Discussion How Do You Know If Your Reasons For Waiting Are Good?

[kane]

So there's a lot holding me back from ctb. I think I'm very afraid of letting go of my attachments to life - past moments when I was happy. I'm also afraid of some kind of existence beyond death (despite leaning toward atheism.) The thought of what it would do to my parents seems unacceptable. And I think there's probably also just a lot of basic survival instinct stuff going on - as long as I'm alive, I can still theoretically pass on my genes etc. (despite having no intention to ever start a family.)

On the other hand, I think I'm probably broken beyond repair. Parts of my mind are fixated on delusional fantasies, and it makes me miserable. My body is getting faultier by the month. I'm totally alone and isolated, and incapable of interacting with others without extreme anxiety. And I'm morally compromised to the point where I really should kill myself, purely from the shame of it. I don't want to exist like this anymore, and I don't see any possibility for positive change.

There are some circumstances where I'm sure I'd want to ctb - if I was facing a life prison sentence, or an agonizing chronic illness. But I'm very conflicted about my present situation. As I said, I'm miserable, and I see no prospect of it improving. I've spent over 13 years like this, and it's only gotten worse. I spend so much time thinking 'I just want this to stop. I don't want to be this anymore, and I can't be anything else.' But there's still this strong resistance to actually putting an end to it. And I don't know how to think about that.

Can your reasons for living be delusional? And if they are, is it possible to overcome that? Is there a sense where you 'should' overcome your inhibitions? I feel like I've trapped myself in a situation where life feels unbearable, but death is also unacceptable. If I could figure out some kind of clarity as to what I'm doing, or what I should be doing, maybe it would be more tolerable.

 

[Harleyyy]

i feel the same way about being fixated on delusional fantasies. I live far far far away from reality. It's crazy to say that i actually am alive just because of things that aren't real and false hope i keep giving myself. I'm in a very very similar situation as you. Well, saddening and also comforting to know that i'm not alone in this and so are you. I wish i could help but we're in the same boat. Sending you love

 

[kane]

i feel the same way about being fixated on delusional fantasies. I live far far far away from reality. It's crazy to say that i actually am alive just because of things that aren't real and false hope i keep giving myself. I'm in a very very similar situation as you. Well, saddening and also comforting to know that i'm not alone in this and so are you. I wish i could help but we're in the same boat. Sending you love

Ah, well some fantasies are more delusional than others. I think perhaps if you can find something that's close enough then sometimes maybe you can find contentment. Anyway, solidarity with a fellow lost dreamer

 

[alexit]

So there's a lot holding me back from ctb. I think I'm very afraid of letting go of my attachments to life - past moments when I was happy. I'm also afraid of some kind of existence beyond death (despite leaning toward atheism.) The thought of what it would do to my parents seems unacceptable. And I think there's probably also just a lot of basic survival instinct stuff going on - as long as I'm alive, I can still theoretically pass on my genes etc. (despite having no intention to ever start a family.)

On the other hand, I think I'm probably broken beyond repair. Parts of my mind are fixated on delusional fantasies, and it makes me miserable. My body is getting faultier by the month. I'm totally alone and isolated, and incapable of interacting with others without extreme anxiety. And I'm morally compromised to the point where I really should kill myself, purely from the shame of it. I don't want to exist like this anymore, and I don't see any possibility for positive change.

There are some circumstances where I'm sure I'd want to ctb - if I was facing a life prison sentence, or an agonizing chronic illness. But I'm very conflicted about my present situation. As I said, I'm miserable, and I see no prospect of it improving. I've spent over 13 years like this, and it's only gotten worse. I spend so much time thinking 'I just want this to stop. I don't want to be this anymore, and I can't be anything else.' But there's still this strong resistance to actually putting an end to it. And I don't know how to think about that.

Can your reasons for living be delusional? And if they are, is it possible to overcome that? Is there a sense where you 'should' overcome your inhibitions? I feel like I've trapped myself in a situation where life feels unbearable, but death is also unacceptable. If I could figure out some kind of clarity as to what I'm doing, or what I should be doing, maybe it would be more tolerable.

they are your reasons. all that's required for them to be right.

 

[kane]

they are your reasons. all that's required for them to be right.

I suppose my concern is that they will lead me to subject myself to ever greater suffering without any hope of a worthwhile payoff. That I'll allow myself to endure misery purely because the alternative is too scary. If I'm going to end up dead anyway (as we all must), doesn't it make sense to skip the suffering in between? But somehow my mind resists that conclusion.

 

[alexit]

I suppose my concern is that they will lead me to subject myself to ever greater suffering without any hope of a worthwhile payoff. That I'll allow myself to endure misery purely because the alternative is too scary. If I'm going to end up dead anyway (as we all must), doesn't it make sense to skip the suffering in between? But somehow my mind resists that conclusion.

We don't live for what we don't want. We live for what we do. There's nothing I want to live for but maybe you do have something.

 

[kane]

We don't live for what we don't want. We live for what we do. There's nothing I want to live for but maybe you do have something.

If I'm partly living because I'm scared of hell of some other sort of suffering beyond death, isn't that kind of living for what I don't want? There's things I do want from life, but they mostly seem wildly unrealistic or even logically impossible at this point.

 

[alexit]

If I'm partly living because I'm scared of hell of some other sort of suffering beyond death, isn't that kind of living for what I don't want? There's things I do want from life, but they mostly seem wildly unrealistic or even logically impossible at this point.

Ok. You got me. Everything goes tits up with religion. But I think you know what I mean. For people who want to live, it's the good stuff that keeps them around. As for impossible dreams, I mean that's what hoping against the odds is about. I don't have something like that so I can't relate.

 

[kane]

Ok. You got me. Everything goes tits up with religion. But I think you know what I mean. For people who want to live, it's the good stuff that keeps them around. As for impossible dreams, I mean that's what hoping against the odds is about. I don't have something like that so I can't relate.

Yeah, as I said I lean toward atheism, but I guess I just don't trust my own rationality. I think with 'hoping against the odds', we tend to think of it as pro-actively taking a 'long shot' at something. But when there's no actual path toward whatever the goal is, it's kind of different. It's more sad and delusional - like imagine a centenarian pinning all his dreams on winning the olympic 100m. Which would be fine, as long as he was happy and didn't realize it was a delusion. But suppose he was in miserable agony from degenerative illness, but still clinging on for this thing that was never going to happen.

I'm curious when you say you don't have something like that, does that mean you never wanted something from this life? Or do you think it's just that on some level you've emotionally accepted that you're never going to get the things you wanted?

 

[alexit]

I mean for me I have chronic pain that gets worse, specialists confirm, and relationships and career are wholly unsatisfying. And I'm old enough to say that with confidence.

 

[kane]

I mean for me I have chronic pain that gets worse, specialists confirm, and relationships and career are wholly unsatisfying. And I'm old enough to say that with confidence.

So presumably you wanted to have satisfying relationships and a career? Do you no longer want those things, or is it more that they no longer seem possible? I suppose I'm in the position where they don't seem possible.

 

[alexit]

So presumably you wanted to have satisfying relationships and a career? Do you no longer want those things, or is it more that they no longer seem possible? I suppose I'm in the position where they don't seem possible.

They don't seem possible.

 

[kane]

They don't seem possible.

I don't know if it's just that I have this kind of delusional fantasist part of me that tries to deny how hopeless it all is. But it seems like I'll keep suffering for the sake of nothing.

 

[alexit]

I don't know if it's just that I have this kind of delusional fantasist part of me that tries to deny how hopeless it all is. But it seems like I'll keep suffering for the sake of nothing.

I respect your decision but I don't think you should do it just because you don't have what you want. I want to CTB because I'm in excruciating physical pain and I don't care about life, simply not impressed, don't want to bother. If there's something you want, something you care about, go for it. Fuck the odds. You won't regret chasing it.

 

[kane]

I respect your decision but I don't think you should do it just because you don't have what you want. I want to CTB because I'm in excruciating physical pain and I don't care about life, simply not impressed, don't want to bother. If there's something you want, something you care about, go for it. Fuck the odds. You won't regret chasing it.

I'm sorry for your pain. I can see how that might override any other desires you'd have. My own physical discomfort is comparatively low level. Though I do wonder how bad it needs to get before it's time to ctb. I suppose I'm also in rather a lot of emotional pain that I don't know how to live with.

In terms of my desires, the problem is that I see no way towards them - they don't seem possible.

 

[alexit]

Do you want to talk about it? What are they? Why do they seem so out of reach? And why are they so important?

 

[FrankieVallie]

So there's a lot holding me back from ctb. I think I'm very afraid of letting go of my attachments to life - past moments when I was happy. I'm also afraid of some kind of existence beyond death (despite leaning toward atheism.) The thought of what it would do to my parents seems unacceptable. And I think there's probably also just a lot of basic survival instinct stuff going on - as long as I'm alive, I can still theoretically pass on my genes etc. (despite having no intention to ever start a family.)

On the other hand, I think I'm probably broken beyond repair. Parts of my mind are fixated on delusional fantasies, and it makes me miserable. My body is getting faultier by the month. I'm totally alone and isolated, and incapable of interacting with others without extreme anxiety. And I'm morally compromised to the point where I really should kill myself, purely from the shame of it. I don't want to exist like this anymore, and I don't see any possibility for positive change.

There are some circumstances where I'm sure I'd want to ctb - if I was facing a life prison sentence, or an agonizing chronic illness. But I'm very conflicted about my present situation. As I said, I'm miserable, and I see no prospect of it improving. I've spent over 13 years like this, and it's only gotten worse. I spend so much time thinking 'I just want this to stop. I don't want to be this anymore, and I can't be anything else.' But there's still this strong resistance to actually putting an end to it. And I don't know how to think about that.

Can your reasons for living be delusional? And if they are, is it possible to overcome that? Is there a sense where you 'should' overcome your inhibitions? I feel like I've trapped myself in a situation where life feels unbearable, but death is also unacceptable. If I could figure out some kind of clarity as to what I'm doing, or what I should be doing, maybe it would be more tolerable.

I feel what you're going through. Although I am currently at peace with death and ready to go, I still sometimes cling onto past moments of happiness or hopes I have of a better life. It's completely normal; our mind has survival instincts which make us ignore reality and desperately place our hopes on things that aren't going to happen. I also feel that there is no possibility for positive change in my life, but again my mind will still sometimes cling to unrealistic hopes and try to convince me that I still have a reason to wake up and fight on. Although I am surrounded by family, like you, I am also alone and struggle to interact with others. I have no true reason to exist anymore; my life's fate was already decided for me before I was born. I have spent the better part of 8 years desperately fighting my situation day after day, month after month, year after year, but nothing has and will change. That's one of the reasons I am at peace with death; I fought as hard as I could but still lost. I do not regret any of my decisions, nor do I feel as if I could possibly win this fight. If I could relive my life, I wouldn't change anything.

So, in the end, just remember that it's normal to have delusional or unrealistic reasons for living. Just like our body, our mind is biologically programmed to keep us alive. The most important thing is that you're at peace with death, like I am.

 

[kane]

Do you want to talk about it? What are they? Why do they seem so out of reach? And why are they so important?

I can't really explain it well - it's a very messy tangle of conflicting desires. Mostly focused around relationship/connection. I think I've essentially made it impossible to form a genuine connection with another person, because of things I've done and terrible parts of myself. Any friendship I form is based on deceit - with constant reminders that if they knew the truth about me they would be repulsed. So I feel alone, and afraid - never really able to relax or enjoy other's company. Possibly the desire for acceptance - to be seen, known, understood, loved - is unrealistic generally. For me it seems outright impossible. I don't know if such desires are based on human needs, or cultural constructs. It just seems really important - and really out of reach.

 

[alexit]

Well start finding what you like about yourself and others will respond.

 

[kane]

Well start finding what you like about yourself and others will respond.

It's more that when others respond, there's still this block to actual connection. I could go through the formalities of a relationship, without ever feeling really close to someone. Because I'll still have to hide this fundamentally messed up part of myself. So there's no point - it's just a facade. I can go through the motions of a life and pretend, but I'm not capable of real connection.

 

[XYZ]

If there's something you want, something you care about, go for it. Fuck the odds. You won't regret chasing it.

Well start finding what you like about yourself and others will respond.

These statements give me a slight sense of nausea. They fit nicely on a Hallmark card, but not on this forum. They are empty platitudes and they show you have a complete disregard and lack of understanding for the complexity and ruthlesness of life. "You won't regret it"... Oh really? How do YOU know that?

 

[kane]

I feel what you're going through. Although I am currently at peace with death and ready to go, I still sometimes cling onto past moments of happiness or hopes I have of a better life. It's completely normal; our mind has survival instincts which make us ignore reality and desperately place our hopes on things that aren't going to happen. I also feel that there is no possibility for positive change in my life, but again my mind will still sometimes cling to unrealistic hopes and try to convince me that I still have a reason to wake up and fight on. Although I am surrounded by family, like you, I am also alone and struggle to interact with others. I have no true reason to exist anymore; my life's fate was already decided for me before I was born. I have spent the better part of 8 years desperately fighting my situation day after day, month after month, year after year, but nothing has and will change. That's one of the reasons I am at peace with death; I fought as hard as I could but still lost. I do not regret any of my decisions, nor do I feel as if I could possibly win this fight. If I could relive my life, I wouldn't change anything.

So, in the end, just remember that it's normal to have delusional or unrealistic reasons for living. Just like our body, our mind is biologically programmed to keep us alive. The most important thing is that you're at peace with death, like I am.

Possibly I don't feel at peace with it because I didn't necessarily fight as hard as I could. There were years where I really did struggle with my demons - and got nowhere. Other times I just gave in. I regret a lot, and would want to change a lot if I could relive it. I can't see how I'll get to the point of being at peace with an end.

 

[alexit]

These statements give me a slight sense of nausea. They fit nicely on a Hallmark card, but not on this forum. They are empty platitudes and they show you have a complete disregard and lack of understanding for the complexity and ruthlesness of life. "You won't regret it"... Oh really? How do YOU now that?

I know they sound corny but it's because they're repeated by people who don't mean them. People do gravitate to people who are a little out of step and happy with it because they own it. I'm just telling you how I make friends.

These statements give me a slight sense of nausea. They fit nicely on a Hallmark card, but not on this forum. They are empty platitudes and they show you have a complete disregard and lack of understanding for the complexity and ruthlesness of life. "You won't regret it"... Oh really? How do YOU know that?

Ok, I should say I've never regretting chasing something I wanted. But I also don't know anyone who has.

 

[kane]

I'd say I do regret chasing after something (someone) in the past, but I did go about it in an exceptionally dumb manner. And I'm also of the type who takes rejection unnecessarily to heart.

 

[alexit]

I'd say I do regret chasing after something (someone) in the past, but I did go about it in an exceptionally dumb manner. And I'm also of the type who takes rejection unnecessarily to heart.

I've definitely regret how I've gone after people. Maybe it's splitting hairs but I feel like that's a different issue.

 

[HeavensOpenDoor]

Being neutral is good. In Buddhism it's called taking the middle path. Walking this path leads to enlightenment. The Buddha struggled with this very choice believe it or not. It is your decision to stay or to go, either way it's the journey that one undergoes in order to find peace.

 

[Wayfaerer]

I'm only waiting so that I can squeeze a little more out of life while I still can, even if it is just droplets.

 

[kane]

Being neutral is good. In Buddhism it's called taking the middle path. Walking this path leads to enlightenment. The Buddha struggled with this very choice believe it or not. It is your decision to stay or to go, either way it's the journey that one undergoes in order to find peace.

Do you mean neutral in the sense of trying to be objective/rational? I know it's my decision - it's just that I'm struggling to see it from a balanced or coherent perspective. When you say 'either way', do you mean that it doesn't matter - that either way ends in peace?