Discussion Hypothetical: would you willingly kill...

[MEoDP]

a stranger(or even friends/family)who tries to stop you when you're going to CTB and you've now gained the absolute determination to go through with it?

I ask this question because I remember reading in one of the books written by a trustworthy self-defense instructor(Rory Miller)who lots of experience with violent criminals has said that someone who is truly,absolutely determined to do themselves in(as in,enough so to willingly resort to the scarier and painful methods as long as it gets the job done)has already also developed the will to kill anyone who tries to interfere,making talking down such individuals potentially very dangerous. (Although he's said that he has talked down a few people like that before)

I'd certainly like to ask if you think you'd be in that state of mind in such circumstances.

 

[Ben]

a stranger(or even friends/family)who tries to stop you when you're going to CTB and you've now gained the absolute determination to go through with it?

I ask this question because I remember reading in one of the books written by a trustworthy self-defense instructor(Rory Miller)who lots of experience with violent criminals has said that someone who is truly,absolutely determined to do themselves in(as in,enough so to willingly resort to the scarier and painful methods as long as it gets the job done)has already also developed the will to kill anyone who tries to interfere,making talking down such individuals potentially very dangerous. (Although he's said that he has talked down a few people like that before)

I'd certainly like to ask if you think you'd be in that state of mind in such circumstances.

Absolutely not. If you want to die, there are ZERO reasons to take somebody else with you. Tell them they saved you and go off and do your thing while they pat their back.

 

[MEoDP]

Absolutely not. If you want to die, there are ZERO reasons to take somebody else with you. Tell them they saved you and go off and do your thing while they pat their back.

Remember that "interfering" isn't just limited to being attempted to talked down. They could also be people who are actively trying to call the authorities and force you into the psych ward.

I'm not saying I'd do it,but I can understand someone being willing to kill if the so-called hero is trying to do such a thing.

 

[throwaway123]

I think this guy should stick to self-defense courses. He has no idea about human psychology. No one here would ever kill someone. Killing yourself and killing someone else are two completely different things.

 

[Tiburcio]

Nah, they have pain enough with their shit lifes.

 

[Ben]

Remember that "interfering" isn't just limited to being attempted to talked down. They could also be people who are actively trying to call the authorities and force you into the psych ward.

I'm not saying I'd do it,but I can understand someone being willing to kill if the so-called hero is trying to do such a thing.

I do not understand that at all. Nobody can stop you from taking your life, they can only make it less convenient for you, which in no way shape or form is reason to kill them. They have to die because you wanted to die in your room with your things and couldn't jump from a bridge or something? That would just mean you only want to die if the circumstances are in your favour.

 

[MEoDP]

I think this guy should stick to self-defense courses. He has no idea about human psychology. No one here would ever kill someone. Killing yourself and killing someone else are two completely different things.

to be fair,a huge chunk of his experience is in dealing with bad/evil criminals(even bad people can become suicidal)and so his conclusions may be because of that. those kinds of people would kill you if you tried thwarting their attempt.

 

[MEoDP]

I do not understand that at all. Nobody can stop you from taking your life, they can only make it less convenient for you, which in no way shape or form is reason to kill them. They have to die because you wanted to die in your room with your things and couldn't jump from a bridge or something? That would just mean you only want to die if the circumstances are in your favour.

Being forced into the psych ward would put a huge dent into your plans however. I've heard horror stories about it,and you'll probably be forced to spend a lot of time inside before you're released.

In the end however,you're correct. you can still make the attempt after. You'll just have to lie and pretend until you're released from the psych ward.

 

[throwaway123]

to be fair,a huge chunk of his experience is in dealing with bad/evil criminals(even bad people can become suicidal)and so his conclusions may be because of that. those kinds of people would kill you if you tried thwarting their attempt.

I don't think you can call that "suicide". Criminals who kill themselves do it because they want to escape the consequences of their actions(prison, social stigma when sexual assault or pedophilia etc.....) . We kill ourselves because we want to escape pain. That's a huge difference.

 

[Ben]

Being forced into the psych ward would put a huge dent into your plans however. I've heard horror stories about it,and you'll probably be forced to spend a lot of time inside before you're released.

In the end however,you're correct. you can still make the attempt after. You'll just have to lie and pretend until you're released from the psych ward.

Of course being locked up would make it harder. We can't go around killing people that make our lives harder. That is unless that person is ourself

 

[bigj75]

honestly I would knock them out or push them down and then ctb before they get back up to stop me. But i would not kill them.

 

[jaemus12]

I wouldn't.

Maybe by accident it may happen like if they were trying to stop me from jumping off a cliff and I accidentally push them off. I would feel terrible, but if it happens, it's an accident. I would never purposely kill someone else for trying to stop me. I'd hate them and never talk to them again though.

 

[MEoDP]

I don't think you can call that "suicide". Criminals who kill themselves do it because they want to escape the consequences of their actions(prison, social stigma when sexual assault or pedophilia etc.....) . We kill ourselves because we want to escape pain. That's a huge difference.

Insightful comment. The action is the same,but there's a world of difference in the intention.

 

[Caustic Cardinals]

a stranger(or even friends/family)who tries to stop you when you're going to CTB and you've now gained the absolute determination to go through with it?

I ask this question because I remember reading in one of the books written by a trustworthy self-defense instructor(Rory Miller)who lots of experience with violent criminals has said that someone who is truly,absolutely determined to do themselves in(as in,enough so to willingly resort to the scarier and painful methods as long as it gets the job done)has already also developed the will to kill anyone who tries to interfere,making talking down such individuals potentially very dangerous. (Although he's said that he has talked down a few people like that before)

I'd certainly like to ask if you think you'd be in that state of mind in such circumstances.

for stopping from ctb no way.
for cutting me off in traffic FUCKING KILL THEM

 

[MEoDP]

honestly I would knock them out or push them down and then ctb before they get back up to stop me. But i would not kill them.

I see myself doing the same thing,to be honest. I wouldn't kill someone for trying to call the authorities on me for trying to CTB,but I can certainly see myself going physical and trying to incapacitate them.

 

[bigj75]

maybe have a gun and tell them to leave or you will shoot them. But not really shoot. They would leave.

 

[Ssname]

For me absolutely not. I harbour no ill will against the world and don't want to hurt anyone. If I decide to ctb it is to remove myself from the world. I wouldn't want to take anyone with me.

 

[Clover]

Absolutely not.
Regardless of what anyone did to me I could not hurt anyone.
I would simply postpone.

 

[TAW122]

I would do my absolute best to avoid direct casualties, and that includes avoiding detection if possible, but if someone tries to stop me and knowing that I will not be able to have another opportunity again in the future, then yes I would stop them from trying to stop me. If people (referring to the majority of them) are not willing to respect my right and choice to die, then why should I respect their right and choice to live? Morally, in this situation, I would do what is necessary to avoid hurting them, but if they do get hurt, then I consider that collateral damage.

For example, (this is very unlikely to happen but just for the sake of argument) if I had a gun and was about to shoot myself and someone was charging at me, then I wouldn't hesitate to turn the gun on them, which of course (in the moment) sounds like self-defense as they are charging at me to try to stop me. I would do everything that I can to avoid being in this situation in the first place though. Also, I don't consider going for revenge against them after the fact, it's just that during the attempt I will defend my choice to die (sorta like self-defense), with force if necessary.

Edit: For clarification, I would do what I can to avoid being put in that situation but in the heat of the moment as well as protecting myself, I would do so in a defensive manner rather than offensive. Chances are, it would probably be faster to pull the trigger when the firearm is trained on myself rather than aim at them. I would not just go for revenge against them, but only to protect my own autonomy and prevent them from trying to save me.

 

[akosineenee]

No. I maybe fucked up but not that much.

 

[Morning Angel]

I have already broken a law or two in my efforts to die, so I would say I'm willing to break more. But killing is going too far.

 

[Trashcan]

No. I'd be very mad but I wouldn't kill someone else.

 

[DetachedDreamer97]

I'd fight viciously and hurt and try to incapacitate them, if I happened to kill, then it wpuld be accidental.

 

[MEoDP]

I would do my absolute best to avoid direct casualties, and that includes avoiding detection if possible, but if someone tries to stop me and knowing that I will not be able to have another opportunity again in the future, then yes I would stop them from trying to stop me. If people (referring to the majority of them) are not willing to respect my right and choice to die, then why should I respect their right and choice to live? Morally, in this situation, I would do what is necessary to avoid hurting them, but if they do get hurt, then I consider that collateral damage.

For example, (this is very unlikely to happen but just for the sake of argument) if I had a gun and was about to shoot myself and someone was charging at me, then I wouldn't hesitate to turn the gun on them, which of course (in the moment) sounds like self-defense as they are charging at me to try to stop me. I would do everything that I can to avoid being in this situation in the first place though. Also, I don't consider going for revenge against them after the fact, it's just that during the attempt I will defend my choice to die (sorta like self-defense), with force if necessary.

Edit: For clarification, I would do what I can to avoid being put in that situation but in the heat of the moment as well as protecting myself, I would do so in a defensive manner rather than offensive. Chances are, it would probably be faster to pull the trigger when the firearm is trained on myself rather than aim at them. I would not just go for revenge against them, but only to protect my own autonomy and prevent them from trying to save me.

Oh,absolutely. I wasn't talking about revenge attempts or killing someone out of malice,but about someone who is trying to stop you in that exact moment you're going to CTB.

If I'm to be perfectly honest,while I wouldn't intentionally try to kill someone trying to stop me,I'd certainly do my best to incapacitate them(only if they were trying to physically accost me or call the authorities,that is. If they are just trying to talk to me,I'll just pretend to be talked down and attempt at another time),although that may result in accidental casualties. I agree with you that if someone doesn't respect your right to die enough to outright try to accost or call the authorities,you have no moral obligation to respect their right to live anymore. (once again,I wouldn't intentionally try to kill,but I might accidentally end up doing so)

Of course,I would do everything in my power to avoid such a messy situation to begin with. Thanks for your honesty.

 

[MEoDP]

I'd fight viciously and hurt and try to incapacitate them, if I happened to kill, then it wpuld be accidental.

Thanks for your honesty,I'm somewhat in the same boat as you.

 

[MEoDP]

maybe have a gun and tell them to leave or you will shoot them. But not really shoot. They would leave.

I'd say this is the case where "shooting them in the leg" (its a shitty tactic for self-defense,but its actually useful in this case for scaring away the would-be rescuer)is actually a good response if they trying playing tough or calling our bluff.