How long is resuscitation possible after death?

[15dec]

Also, how do doctors decide whether to attempt to revive after ctb? Like, if I was found dead would they still try and revive me or would they only attempt resuscitation if I was still alive when I was found? I've heard some people in non-ctb deaths have been revived hours after dying and I'd rather that not happen to me.

 

[gingerplum]

Also, how do doctors decide whether to attempt to revive after ctb? Like, if I was found dead would they still try and revive me or would they only attempt resuscitation if I was still alive when I was found? I've heard some people in non-ctb deaths have been revived hours after dying and I'd rather that not happen to me.

No doctor is involved unless you're already in the hospital. The EMS team makes that decision, and unless you're stone cold and rigor mortis has set in, they're probably required to at least attempt to revive you. To not try leaves them vulnerable to a lawsuit.

No one is revived "hours" after dying. Maybe hours after an injury or an attempt, but not after death.

There's a "Rule of Threes" that's easy to remember. Three minutes without oxygen, three days without water, three weeks without food.

 

[therhydler]

There's a "Rule of Threes" that's easy to remember. Three minutes without oxygen, three days without water, three weeks without food.

I wish I could hold my breath for 3 minutes and be dead

 

[NoOneKnows]

No doctor is involved unless you're already in the hospital. The EMS team makes that decision, and unless you're stone cold and rigor mortis has set in, they're probably required to at least attempt to revive you. To not try leaves them vulnerable to a lawsuit.

No one is revived "hours" after dying. Maybe hours after an injury or an attempt, but not after death.

There's a "Rule of Threes" that's easy to remember. Three minutes without oxygen, three days without water, three weeks without food.

but then how come they say - he was already dead for 10 mins and they manage to revive him?...if its up to 3 minutes max....im really confused here

 

[johnny]

If they have any remote shot at reviving you, I'm sure the first responders will try.

Anyone know anything about DNR? If you leave a note next to you saying "Do not resuscitate" with your signature and date on there, are first responders obligated to obey that? Or is a note like that legally worthless?

 

[muretax]

I used to volunteer as an EMT and there are many factors that would cause them to attempt to revive you. EMT's cannot declare you dead so their job is to do everything they can to save you before you get to the hospital. Even if you have no heart beat and you aren't breathing, they can't declare death until you are seen by a doctor. There are many cases where people are revived within 10 minutes of losing a heart beat or lung function. Your body can withstand ten minutes of loss of oxygen and loss of blood flow before serious brain and organ damage starts developing. If you're going to attempt in any way, give yourself a minimum of 20-30 minutes that'll guarantee you'll be dead. If medical personnel shows up and you have a very faint heart beat, you will survive. EMT's only job is to get you to the hospital alive so you can be treated and they're really good at it.

 

[muretax]

If they have any remote shot at reviving you, I'm sure the first responders will try.

Anyone know anything about DNR? If you leave a note next to you saying "Do not resuscitate" with your signature and date on there, are first responders obligated to obey that? Or is a note like that legally worthless?

I made a post about the DNR a while back. Without a legit, DNR formed signed by your physician the EMT's will ignore the DNR message.

 

[gingerplum]

but then how come they say - he was already dead for 10 mins and they manage to revive him?...if its up to 3 minutes max....im really confused here

Fair question. I may have been oversimplifying to avoid a very lengthy answer, but I found and article that explains it well.

It's complicated, yo.

Keep that 3 min isn't an absolute, it's an average. Brain death from anoxia can start in less than one minute, and by 5 it's generally complete. The article below states up to 10; I have issues with that. To see what 10 minutes of anoxia-- maybe even partial oxygen deprivation looks like-- see the thread about the 18 yr old who's mother "saved" him from hanging. He's got about 8 brain cells left.

When you hear, "revived after 10 minutes," my question would be, after 10 minutes of what? After 10 minutes of cardiac arrythmia, or arrest? After 10 minutes of pulseless electrical activity? After 10 minutes of respiratory arrest? Respiratory and cardiac arrest?

I think the most notable thing to point out here is that if someone is able to reliably state the number of minutes someone was clinically dead for, they were part of a team working to resuscitate that person. Otherwise, how would they know? CPR was being performed, compressions, respirations, O2, etc. Probably defibrillated (shocked). The works, including fluids and vasoconstrictors in a clinical setting.

The exception (as discussed in the article) are those cases involving severe hypothermia. The stories about people who fall thru thin ice and are successfully brought back 45 minutes later, due to the freezing conditions slowing down their metabolic needs to almost nothing.

This article does an excellent job deliniating the different scenarios as well as postulating different outcomes. My head was swimming with the different factors to consider about halfway thru:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/gizmod...have-to-stop-for-before-you-ca-1457981280/amp

 

[Shewaitsforme]

If they have any remote shot at reviving you, I'm sure the first responders will try.

Anyone know anything about DNR? If you leave a note next to you saying "Do not resuscitate" with your signature and date on there, are first responders obligated to obey that? Or is a note like that legally worthless?

If its just a note written by you unless there is no sign of life (in the UK the lifepak 15 will be used to get a trace of your heart to check if there is any sort of shockabke rythem) they will try to revive you. If your cold, rigor they wont. If youve been down over 10 minutes they more likely wont try to revive you, under 10 they will)

Sorry i digress, with just your note, possible signs of life they will attempt to revive as that note is not legally binding. A DNR has to be signed by a doctor and yourself, on a specific DNR forn that is recongnised (UK its a lilac colour) it has to be the ORIGINAL copy also so a photocopy of that lilac form is not suitable. If they didnt act based on your written note they are liabke for assisting in your suicide. The ambulance service here would rather you survive and sue (you wont win as they will say your mentally ill) than 'assist in your death' and be sued or sacked by the service. The role is to preserve life, prevent death and promote recovery. That legal DNR protects you from being saved and them from being sued. Also if you do get a DNR its just about the resusitation process there is another form that you need to specifically state exactly what treatment you dont want i.e no life saving medication, no fluids, no resusitation etc plus also on the form it would state why the DNR is grated. My end off life patients with a DNR the reason is co morbidities, frailty, progressive disease. Thats why i dont thing a DNR woukd be grated just for mental illness as it is as they say 'curable'

 

[Shewaitsforme]

Also, how do doctors decide whether to attempt to revive after ctb? Like, if I was found dead would they still try and revive me or would they only attempt resuscitation if I was still alive when I was found? I've heard some people in non-ctb deaths have been revived hours after dying and I'd rather that not happen to me.

They were not dead then. There is a difgerence between dead and clinically dead. Your not clinically dead untill there are absolutly no signs of life. In cases like that there was probably still activity in the brain. If a persons heart has stopped (only the heart) paramedics arrive in good time, CPR starts thats taking over the job of the heart, cardiac drugs used also. If no shockabke rythem returns they can call the death. If there is a shockable rythemor ROSC is achieved you are not dead. The brain has to be dead, motor functions stopped, no attempt from the body to start breathing again, no heart beat. All that has to be present. Of course there are cases where they wont do anything as it wouldnt save you ie trauma cases, too much blood loss if your still 'alive' they will just make you comfortable as they can and verdict massive irriversable blood loss

 

[Jen Erik]

Without a legit, DNR formed signed by your physician the EMT's will ignore the DNR message.

Even this can be iffy, though, as the authenticity of such a document has to be verified and that can take time.

 

[TAW122]

Speaking of DNR's, what others have said is true. EMTs and first responders oftenly ignore it for the fear of litigation and only in very specific cases where it is on record at the hospital and the EMTs know ahead of time, would they even consider honoring an DNR. In other words, it is better to be clinically dead before they arrive in order to make sure that your attempt is successful. If I was attempting I would never leave anything up to chance, not even 0.1% of being revived.

 

[Shewaitsforme]

Basically they arrive on scene, see the correct DNAR signed, you have died by some means expected (not suicide) as per condition on the from they will radio through to control, get and immediate call back (there is a button the the radio to skip the que) state patient is deseased and physical obs plus heart trace shows this (no shockable rythm found, the lifepack will verbally say commence CPR or no trace found) then you will be told to leave the patient be, a doctor or senior paramedic will come to confirm death.

In the case of suicide with a written note they will attempt to save you regardless aslong as it is deemed you still have a chance, even 1% chance if they dont they are helping you commit suicide.

Patients i transport to hospital to die or home to die via the ambulance, if they have the correct form we will just pull over if they die on route, if there is no form or just verbal 'i have a DNR' we have to inform them life saving treatment WILL be given if they go off on route as no form is present. Trust me my first patient, frail as fuck, barely alive we still put a tube down ti intubate, ready with the defib, drugs on the ready, got her to hospital doctor came said she would be dead in an hour but thanks. She had no DNR and even if she did unless it stated progressive swallowing issues, aspiration we would have stepped in as it would have been a cause outside whats stated on the form and some aspiration cases can be solved so she would have lived. Its not the ambulance staff decision to make unless there are CLEAR amd LEGAL reasons why

 

[15dec]

Thanks for all the really detailed replies. I guess the best thing for me is to wait until I have like, at least a good hour or two when I won't be discovered just to make chances of revival as slim as possible

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

Rescutitation is impossible after death. That's why it's called death.

I think you are confusing death with something like coma.

 

[Kdawg2018]

My aunt died at home basically, had faint heartbeat, was transported, they said they can work on her if my uncle wanted, but she had a DNR, they would have tried to work on her anyway...she was a nurse too

 

[Jiva]

Also, how do doctors decide whether to attempt to revive after ctb? Like, if I was found dead would they still try and revive me or would they only attempt resuscitation if I was still alive when I was found? I've heard some people in non-ctb deaths have been revived hours after dying and I'd rather that not happen to me.

Usually the resuscitation is possible maximally a few minutes after death. In special cases it is tens of minutes, if the body was in a cold environment (iced water).

 

[NotWorthLiving]

Resus is only possible a few minutes after you've flat lined and even then it is rare.

 

[Kingkelly]

No doctor is involved unless you're already in the hospital. The EMS team makes that decision, and unless you're stone cold and rigor mortis has set in, they're probably required to at least attempt to revive you. To not try leaves them vulnerable to a lawsuit.

No one is revived "hours" after dying. Maybe hours after an injury or an attempt, but not after death.

There's a "Rule of Threes" that's easy to remember. Three minutes without oxygen, three days without water, three weeks without food.

3 days without water?

 

[15dec]

Usually the resuscitation is possible maximally a few minutes after death. In special cases it is tens of minutes, if the body was in a cold environment (iced water).

Yeah I've seen similar stuff about low temperatures increasing chances of revival or something along those lines. I'm guessing being in a warm room will reduce chances?

 

[gingerplum]

3 days without water?

Again, not hard & fast rule, but a guideline... because "rule of threes" is easy to remember.

The maximum time an individual can go without water seems to be a week, an estimate that is based on observations of people at the end of their lives, when food and water intake has been stopped, Randall K. Packer, a professor of biology at George Washington University told Maggie Fox of NBC News in 2013.

But one week is a generous estimate. Three to four days would be more typical, especially in difficult conditions like broiling heat.

"You can go 100 hours without drinking at an average temperature outdoors," Claude Piantadosi of Duke University told Fox. "If it's cooler, you can go a little longer. If you are exposed to direct sunlight, it's less."


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.bu...any-days-can-you-survive-without-water-2014-5

 

[Jiva]

Yeah I've seen similar stuff about low temperatures increasing chances of revival or something along those lines. I'm guessing being in a warm room will reduce chances?

Probably yes.

 

[Shewaitsforme]

Yeah I've seen similar stuff about low temperatures increasing chances of revival or something along those lines. I'm guessing being in a warm room will reduce chances?

In low temperatures the body begins to reduce/shut down non essential processes. For instance normal respiration rate is between 12 to 20 resps (NEWS score which medics go on) if your hypothermic, not moving your body does not need as much O2 so respritation rate drops, heart rate drops, cell respiration drops. This can only be maintained for a length of time before that all starts to effect other body systems ie reduced blood flow to the brain, kidneys not filtering at an optimal rate. So yes, you can be saved if your 'warmed up' correctly, your not dead till your clinically dead

 

[Shewaitsforme]

Probably yes.

Yep some medical procedures they will actually induce the patient into a hypothermic state in order to save the person. Crazy but can work

 

[Jiva]

Yep some medical procedures they will actually induce the patient into a hypothermic state in order to save the person. Crazy but can work

Here the contrary is suitable.