How would incels be perceived today if instead of going down the path of hate, they were kind and solely focused on ctb?

[Siamese Believe]

It's something I've been curious about. I by definition would be considered one. I'm ugly, short, virgin, etc. But I do not hate or wish harm on anyone.

Logically I feel the best solution to bad genetics is suicide. I cannot change my body. I can't make myself tall, handsome, good looking, smart, etc. So I'll just kill myself, simple as is.

I had no say in the body or life that I got. I could not consent to looking like this, I don't consider this body to define who I am because it's unfair.

No amount of suffering you could cause others would ever make them physically attracted to you, it won't make people like, desire, or love you. It's pointless violence and hate.

 

[artificialpasta]

if instead of going down the path of hate, they were kind

Then they wouldn't be incels... incel doesn't literally just mean a male virgin, it's a belief system that says "it's women's fault I can't have sex"

 

[Szarur-abi]

It's something I've been curious about. I by definition would be considered one. I'm ugly, short, virgin, etc. But I do not hate or wish harm on anyone.

Logically I feel the best solution to bad genetics is suicide. I cannot change my body. I can't make myself tall, handsome, good looking, smart, etc. So I'll just kill myself, simple as is.

I had no say in the body or life that I got. I could not consent to looking like this, I don't consider this body to define who I am because it's unfair.

No amount of suffering you could cause others would ever make them physically attracted to you, it won't make people like, desire, or love you. It's pointless violence and hate.

tbh probably noone would hear of them if they werent producing mass murderers at factory speed. Also it used to be different i mean, the first incel ideas were formulated by a single woman in the 90s or early 2000s and they werent violent and well known.

But it have been hijacked or something along the way.

Also being lonely is shared human experience tbh. many people kill themself cause of broken heart (that usually just broke the last straw) or being chronically alone all day all life etc etc. and by all accounts society at large puts individual responsbility on such persons. Or just dont care at all, so in anology if incels werent currently a hatred filled online space that sparks violence from time to time then it would probably go mostly unnoticed.

 

[heydude56]

"Best solution to bad genetics is suicide"
Never agreed more

 

[Szarur-abi]

Essentially this. Well yea it would be better for everyone who struggles in relations if this catched on instead of what we got.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Difficult to know really. If we look at the groups/ traits of people most prone to suicide country by country- is all that much being done to help them? Probably not- if the rates of suicide are still high. Are the disabled thought any more highly of because some choose to die? Are people admired for self harming, rather than harming others? No- they're just seen as crazy.

Sometimes, a group of people in a certain area all commiting suicide can draw attention to problems there. Lack of jobs, lack of healthcare or mental healthcare support etc.

Maybe vast quantities of incels killing themselves may make sociologists start writing essays of the affects of modern life on men. I'm not sure it would influence culture so much to make women find all types of men equally attractive though- if that's the hope. Anymore than men find all types of women attractive.

I usually find saying that tends to result in the argument that men's standards are lower- at least for casual sex. I wonder truly how enamoured they'd be with only being offered sex though- along with possible STD's, pregnancy and being left to raise the child alone. All of which I've known women to experience when they got 'lucky'.

In regards to perception though, if they didn't have such a reputation and weren't actually misogynistic, they'd likely generate more feelings of sympathy I expect. As it is, it's more like hate and resentment flying in all directions- in certain cases. Again- not all.

I'd also agree with the above member that- part- but obviously not all of the issue putting women off them is that they can sense the hate, disgruntlement and resentment they feel towards women in general. So, without that, their character would be more attractive. So- they may not be a hateful incel or lonely incel to begin with that way. Not every man dating is drop dead gorgeous, six foot tall or enormously wealthy. Not all women are solely fixated on those things. Although- the women they feel drawn to may well be of course.

 

[U. A.]

Then they wouldn't be incels... incel doesn't literally just mean a male virgin, it's a belief system that says "it's women's fault I can't have sex"

The thread can be closed now, nothing else had to be said after the first reply. @mods please

 

[itsgone2]

It's something I've been curious about. I by definition would be considered one. I'm ugly, short, virgin, etc. But I do not hate or wish harm on anyone.

It's sad so many on here recently seem to feel the same way.
Society seems almost impossible anymore. Like it's almost impossible to just be a normal person with a regular job you can count on.
I wish you didn't feel this way. Ultimately you sound like a kind person.

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

They could just be kind and focus on other things besides CTB. I've known a number of objectively VERY unattractive couples throughout my life, and they seem like some of the happiest & most solid couples I've met.

 

[Deepdense]

Your perception is your downfall.

 

[Dejected 55]

Here's a hot take... I think most incels are kind and shy and introverted and are depressed about being alone and don't know how to fix things.

BUT

The ones who make the news are the loud ones that are hateful and sometimes violent... like in all things, the worst examples of humanity seem to get the most air time. And over time "incel" came to be mostly associated with the loud horrible ones... and now everyone else has to hide even more because if they come out and try to speak to their depression and misery and whatnot, people jump to lump them in with the more vocal horrible ones.

People like to group things... so if 10 horrible people like Dungeons & Dragons, then D&D becomes a bad thing that must be shunned... if 10 horrible people are incels, then the other 50 get treated as if they are exactly the same.

What we should be doing is isolating the horrible people from the troubled people... and trying to listen and help the troubled ones while saying "fuck off" to the horrible ones... and stop letting horrible people dominate the news and information cycles and take over words and labels as their own and prevent everyone ekse from being able to use them.

There is no longer a kind acceptable way to talk about being involuntarily celibate without being labeled and lumped in with the "incel" movement of the bad people who monopolized the airways with their hate.

The same thing has happened with feminism too... The original feminist movement is sometimes hijacked by people who aren't feminists at all but use the word to be horrible. Proper feminists who just want equality and opportunity and to be heard sometimes struggle against the noise of the rare ones who are louder and easier to rail against as if they represent the entire movement.

Look at any marginalized group of people and you find a tendency of a small portion of them to be out of hand and not at all representative of the truth, but those few are louder and get the press and opposition to the legitimate movement also gets a scapegoat to put up as representative of them all and so continue to oppose the legitimate complaints of the others.

 

[deadngoresurgery]

tbh probably noone would hear of them if they werent producing mass murderers at factory speed. Also it used to be different i mean, the first incel ideas were formulated by a single woman in the 90s or early 2000s and they werent violent and well known.

But it have been hijacked or something along the way.

Also being lonely is shared human experience tbh. many people kill themself cause of broken heart (that usually just broke the last straw) or being chronically alone all day all life etc etc. and by all accounts society at large puts individual responsbility on such persons. Or just dont care at all, so in anology if incels werent currently a hatred filled online space that sparks violence from time to time then it would probably go mostly unnoticed.

Agreed. They're in an echo chamber where they affirm each others ideas and beliefs.

 

[WhatCouldHaveBeen32]

Someone already said this, they wouldn't be incels.

If anything they'd just be people who kill themselves because... *checks notes* they don't want to diet and workout for 2 years to off set 'bad genetics'. Which is a weird thing to do but I don't judge...? I guess?

Just seems somewhat stupid if all your problems are that you are below average looking. A haircut, a sense of style and 2 years of dieting and working out will put you WAY above the average and you will be physically healthy for yourself, better to live in a healthy body than a dumpster.

"Lack" of generic intelligence (programming, language learning, math, chemistry, physics) can be honed into physical skills like guitar, cooking, baking, knitting... Hell, if you can diet or work out you've already learned 2 skills that might attract someone who like you would be considered (by themselves) below average and wants to get better (in the eyes of society and their own). What will attract them to you will not be your looks but your desire to improve, you would share a common interest.

Like c'mon. Someone else already said it, your perception is your downfall.

You can't make yourself tall and that's it, the rest are in your control.

When I was presenting as a boy/man, I got asked out a couple of times. I refused (I'm aromantic asexual) but know that at the time I wasn't working out, I wasn't dieting and I am 160cm (since I was 14). I even asked why because we were colleagues at the time and the answer that I got in like 3 or 4 cases was that I was kind to them and they wished someone like that was present in their lives. I obviously stayed friends/acquaintances (with whom I could) until we parted ways in our adult lives.

Now that doesn't mean it's a guarantee everytime but that was my experience.

 

[rs929]

Don't forget "incel" is also used as a derogatory term. It's basically an excuse to hate any heterocis boy/man that doesn't agree with the hegemonic agenda

 

[artificialpasta]

Here's a hot take... I think most incels are kind and shy and introverted and are depressed about being alone and don't know how to fix things.

BUT

The ones who make the news are the loud ones that are hateful and sometimes violent... like in all things, the worst examples of humanity seem to get the most air time. And over time "incel" came to be mostly associated with the loud horrible ones... and now everyone else has to hide even more because if they come out and try to speak to their depression and misery and whatnot, people jump to lump them in with the more vocal horrible ones.

People like to group things... so if 10 horrible people like Dungeons & Dragons, then D&D becomes a bad thing that must be shunned... if 10 horrible people are incels, then the other 50 get treated as if they are exactly the same.

What we should be doing is isolating the horrible people from the troubled people... and trying to listen and help the troubled ones while saying "fuck off" to the horrible ones... and stop letting horrible people dominate the news and information cycles and take over words and labels as their own and prevent everyone ekse from being able to use them.

There is no longer a kind acceptable way to talk about being involuntarily celibate without being labeled and lumped in with the "incel" movement of the bad people who monopolized the airways with their hate.

An incel isn't just literally just someone who is a lonely male who is "involuntarily celibate", it's someone who adopts an ideology about how the world works. So whether they've taken violent action or not, the problem is the belief itself: some men are doomed because women are gatekeeping sex. If one doesn't share that belief, then he isn't an incel.

The same thing has happened with feminism too... The original feminist movement is sometimes hijacked by people who aren't feminists at all but use the word to be horrible. Proper feminists who just want equality and opportunity and to be heard sometimes struggle against the noise of the rare ones who are louder and easier to rail against as if they represent the entire movement.

Not analogous. Yes there are insane feminists but the core of feminism isn't problematic the way incel, by definition, is.

 

[whocaresnobodycares]

Well, I'm sure there's variations of what I'm gonna say above (sorry to be lazy, but it's after midnight here and I'm sleeping soon), but by definition an "incel" is involuntarily celibate-- they WANT to screw but there's no takers, as it were..... so that includes ALL KINDA of people, of every philosophical spectrum or politeness-level. I'm "incel" to a degree, but then I gave up trying OR looking.

I can tell you this for sure-- just because you've had sex with 1, 10, 100, or 1000 people DOES NOT MEAN you EVER will again. Anyone who says "People can sense the confidence on you" is being stupid and mystical about it. That's bullshit. OF COURSE confidence is important, but you can be cocky as ALL hell and still be as sexy as a turnip, to use a Lester-Bangsism

 

[artificialpasta]

Well, I'm sure there's variations of what I'm gonna say above (sorry to be lazy, but it's after midnight here and I'm sleeping soon), but by definition an "incel" is involuntarily celibate-- they WANT to screw but there's no takers, as it were..... so that includes ALL KINDA of people, of every philosophical spectrum or politeness-level. I'm "incel" to a degree, but then I gave up trying OR looking.

Yes incel is a portmanteau of "involuntary celibate" but that doesn't mean everyone who is involuntarily celibate is an incel. That's like saying an American is literally anyone from the Americas because it's in the name, or that the DPRK (North Korea) is democratic because the D stands for democratic. Just consider the obvious case: there are infertile men, men who have lost motor control over their body, and so on who do not identify as incels and live happy and fulfilling lives.

So, again, incels are not just lonely male virgins, they are a subculture/movement of men who believe that a) they are doomed not to have sex again because of factors outside of their control and b) "women gatekeeping sex" is one of those factors. If you do not identify or sympathize with that belief then you are not an incel, it's as simple as that.