Enigmatic Sailor
vicissitudes of fate...
- Oct 29, 2021
- 386
symphony
surving hour-by-hour
- Mar 12, 2022
- 779
What have you already tried?
(Edit: I've been in treatment a lot so I think I have decent knowledge of some options available, I'm willing to share what I know but I don't want to flood you with things you already know. If you respond to this message soon, I can respond tonight; otherwise, I won't be able to respond until tomorrow afternoon. Just a heads up.)
(Edit: I've been in treatment a lot so I think I have decent knowledge of some options available, I'm willing to share what I know but I don't want to flood you with things you already know. If you respond to this message soon, I can respond tonight; otherwise, I won't be able to respond until tomorrow afternoon. Just a heads up.)
Last edited:
lunarflower
Member
- Mar 12, 2022
- 40
Answering this question would make you the richest person ever
Dysgenic Pup
A canine that’s not so heavenly.
- Sep 18, 2021
- 435
Enigmatic Sailor
vicissitudes of fate...
- Oct 29, 2021
- 386
Sunshine, exercise, healthy eating, challenging negative thoughts, setting goals, etc.
walt
Member
- Mar 15, 2022
- 86
All of the above are EXCELLENT ways of managing your depression, they are proven to lift your mood even if by a moderate or tiny amount. If you haven't, or you can, I think you should consider therapy, or counseling.
Talking your issues out with a professional is a big step, if your issues are ones you can talk out with one, and it can go a long way. Other than that, medications if you have mood swings or depression work as well. If you can't manage it on your own, I think you need to seek professional help if you want to get better. And clearly you have been trying hard, those are not easy things to do.
symphony
surving hour-by-hour
- Mar 12, 2022
- 779
Please let me know if any of this is remotely useful at all, and I'm sorry if it isn't...
My first note is that in many (but not all) cases, hoping for a "cure" is unrealistic. Aiming for a significant reduction in symptoms is practical, though, and many people who have achieved this report experiencing joy and viewing life as once again being worth living.
Second, any of the below suggestions are highly unlikely to be effective in isolation. If you are successful, it will likely be by combining multiple techniques.
Third, if all of these suggestions fail, it may be that "depression" does not 100% explain your condition. Many people with bipolar, for instance, are misdiagnosed as depressed. You may also have comorbid conditions which have gone undetected. These can complicate treatment and indicate that a different approach may be indicated. I'm editing this post to add that sometimes depression can have physical (medical) causes, for example a thyroid issue. If standard treatments aren't working, it may be time to look into possible underlying causes.
I should also note that I am not a scientist or medical expert of any kind. Please do not take my word for any of this and double-check my claims for yourself.
Now onto some options. I'll start with the obvious ones.
1. Antidepressants. The majority (I believe around 2/3) of depressed patients respond well to antidepressants, but most people do not respond to the first antidepressant they try - you may have to switch around a bit. You also generally have to take a med for several weeks before you can be sure if it's working or not. There are several classes of drugs here (SSRIs, SNRIs, tricyclics, MAOIs, and drugs that aren't technically "antidepressants" but can sometimes be effective for depression regardless), so if one drug or class of drugs isn't working, there's still hope that another will. There's also variation within these classes in regards to the exact mechanism of action. Sometimes combining multiple drugs can be effective. However, it is worth noting that once you've tried and failed to respond to 4 or 5 different drugs, statistically speaking, the chances that you'll respond to another different med get smaller and smaller. I'm editing this to add that genetics can also play a major role here. The MFTHR gene mutation can indicate a worse response to meds, but there are supplements that can help overcome that. There are genetic tests available (like GeneSight) that can predict what meds you will or will not respond well to, based on your genes.
2. Therapy. This one gets thrown around a lot but in those discussions, people often neglect to note how many different types of therapy there are. If one doesn't work, another might. There's talk therapy, CBT, DBT, ACT, EMDR, and countless more... Sometimes the therapist can make a difference and it can take time to find a therapist who "clicks" with you. Beyond just individual therapy, you can look into family therapy and couple's therapy according to your needs. Group therapy can also be very useful as you also can get support and ideas from your peers in the program. Partial Hospitalization Programs (PHPs) and Intensive Outpatient Programs (IOPs) both focus on outpatient group therapy for several hours a week. A level above that is residential therapy where you live on-campus in a supportive environment 24/7. It's the perfect environment to work on yourself because you can feel safe and have total support.
3. Lifestyle changes. You mentioned you've already tried some of this so I won't beat a dead horse, but it is worth mentioning that there's a lot of evidence suggesting that adjusting your behavior to align more with a healthy lifestyle can improve your mental health.
Now onto the options that get talked about a little less.
4. ECT (electroconvulsive therapy). There's a lot of unjustified fear around this one. In reality, it's one of the most effective treatment options for people who don't respond well to traditional medication. The biggest side effect that I'm aware of is minor short-term memory loss. The procedure as a whole is really no big deal. They put you under anesthesia... and then you wake up and it's over. That's it. The science comes from the observation that some people who experienced natural siezures showed improvements in their mental health, and subsequent research showed that medically inducing a siezure can be highly effective for treating depression.
5. TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation). This is another popular option for cases that don't respond immediately to medication. The idea is to use magnetic stimulation to increase brain activity in areas of the brain that become, well, depressed. I'm not aware of any major side effects. You just sit in a chair for a bit with a machine over your head.
6. Ketamine. You can receive ketamine either through IV infusions or a nasal spray (esketamine). In the short term, the drug produces a mild altered mind-state which can feel somewhat dissociative (but generally pleasant). In the long term, therapeutic doses of ketamine are associated with increased neuroplasticity and can help the brain "re-wire" itself positively.
7. Other options. I know (much) less about these so I can't go into detail, but I do know they exist. Some of these are newer treatments and still somewhat experimental. But some other options may include neurofeedback, deep brain stimulation, and therapeutic use of psychedelic drugs. The ulitimate source, of course, of other good options would be a psychiatrist who knows you personally.
Sorry for the textdump. Disclaimer that I'm tired and didn't proofread what I just wrote and I'm sure the scientific explanations of the last few are not 100% on target, I know I'm not fully remembering the mechanisms of action the way I once knew them. I guess my hope is just that this can give you or someone else some idea of available options beyond what you already know.
My first note is that in many (but not all) cases, hoping for a "cure" is unrealistic. Aiming for a significant reduction in symptoms is practical, though, and many people who have achieved this report experiencing joy and viewing life as once again being worth living.
Second, any of the below suggestions are highly unlikely to be effective in isolation. If you are successful, it will likely be by combining multiple techniques.
Third, if all of these suggestions fail, it may be that "depression" does not 100% explain your condition. Many people with bipolar, for instance, are misdiagnosed as depressed. You may also have comorbid conditions which have gone undetected. These can complicate treatment and indicate that a different approach may be indicated. I'm editing this post to add that sometimes depression can have physical (medical) causes, for example a thyroid issue. If standard treatments aren't working, it may be time to look into possible underlying causes.
I should also note that I am not a scientist or medical expert of any kind. Please do not take my word for any of this and double-check my claims for yourself.
Now onto some options. I'll start with the obvious ones.
1. Antidepressants. The majority (I believe around 2/3) of depressed patients respond well to antidepressants, but most people do not respond to the first antidepressant they try - you may have to switch around a bit. You also generally have to take a med for several weeks before you can be sure if it's working or not. There are several classes of drugs here (SSRIs, SNRIs, tricyclics, MAOIs, and drugs that aren't technically "antidepressants" but can sometimes be effective for depression regardless), so if one drug or class of drugs isn't working, there's still hope that another will. There's also variation within these classes in regards to the exact mechanism of action. Sometimes combining multiple drugs can be effective. However, it is worth noting that once you've tried and failed to respond to 4 or 5 different drugs, statistically speaking, the chances that you'll respond to another different med get smaller and smaller. I'm editing this to add that genetics can also play a major role here. The MFTHR gene mutation can indicate a worse response to meds, but there are supplements that can help overcome that. There are genetic tests available (like GeneSight) that can predict what meds you will or will not respond well to, based on your genes.
2. Therapy. This one gets thrown around a lot but in those discussions, people often neglect to note how many different types of therapy there are. If one doesn't work, another might. There's talk therapy, CBT, DBT, ACT, EMDR, and countless more... Sometimes the therapist can make a difference and it can take time to find a therapist who "clicks" with you. Beyond just individual therapy, you can look into family therapy and couple's therapy according to your needs. Group therapy can also be very useful as you also can get support and ideas from your peers in the program. Partial Hospitalization Programs (PHPs) and Intensive Outpatient Programs (IOPs) both focus on outpatient group therapy for several hours a week. A level above that is residential therapy where you live on-campus in a supportive environment 24/7. It's the perfect environment to work on yourself because you can feel safe and have total support.
3. Lifestyle changes. You mentioned you've already tried some of this so I won't beat a dead horse, but it is worth mentioning that there's a lot of evidence suggesting that adjusting your behavior to align more with a healthy lifestyle can improve your mental health.
Now onto the options that get talked about a little less.
4. ECT (electroconvulsive therapy). There's a lot of unjustified fear around this one. In reality, it's one of the most effective treatment options for people who don't respond well to traditional medication. The biggest side effect that I'm aware of is minor short-term memory loss. The procedure as a whole is really no big deal. They put you under anesthesia... and then you wake up and it's over. That's it. The science comes from the observation that some people who experienced natural siezures showed improvements in their mental health, and subsequent research showed that medically inducing a siezure can be highly effective for treating depression.
5. TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation). This is another popular option for cases that don't respond immediately to medication. The idea is to use magnetic stimulation to increase brain activity in areas of the brain that become, well, depressed. I'm not aware of any major side effects. You just sit in a chair for a bit with a machine over your head.
6. Ketamine. You can receive ketamine either through IV infusions or a nasal spray (esketamine). In the short term, the drug produces a mild altered mind-state which can feel somewhat dissociative (but generally pleasant). In the long term, therapeutic doses of ketamine are associated with increased neuroplasticity and can help the brain "re-wire" itself positively.
7. Other options. I know (much) less about these so I can't go into detail, but I do know they exist. Some of these are newer treatments and still somewhat experimental. But some other options may include neurofeedback, deep brain stimulation, and therapeutic use of psychedelic drugs. The ulitimate source, of course, of other good options would be a psychiatrist who knows you personally.
Sorry for the textdump. Disclaimer that I'm tired and didn't proofread what I just wrote and I'm sure the scientific explanations of the last few are not 100% on target, I know I'm not fully remembering the mechanisms of action the way I once knew them. I guess my hope is just that this can give you or someone else some idea of available options beyond what you already know.
Last edited:
GentleJerk
Carrot juice pimp.
- Dec 14, 2021
- 1,373
Depression is not one single entity with a single cause, it can take many forms, arise from psychological and/or physical trauma, malnutrition, an underlying chronic illness, inflammation, many different things or a combination. So the cause needs to be discovered and addressed, then the resulting depression treated on that level. Even then, there is not always a cure.
*EDIT* For an example, bacterial imbalances, the disproportionate presence of certain harmful bacteria in the gut, usually due to antibiotics use, can cause severe chronic depression. Therapy and sunshine will not fix this, but 2 cloves raw garlic every day for a minimum of 8 months, more spore-based probiotic bacteria in the diet to correct the imbalance, and nutrient dense food + multivitamins to replenish important things like potassium and iron which have been depleted by the growth of certain bacteria, can certainly fix this.
*EDIT* For an example, bacterial imbalances, the disproportionate presence of certain harmful bacteria in the gut, usually due to antibiotics use, can cause severe chronic depression. Therapy and sunshine will not fix this, but 2 cloves raw garlic every day for a minimum of 8 months, more spore-based probiotic bacteria in the diet to correct the imbalance, and nutrient dense food + multivitamins to replenish important things like potassium and iron which have been depleted by the growth of certain bacteria, can certainly fix this.
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I have made a huge thread about that topic in recovery.
Maybe it could help you.
Moreover talking to a professional can help in order to get the right treatment. (psychotherapy, medication. etc.)
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/a-guide-how-to-fight-nasty-depressions.85990/
Maybe it could help you.
Moreover talking to a professional can help in order to get the right treatment. (psychotherapy, medication. etc.)
Lost Magic
Illuminated
- May 5, 2020
- 3,045
There is no cure to depression. It is an underlying issue that can be treated, with various degrees of success. You just have to try and find something that works for you. Good luck!
Pluto
Meowing to go out
- Dec 27, 2020
- 3,852
I agree with everything that's been said, including the idea that seeking a 'cure' could be excessively ambitious and lead to more trouble than someone merely seeking to peacefully coexist with the whims of the human brain.
The only thing I can add is that positive interactions with others are hugely beneficial. Many other approaches seem to be overlooking this elephant in the room.
I've noticed that when I had my niece and nephew over in bygone years, I suddenly found that I only needed about half as much sleep and was mostly out of my low-energy state as an empty-nester. Even at work, when I'm helping people or collaborating on achieving goals, I'm a completely different person. Then when I spent a bit of time alone, I crash and the world becomes black again. My colleagues would probably be quite shocked if the news came that I died, as I'm always cheerful around them; it's almost a split personality.
This seems to work on two levels. Firstly, being with others over extended periods seems to 'recharge' us, and my many years of isolation has made me like a mostly-depleted battery, hence the dramatic mood decline when alone. Secondly, there is the immediate but short-lived upliftment of positive interactions with others on a short-term basis. That is why some will suggest being involved with charities and so forth.
For all the complexity of the topic, if there had to be a single fundamental cause of depression, this is it. In bygone societies, more emphasis was placed on ensuring people had families (eg. family pressure to marry, etc.) and people often had communities that were united through churches or whatever. As problematic as those old cultures were in terms of misogyny and so on, modern cultural trends of social media, hedonism and irreligiosity has clearly not been implemented in a manner devoid of collateral damage.
The only thing I can add is that positive interactions with others are hugely beneficial. Many other approaches seem to be overlooking this elephant in the room.
I've noticed that when I had my niece and nephew over in bygone years, I suddenly found that I only needed about half as much sleep and was mostly out of my low-energy state as an empty-nester. Even at work, when I'm helping people or collaborating on achieving goals, I'm a completely different person. Then when I spent a bit of time alone, I crash and the world becomes black again. My colleagues would probably be quite shocked if the news came that I died, as I'm always cheerful around them; it's almost a split personality.
This seems to work on two levels. Firstly, being with others over extended periods seems to 'recharge' us, and my many years of isolation has made me like a mostly-depleted battery, hence the dramatic mood decline when alone. Secondly, there is the immediate but short-lived upliftment of positive interactions with others on a short-term basis. That is why some will suggest being involved with charities and so forth.
For all the complexity of the topic, if there had to be a single fundamental cause of depression, this is it. In bygone societies, more emphasis was placed on ensuring people had families (eg. family pressure to marry, etc.) and people often had communities that were united through churches or whatever. As problematic as those old cultures were in terms of misogyny and so on, modern cultural trends of social media, hedonism and irreligiosity has clearly not been implemented in a manner devoid of collateral damage.
NOt by using medications and probbaly not by hospitalization. Building a network of people who care about you- family, friends, and most importantly, a relationship, plus getting a good financial situation and dealing with any physical health problems. This is much easier said than done, but issues in these areas are the main causes of depression for most people, not a chemical imbalance.
Lost Magic
Illuminated
- May 5, 2020
- 3,045
I think you are right. Those are the areas that are severely lacking in my life. I noticed that there is a correlation between not having a strong support network and the link to depression. It seems to be that the people who thrive in this life are based on some of the things you mentioned. Right now I am just programmed to survive, but I'm not living. I can barely get out the house anymore to attend to things. Detachment from this body is the clear path moving forward.
I'm in the same situation as you, but with age wroking against me, too, in my fifties. If I was in my twenties or thirties there would be enough time to build these things, especially in my twenties.
Marine
*~ 絶対に 全てを取り戻させてもらう ~*
- Jul 5, 2020
- 678
Being with family and friends more should help. Exercise or long walks and eat healthy. Anti depressants did not work for me but everyone is different.
onlyanimalsaregood
Unlovable 💔 Rest in peace CommitSudoku 🤍
- Mar 11, 2022
- 1,329
For me what helped was the medication. Complementing with therapy is also essential. It's a progress. Sometimes I have some minimally good days, others a little sadder.
Unfortunately I don't have family support and I live far away.
My cat is my family.
Unfortunately I don't have family support and I live far away.
My cat is my family.
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