised and having grown up the way I did. The failure was inevitable. Warped expectations were always going to clash with concrete reality. I could learn from it and suffer, or I could continue on the bad path I was on and suffer even more.

 

[Riu]

I understand where you are coming from, OP, though I also get where your critics take issue with your perspective. To echo what you have said earlier, I think your main point is that suffering is an inevitable experience and that the best we can do is try to learn what we can from it when that is possible. Of course, not all suffering (maybe even most) doesn't offer a teachable moment and not every piece of learning requires mistakes or suffering to achieve, but the two are often intertwined.

Years after I made some very serious mistakes in life, I have realized that I had to make those mistakes and suffer the consequences to understand where I went wrong. I know others right now at this very moment who made the same mistakes, but because of happier circumstances and better luck, they have not had to examine the flaws in their motives and values. They may never see how the choices they have made created needless suffering for themselves and do not actually align with what they really want from life.

Hitting rock bottom makes you turn over everything you have ever done and everything you think about doing. It can be a long, confusing, and excruciating process. I am still probably not done and may never be done. I also don't know any other way I could have learned what I did being born in the circumstances in which I was raised and having grown up the way I did. The failure was inevitable. Warped expectations were always going to clash with concrete reality. I could learn from it and suffer, or I could continue on the bad path I was on and suffer even more.

Amazing, and another point I really wanted to make is that uncomfortably can be motivating and it makes life less boring.

I think a lot of people are afraid to make mistakes and fail, including myself and I think that's just a bad way to go about things. We should learn as much as we can from other people's mistakes, and after that we need to get our own hands dirty. I used to not try anything and waste so much time thinking about solutions when sometimes the best solution is to just try and see what works. As long as you play it out smart, making mistakes is never a bad thing. Having setbacks is inevitable. Especially if you're young, I think it's best to just do things, make mistakes, and fail as much as you can because failure is what creates success.

I don't know if this even relates to what we were talking about, but it just came to mind while thinking about it.