Discussion How is this possible? 2 teens CTB'd in a psyche ward using plastic bags

[hell toupee]

I came across an article last night about some parents who are trying to get a teen psyche ward to remove all plastic bags.

What happened was a girl committed ctb simply by putting a plastic bag over her head.

Then, about 8 months later, another teen, a boy this time, did the same exact thing.

How is it possible that 2 teenagers ctb'd this way on separated occasions? I could understand if they might've had some help - like someone is literally killing them while holding the bag in place as the victim tries to rip it off their head, but this is not the case.

How is it possible that a couple of teenagers had the willpower to do that? They were teens in a psyche ward - if they were on the street I would think that they did this in combination with some type of drug - I believe this is how the Final Exit book used to suggest for older people - take some medication that knocks you out and pass out with a a large bag over your head so the hypercapnia isn't immediate.

I can't believe that a couple of teenagers had the willpower to do that.

Has anyone heard of this story? It made headlines not because of the CTB's, but because after the 2nd death parents were trying to get the facility to remove all plastic bags.

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

I went to a psych ward as a teen/pre-teen. There are a lot of teens with psychotic disorders/symptoms there.

My only attempt was years later at 17 (not in a psych ward), during what was essentially a psychotic break. Slashed my wrist with a deeply serrated knife multiple times. If I hadn't had it wrestled out of my grip, I would have done more. I even tried to stab the person saving me.

Safe to say, you can extrapolate from there. I absolutely believe two teens at their lowest could pull that off if that psych ward was anything like the one I went to.

 

[hell toupee]

I went to a psych ward as a teen/pre-teen. There are a lot of teens with psychotic disorders/symptoms there.

My only attempt was years later at 16 (not in a psych ward), during what was essentially a psychotic break. Slashed my wrist with a deeply serrated knife multiple times. If I hadn't had it wrestled out of my grip, I would have done more. I even tried to stab the person saving me.

Safe to say, you can extrapolate from there. I absolutely believe two teens at their lowest could pull that off if that psych ward was anything like the one I went to.

Thank you for the insight - I appreciate it.

So, basically, you think they were having a psychotic break or something? I guess that might explain it, however, psychotic break or not, you would think that hypercapnia would induce a kind of automated response where your body does whatever is possible to breathe fresh air. At least, that's the way I understand it.

I mean, I understand a psychotic break might lead you to do something impulsive in the moment, but I had always understood the hypercapnic response as a more automated response that you cannot control - regardless of your mental state of mind.

I will admit, I've never experienced a psychotic break, but still - it just seems like you would need inhuman willpower to override the body's automated response.

I mean, get the attraction some people might have for using a plastic bag, it's not violent like hanging or something, but I had always heard that it's basically impossible to just push through a hypercapnic response. Maybe the hypercapnia doesn't actually last very long and some people can in fact push through? There are case reports of people using a plastic bag - mostly older people, and it's usually combined with some type of powerful sedative - however I did read a case report, again, last night, of a 60yo woman simply taking some codeine and ctb this way.

I am very experienced with opioids, and my first thought would be that codeine, even in high doses to an someone who has no tolerance, would certainly NOT be enough to allow you to ignore the hypercapnia. Maybe if she had used a large bag that allowed her to breathe normally for a bit after she passes out - but she used a grocery bag, so she had to be conscious to pull it over her head, and the hypercapnia would set in almost immediately - meaning she's not in some deep slumber or anything.

Strange.

 

[itsgone2]

I mean, I understand a psychotic break might lead you to do something impulsive in the moment, but I had always understood the hypercapnic response as a more automated response that you cannot control - regardless of your mental state of mind.

Yeah I don't get it either. Years ago I tried this on more than one occasion. Couldn't get even remotely close. A psychotic break must really be something

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

Thank you for the insight - I appreciate it.

So, basically, you think they were having a psychotic break or something? I guess that might explain it, however, psychotic break or not, you would think that hypercapnia would induce a kind of automated response where your body does whatever is possible to breathe fresh air. At least, that's the way I understand it.

I mean, I understand a psychotic break might lead you to do something impulsive in the moment, but I had always understood the hypercapnic response as a more automated response that you cannot control - regardless of your mental state of mind.

I will admit, I've never experienced a psychotic break, but still - it just seems like you would need inhuman willpower to override the body's automated response.

I mean, get the attraction some people might have for using a plastic bag, it's not violent like hanging or something, but I had always heard that it's basically impossible to just push through a hypercapnic response. Maybe the hypercapnia doesn't actually last very long and some people can in fact push through? There are case reports of people using a plastic bag - mostly older people, and it's usually combined with some type of powerful sedative - however I did read a case report, again, last night, of a 60yo woman simply taking some codeine and ctb this way.

I am very experienced with opioids, and my first thought would be that codeine, even in high doses to an someone who has no tolerance, would certainly NOT be enough to allow you to ignore the hypercapnia. Maybe if she had used a large bag that allowed her to breathe normally for a bit after she passes out - but she used a grocery bag, so she had to be conscious to pull it over her head, and the hypercapnia would set in almost immediately - meaning she's not in some deep slumber or anything.

Strange.

There were kids who would talk to "invisible people" and bang their heads on the walls so hard that you could hear it through the ward. Psychosis can shut down Survival Instinct for many people (I've heard that can happen to some pw bipolar with or without psychotic features too, but I don't have it so I'd have to defer to the experts), and if they did do something like bang their head on the wall to get dizzy enough (many wards are super neglectful and just do not care as long as you have no visible wounds), I genuinely think that's a serious likelihood.

At my ward they literally had me turn and cough, and they took all my clothes, so I can't imagine having PLASTIC BAGS.

Also, ironically, some heavy sedative and antidepressant meds they force mentally ill teens onto can cause emotional numbing and result in reduced SI longterm.

Yeah I don't get it either. Years ago I tried this on more than one occasion. Couldn't get even remotely close. A psychotic break must really be something

Psychotic breaks are absolutely wild if I hadn't been helped during mine, I probably would have severed my entire wrist tendon and possibly hit an artery or something since I have thin skin due to EDS. I have four gnarly scars even now.

 

[itsgone2]

At my ward they literally had me turn and cough, and they took all my clothes, so I can't imagine having PLASTIC BAGS.

Yeah that's a good point. I was in once. They give you nothing. Even the clothes had no strings or anything

 

[dissociation]

When you're in a psych ward and have nothing else at your disposal, you just have to get creative.

 

[Sadbanana]

I guess it's just skill issue. Or maybe there is still a part in us that isn't ready to let go. In my case it's both.

 

[nyotei_]

echoing @NormallyNeurotic here, doing this is nearly impossible without either drugs or being under the influence of a severe psychotic episode.

this is also why it's theoretically possible to just simply find and cut a specific artery in your arm or neck, but your brain is never going to let you just do that; unless there was something powerful overriding it. it's not at all peaceful to go through.

the real question here is how the hell they got a hold of plastic bags in there at all????

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

echoing @NormallyNeurotic here, doing this is nearly impossible without either drugs or being under the influence of a severe psychotic episode.

this is also why it's theoretically possible to just simply find and cut a specific artery in your arm or neck, but your brain is never going to let you just do that; unless there was something powerful overriding it. it's not at all peaceful to go through.

the real question here is how the hell they got a hold of plastic bags in there at all????

I mean, if the parents are trying to ban plastic bags, they straight up might allow them there! Maybe for meals, or to put your clothes or bath products in?