How to make them understand that there is no choice?

[RottenApple]

First of all, I don't know if I will ctb, I will take that decision when I have all of the information I need to make a rational decision.

But if I do, it's difficult for me to see it as a decision, I mean, the alternative to suicide is a future of meaningless suffering, therefore I have no choice.
How could I make understand this to my family? To be honest, it would help me to reduce my feelings of guilt. It would be much easier if I was alone and no one cared about me, but it's not the case and the idea of ruining my family's life, especially my mother, is the only thing that makes me feel bad about ctb.

 

[Meditation guide]

You may not be able to make them understand. It's just the way it is. People never do understand it seems, until they themselves are in the same bad situation.

 

[WornOutLife]

My conclusion is that non-suicidal people will never understand us.
They might try to, but in the end, they can't comprehend why on earth a human being would want to take their own life away and not enjoy this "beautiful and worthy" life, which as many of you know, it's not like that at all.

I've given up on making my family and friends understand.

I'll just leave some goodbye letters and maybe videos telling them how much I love them and how happy I'm with this decision and that's it.

 

[Tired_Tired]

It's difficult for your family to accept your decision if your CTB is not legal. There always has choice if you can suffer all until you die naturally. There also has the other problem "medical bill" if your family are not so rich.

 

[Deleted member 22624]

Talk to them! Like about the principles of euthanasia, it takes a bit of time to get people up to speed on the arguments but people can actually be sympathetic if they've had any degree of serious pain themselves, enough for them to imagine a life filled with it not worth living. It doesn't make it easy, but it does make it easier

 

[SuicidallyCurious]

It's difficult for your family to accept your decision if your CTB is not legal. There always has choice if you can suffer all until you die naturally. There also has the other problem "medical bill" if your family are not so rich.

Yes this comment is perfectly accurate. Most young people will not have life insurance or significant assets so especially for the young who CTB they will be saddled with the funeral / gravestone costs which in some cultures can run into tens of thousands

 

[140 bpm]

They won't understand. I remember myself 5 years ago, I just couldn't even think about it. Nature of suicide was like a whole another planet for me.

- It's just doesn't make sense, why would you take your life (that's what my thought those times could look like).

I guess, I didn't face real problems yet on that moment and PTSD wasn't my best friend yet.
So it takes time and very personal reasons to realize, that non existence feels actually better than this groundhog day in a bucket full of shit. You just never able to feel what's going on in other person's mind to accept it.

 

[greebo6]

You can only try and help people to understand but you can't make anybody understand.
So if you do try your best but people still don't get it that's all you can do.
Its not your fault but you would have the knowledge that you did at least try.

 

[Buffy5120]

First of all, I don't know if I will ctb, I will take that decision when I have all of the information I need to make a rational decision.
They might try to, but in the end, they can't comprehend why on earth a human being would want to take their own life away and not enjoy this "beautiful and worthy" life, which as many of you know, it's not like that at all.

I've given up on making my family and friends understand.

I'll just leave some goodbye letters and maybe videos telling them how much I love them and how happy I'm with this decision and that's it.

crazy i was just thinking about this now then bam come on here and you pretty much sum it up perfectly

They won't understand. I remember myself 5 years ago, I just couldn't even think about it. Nature of suicide was like a whole another planet for me.

- It's just doesn't make sense, why would you take your life (that's what my thought those times could look like).

I guess, I didn't face real problems yet on that moment and PTSD wasn't my best friend yet.
So it takes time and very personal reasons to realize, that non existence feels actually better than this groundhog day in a bucket full of shit. You just never able to feel what's going on in other person's mind to accept it.

We are going through the legit same my friend. I too was once ignorant about people that deal with chronic diseases and illness and didnt actualy know life can really go to shit at given moment in your life. You never really know until it interferes with your own life.

 

[Deleted member 22624]

You never really know until it interferes with your own life.

And then after that, just the fear of things reaching that point again is enough to want to ctb

 

[sourpink]

the majority of people simply won't have the ability to understand on any level near where we'd feel heard. personally I don't see any point in trying to be listened to with such a great likelihood of the opposite of what I'd want happening. people will not understand. and honestly, good. I'm glad they can't comprehend that. if they cannot grasp our 'why' then that tends to mean they're gonna be all right and live their lives and not ctb themselves. I don't like the idea of burdening anyone with knowledge of my depths of struggles and I certainly don't wanna drag anyone down on my way out. so if people can't/won't get it, good for them. they'll probably learn how best to personally deal with whatever feelings they might have about my departure and basically be fine in time.
the only people who can truly understand are others who've been in similar places themselves. and as someone who's been in this suicidal limbo place as long as I have, I don't enjoy the thought of others having to cope with it and endure it in their own ways. an existence of self loathing and utter lack of any degree of contentment is not one I'd wish on anyone, nor does anyone deserve that. it can be very validating and comforting to feel truly heard and understood by another, but to some extent it's always kind of a bummer that they can relate.
so yeah, no. people won't understand. but that's probably in their best interest imo.
I'm probably gonna leave notes for those who matter. depending on the person, maybe they'll see my perspective. maybe they won't. but they don't need to. and if their lack of ability to understand means they can experience whatever happiness feels like, I'm ok with that.
I already tend to be pretty vocal about being pro choice with regard to all bodily autonomy, as well as my fervent desire to have absolutely no funeral or service of any kind. people close to me know my sense of humor and bringing up those topics casually isn't uncharacteristic of me.
ideally my wishes will be honored. it'd be most convenient anyway - I have essentially no money, so my disdain for any pomp and circumstance here means less fuss to worry about. green burials are very reasonable and just happen to be exactly what I want, with no service, no headstone, no embalming, just stick me under some trees and let the earth reclaim my decaying vessel. I'm not worried about costs with what I want being as minimally costly as it is.
what bothers me is that I know some people close to me already do understand, and when you get it, it can be that much harder to process. or easier. having had both experiences as a result of someone I know ctb'ing, I know it's possible the people I'm close to who understand this mentality might suffer more greatly than those who simply cannot comprehend my reasoning.
at least I won't be here to hear about any potential whining.

 

[Buffy5120]

the majority of people simply won't have the ability to understand on any level near where we'd feel heard. personally I don't see any point in trying to be listened to with such a great likelihood of the opposite of what I'd want happening. people will not understand. and honestly, good. I'm glad they can't comprehend that. if they cannot grasp our 'why' then that tends to mean they're gonna be all right and live their lives and not ctb themselves. I don't like the idea of burdening anyone with knowledge of my depths of struggles and I certainly don't wanna drag anyone down on my way out. so if people can't/won't get it, good for them. they'll probably learn how best to personally deal with whatever feelings they might have about my departure and basically be fine in time.
the only people who can truly understand are others who've been in similar places themselves. and as someone who's been in this suicidal limbo place as long as I have, I don't enjoy the thought of others having to cope with it and endure it in their own ways. an existence of self loathing and utter lack of any degree of contentment is not one I'd wish on anyone, nor does anyone deserve that. it can be very validating and comforting to feel truly heard and understood by another, but to some extent it's always kind of a bummer that they can relate.
so yeah, no. people won't understand. but that's probably in their best interest imo.
I'm probably gonna leave notes for those who matter. depending on the person, maybe they'll see my perspective. maybe they won't. but they don't need to. and if their lack of ability to understand means they can experience whatever happiness feels like, I'm ok with that.
I already tend to be pretty vocal about being pro choice with regard to all bodily autonomy, as well as my fervent desire to have absolutely no funeral or service of any kind. people close to me know my sense of humor and bringing up those topics casually isn't uncharacteristic of me.
ideally my wishes will be honored. it'd be most convenient anyway - I have essentially no money, so my disdain for any pomp and circumstance here means less fuss to worry about. green burials are very reasonable and just happen to be exactly what I want, with no service, no headstone, no embalming, just stick me under some trees and let the earth reclaim my decaying vessel. I'm not worried about costs with what I want being as minimally costly as it is.
what bothers me is that I know some people close to me already do understand, and when you get it, it can be that much harder to process. or easier. having had both experiences as a result of someone I know ctb'ing, I know it's possible the people I'm close to who understand this mentality might suffer more greatly than those who simply cannot comprehend my reasoning.
at least I won't be here to hear about any potential whining.

"I don't like the idea of burdening anyone with knowledge of my depths of struggles and I certainly don't wanna drag anyone down on my way out." I just wish it was the same for us like why cant people just let us be and do what we want we are not bothering anyone. It is our unbearable and disabling lives we are forced to live with, and want to live life to the fullest like they do, but mostly cant because its not that we dont want to, its because of our illnesses, so why do pro-lifers keep making things worse for us? They go out and live their lives to the fullest, but then are ignorant about how we live ours, and then when we want to ctb, they lie and say things to stop and interfere so they can feel better about themselves and label us as "not well", because they cant accept the fact that life can get really bad, they want to fanatasize that life will always be great to feel better about themselves. I bet no one here that wants to ctb now, ever wanted to be in this situation or to live like like this, but thats just what life is. Just wish pro-lifers would leave people who want to ctb alone and stop interfering with peaceful ways to ctb

 

[BitterlyAlive_]

Talk to them! Like about the principles of euthanasia, it takes a bit of time to get people up to speed on the arguments but people can actually be sympathetic if they've had any degree of serious pain themselves, enough for them to imagine a life filled with it not worth living.

Ah, my parents view euthanasia as murder so that wouldn't work at all. Lmao.

 

[RottenApple]

Talk to them! Like about the principles of euthanasia, it takes a bit of time to get people up to speed on the arguments but people can actually be sympathetic if they've had any degree of serious pain themselves, enough for them to imagine a life filled with it not worth living. It doesn't make it easy, but it does make it easier

I tried to have a similar conversation with my brother weeks ago but it didn't go well.

Thanks a lot for your answers, they have made me think about it and now I have fresh ideas about what to do about it, if I decide to ctb someday, I want it to be in the least painful way for my family (I know this is a difficult goal).

 

[sourpink]

"I don't like the idea of burdening anyone with knowledge of my depths of struggles and I certainly don't wanna drag anyone down on my way out." I just wish it was the same for us like why cant people just let us be and do what we want we are not bothering anyone. It is our unbearable and disabling lives we are forced to live with, and want to live life to the fullest like they do, but mostly cant because its not that we dont want to, its because of our illnesses, so why do pro-lifers keep making things worse for us? They go out and live their lives to the fullest, but then are ignorant about how we live ours, and then when we want to ctb, they lie and say things to stop and interfere so they can feel better about themselves and label us as "not well", because they cant accept the fact that life can get really bad, they want to fanatasize that life will always be great to feel better about themselves. I bet no one here that wants to ctb now, ever wanted to be in this situation or to live like like this, but thats just what life is. Just wish pro-lifers would leave people who want to ctb alone and stop interfering with peaceful ways to ctb

exactly.
live and let live. or die. not your life/body? not your choice, imo, and you should probably keep your unsolicited advice and platitudes to yourself.
I do to some degree envy that zest for life people who can't understand the appeal of suicide seem to have as a group. but I don't envy their ignorance. then again, the two seem to go hand in hand.
in any case, I'm glad something I said resonated with you or maybe felt validating for you. life isn't for everyone and that's just.. what it is. acceptance and understanding are beautiful things to find for those of us in this space. if anything I said was of any comfort, I'm glad I said it.
speaking only for myself here, more compassion is so needed.

 

[Wakawaka]

You likely won't make them understand, no one wants to be the person waiting for a loved one to die, to be constantly thinking "is this they're last text" or "is this the last time I'll see them", trying to word every conversation carefully because it might be the last thing they hear from you.

You can't convince people to go through that, and trying to might be a bit traumatic

 

[Buffy5120]

This pic

 

[Deleted member 22624]

You likely won't make them understand, no one wants to be the person waiting for a loved one to die, to be constantly thinking "is this they're last text" or "is this the last time I'll see them", trying to word every conversation carefully because it might be the last thing they hear from you.

You can't convince people to go through that, and trying to might be a bit traumatic

I think it maybe is more comfortable done in two stages, making it clear for the first that there's a period you definitely won't do it, it gives them time to prepare, time with the person where they aren't worrying if it's the last time they'll speak to them. That relatively normal sense of security gives time to talk less about the philosophy of suffering or whatever but increasingly closely the realities facing you and hence them. It's like we don't pressure kids while they're in education. Then after the sort of introduction phass ( why do I feel bad, honestly this is not meant to be demeaning, I can't think of how to rephrase. Stupid autism!! Couldn't have phrased it more offensively? ) we hopefully find someone who agrees with the right to die and naturally come to accept that if you go, you went because you were suffering so RIP. If someone is to Ctb I think this allows maximum levels of closure - that's all just gut instinct but it's all I've got. The second stage is the delay of uncertainty needed to absolve people you've told of responsibility for not replying you. They can't lock you up if you say you're planning to kill yourself in the next few years lol. Not ideal though because that's a long time to have people hanging on, it needs optimising from that figure

 

[Buffy5120]

Even people on facebook know pro-lifers are ignorant assholes

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

I wish I had an answer for you. I have incurable illnesses and my quality of life has been deteroriating since I was 17, yet people still feed me platitudes about there being hope and things getting better. Despite my insistence that I should have a choice in exiting this life, hardly anyone chooses to listen.

I have realized for a long time that people are quite paradoxical when it comes to euthanasia. If their pet is suffering with a terminal illness or any other condition that substantially decreased the animal's quality of life, they have no qualms asking the vet to put their beloved companion down, even if the loss is incredibly heartbreaking.

Yet there are people like me who suffer everyday for no reason other than to placate others, who still end up being hurt because my very existence is depressing, they don't want to deal with an extremely disabled person. They dont let me have a choice in whether I live or die. No matter how many times I tell people, especially my partner, that I want to seek out euthanasia at Dignitas or Pegasos, lest I have to ctb myself and risk failing, they act like I am insane.

Recently there was a case in the UK I believe where an older couple who both had suffered from many health problems since their 20s and spent a lot of time in psych wards, hell, I think they even met in a psychiatric ward, got approved for assisted suicide. They both had many chronic conditions, both mental and physical that were described in detail. Clearly a well documented rapport had been established before they were given permission for assisted suicide.

However, one of their children still thinks their parents decision to go out peacefully together was not only amoral, but that the euthanasia clinics should be prosecuted. Simply because he cannot accept his parents passing away. No matter how many logical arguments someone brings to the table, anti-choice proponents will always ignore and attack our viewpoint, because they operate solely on emotions.

Everyone knows that grieving is a torturous process. No one is saying it isn't. But it's sickening that the majority of people would rather their loved one suffer a horrible, pain ridden existence with no hope of improvement simply because they are unwilling to let go and consider the possibility that the person they care about has explored all other avenues and has decided catching the bus is their last resort when it comes to escaping the agony they are dealing with on a daily basis.

I have begged and pleaded for my partner to accept my desire to check out so that I will not be suffering everyday with chronic fatigue syndrome. No dice. No one respects my wish to die. I could shout my message from the rooftops, but the crowd might as well be deaf, because no one listens.

Hopefully one day it will be more accepted for people with dehabilitating conditions, both mental and physical, to be able to access services like dignitas, so that people can have honest conversations with their loved ones about ctb. I think it would actually prevent some people from going through with it, if we could have genuine, truthful, un-censored talks with others about our feelings, and not get treated like lunatics for expressing our view.

 

[Buffy5120]

I wish I had an answer for you. I have incurable illnesses and my quality of life has been deteroriating since I was 17, yet people still feed me platitudes about there being hope and things getting better. Despite my insistence that I should have a choice in exiting this life, hardly anyone chooses to listen.

I have realized for a long time that people are quite paradoxical when it comes to euthanasia. If their pet is suffering with a terminal illness or any other condition that substantially decreased the animal's quality of life, they have no qualms asking the vet to put their beloved companion down, even if the loss is incredibly heartbreaking.

Yet there are people like me who suffer everyday for no reason other than to placate others, who still end up being hurt because my very existence is depressing, they don't want to deal with an extremely disabled person. They dont let me have a choice in whether I live or die. No matter how many times I tell people, especially my partner, that I want to seek out euthanasia at Dignitas or Pegasos, lest I have to ctb myself and risk failing, they act like I am insane.

Recently there was a case in the UK I believe where an older couple who both had suffered from many health problems since their 20s and spent a lot of time in psych wards, hell, I think they even met in a psychiatric ward. They both had many chronic conditions, both mental and physical that were described in detail. Clearly a well documented rapport had been established before they were given permission for assisted suicide.

However, one of their children still thinks their parents decision to go out peacefully together was not only amoral, but that the euthanasia clinics should be prosecuted. Simply because he cannot accept his parents passing away. No matter how many logical arguments someone brings to the table, anti-choice proponents will always ignore and attack our viewpoint, because they operate solely on emotions.

Everyone knows that grieving is a torturous process. No one is saying it isn't. But it's sickening that the majority of people would rather their loved one suffer a horrible, pain ridden existence with no hope of improvement simply because they are unwilling to let go and consider the possibility that the person they care about has explored all other avenues and has decided catching the bus is their last resort when it comes to escaping the agony they are dealing with on a daily basis.

I have begged and pleaded for my partner to accept my desire to check out so that I will not be suffering everyday with chronic fatigue syndrome. No dice. No one respects my wish to die. I could shout my message from the rooftops, but the crowd might as well be deaf, because no one listens.

Hopefully one day it will be more accepted for people with dehabilitating conditions, both mental and physical, to be able to access services like dignitas, so that people can have honest conversations with their loved ones about ctb. I think it would actually prevent some people from going through with it, if we could have genuine, truthful, un-censored talks with others about our feelings, and not get treated like lunatics for expressing our view.

Yes everything your saying is 100% valid

 

[262653]

I think it's interesting how the family and close ones, people who seem to be the ones who would care about you the most, are likely to oppose you the most enthusiastically if you start considering suicide as an appealing alternative to life. A shift in fundamental objectives, and the closest allies may turn into the fiercest adversaries. Sort of like a relationship in which one party decides it's in its best interests to leave, the other party is likely not going to like it. There is a Russian proverb of a sort, loosely translated "hate is only one step away from love".

Have you ever played Skyrim and progressed through the main quest? I remember why Arngeir was advising the protagonist against learning Dragonrend shout. He said that to learn the shout is to take its essence into your heart, and to learn Dragonrend means to incorporate the same hatred and anger that people who created that shout have experienced. One has to hurt oneself, to put it simply.

Similarly, I think that to be acceptant of the right to recieve euthanasia for humans, one has to accept that humans can suffer so much that death seems to be a better alternative and even preferred to recieving other kinds of treatment, like meds, therapy, surgery, nutrition, detox, etc..

I'm also pretty sure that acceptance and denial are not the same thing. What seems to be true isn't always better for a person than to remain deluded or ignorant. Employing self-deception/delusion as an aegis from unpleasant ideas --> resistance towards anything that disrupts the aegis
I need more freedom of expression, sorry. How can you blame someone who tries to protect their own interests at the expense of others? It seems self-evident that people do/don't want to accept it because the alternative makes us/them feel bad... This is going nowhere, so whatever, but I won't allow my efforts to be in vain. Don't blame the lion from chasing you. Just run away XD

 

[lostmyhope]

I don't think there is a way to make them understand. I think it is very rare for people to ever accept that suicide was the right decision for someone they knew.

My job has morbid moments, so there have been occasions to casually discuss suicide with my coworkers. I have dropped my opinion, which is that it really is the best option for some people, and that it's sad that people get to the point where it's necessary, but that the death itself isn't sad. I don't think I've changed any minds but I hope that at least it will help them make sense of my death when it happens, despite not mentioning my personal struggles.