has anyone else noticed that 'spiritual'/'new age' people are often assholes?

[tiredplant777]

My apologies to people who are spiritual and who are not assholes.
This is just a phenomenon I have noticed over the past decade of my life. I've done ayahuasca quite a bit and because of this I have been around these people a lot, through ayahuasca and through friends of friends. I've noticed that a lot of these people are very disconnected from their feelings and empathy, and they are often very judgemental and prefer to feel superior to the 'masses'. If you ever point out a flaw in their reasoning they just do the spiritual bypass thing. They rarely seem to think about how their actions effect others, my friend had a spiritual leader lash out at her recently for honestly no good reason, and when she respectfully explained how she felt they still dismissed her. I guess it's a lot of ego stuff. It's just tiring on my end because I find things like Ayahuasca and meditation and other things like this genuinely really helpful, but the people who are involved are so difficult. I've completely removed myself from these groups now, and I feel a lot better.
I know there's assholes everywhere no matter where you go, but just in my own life I've found the highest concentration of assholes to be in these spiritual groups. I've worked at quite a few places and I know I am lucky but in general nearly everyone I've worked with even more long term have mostly been just like kind and considerate people, except for one boss lol. I'm just curious to see if anyone has any similar experiences or has any thoughts or insights about this.
The spiritual people I know who are good and kind people are actually people who have had near death experiences, like died and then come back. This makes me think that the other spiritual people who are using substances and yoga and meditation are still really missing something.

 

[Manaaja]

I feel like every religion/belief/spirituality is best practiced alone. Like the saying in my language says "The more cooks the worse the soup".

It's the same in any thing. I feel my IQ goes from 200 to -200 every time I surround myself with people. It's like other people make certain parts of my brain shut down. Also, when you are in a group you tend to think (either consciously or subconsciously) "What do those people want to hear? What should I say to please them? What should I say to them in order to appear like A?". Too much brainpower goes to thinking how to act and what to say to other people and reading body language and listening to and analyzing their speech and keeping eye contact, instead of all the brain power going directly to intelligence. When I was in school I lied that I don't like Pokemon because I feared the judgment of the group. In truth, I'm the biggest Pokemon fan ever.

You can only be yourself alone. And your thoughts can only be truthful and honest alone.

I do understand it's nice to hear people believe in the same stuff as you do, but I feel that all organized religions/belief systems/societies fail because of what I mentioned above.

I guess nice/kind/nonconfrontial people are often shy people and shy people like to be alone playing video games or reading books regardless of their belief system. Meanwhile assholes and people who speak a bit too directly are often more social and thus more likely to join social things, such as religious gatherings etc.

 

[Mr2005]

They're not spiritual they're trendy and full of shit

 

[Foresight]

My experience has been that some of them have no idea what they're talking about yet they think they hold the secrets of the universe. Those are the ones who are a problem for me. Have some humility. Also, when you're circumventing the hard work and grim reality checks that is necessary for wisdom you're not going to find it. I just don't like the path and I'm a pretty spiritual person. New age teachings are usually a perversion of spiritual concepts that take a long time, sometimes a lifetime depending on the subject, to truly know. There's nothing cute and easy about it, it takes dedication.

 

[Smart No More]

I find the term spiritual way too open to interpretation and have never really understood it difinitively. I think that's a bit of a weapon in the hands of some people. I know what you mean though. Many people claiming to be spiritual are quite frustrating to be around or witness. That scene attracts people that are either very self absorbed or quite volatile. Often a mixture of the two. Egos and charlatans are rife in those circles. They're the equivelant to palm readers and people who claim to communicate with the dead. There are some decent new age types about and I am a bit of a self confessed hippy myself but I consider myself to be a nice honest kind of person. I think the best wxamples of new age types are more private and genuine and are less seen than the worst examples as a result.

 

[OrcWitch]

prefer to feel superior to the 'masses'

I dislike this type of person. Spiritually, intellectually, politically or anything else, their ego is just there to take a huge dump on the conversation rather than anything productive.

 

[GentleJerk]

I dislike this type of person. Spiritually, intellectually, politically or anything else, their ego is just there to take a huge dump on the conversation rather than anything productive.

Ego is not your amigo xD


Yes OP I know exactly what you mean, I've dealt with it first hand. It can be very detrimental for well-meaning people, I've seen many turned-off by it and it can make the entire subject of higher spiritual endeavors look bad.

The modern pseudo-spiritual, new-age, neo-shamanism etc movements, they often began with good intentions, bringing something much needed to the stiff, stale, consumerist, shallow, apocalyptic mayhem that is modern life, but increasingly move further away from a noble cause and also traditional values, and are now mostly a feel-good sham.

A good example is, the psychedelic trance movement. I saw the transformation from the nineties, From the beaches of Goa, uniting people around the world with freedom of expression and expansion of consciousness, art, resurrecting appreciation for psychedelics... To a modern global psytrance nightmare, doof-mafias and rich kids peddling meth and nangs, sucking as much cash as they can out of party-goers, leaving lives wasted and trashing the environment with little to no regard for anything except drugs and profits.

But strangely this problem also exists in the monastic circles and with traditional spiritual schools. For instance Chogyam Trungpa - the 'bad boy' of tibetan buddhism, founder of Shambhala, a spiritual teacher responsible for popularising the teachings in the west. He was a self-righteous alcoholic and drug addict that psychologically and sexually abused his students, and his lackies were responsible for doing all sorts of really arrogant and frankly despicable things under the guise of 'spirituality'.

The man you trusted wasn't "Wavy-Gravy" at all! And all this time I've been smoking harmless tobacco!


It's amusing when a person has some level of realisation or spiritual advancement, then they regress by using it to manipulate or by looking down on others as if they are somehow elevated above them? It defeats the purpose. I saw it when I was a vegetarian for a while. There were holier-than-thou "super-vegans", tofu warriors who would spit on and scorn lesser vegetarians because they still drank milk or something, instead of appreciating the very hard decisions they made to stop eating meat.

At least it's possible to still get a lot done in your own time while you look for some sort of spiritual community that is better suited for your needs, though this type of bad influence does seem to find it's way into nearly everything :/ Best wishes.

 

[Silenos]

One of the problems is that there's a lot of toxic positivity in groups of these people. And if you can't get with the program you're seen as someone with low/bad vibes.

 

[Snake of Eden]

Oh yah big time. They often exude superstitious and zeal energies.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

People love to feel superior to others and the new age stuff is a great conduit for that, just like all the virtue signaling and social media nonsense out there. I wish we could just collectively admit we're idiots.

 

[Smart No More]

Ha. Love that!

People love to feel superior to others and the new age stuff is a great conduit for that, just like all the virtue signaling and social media nonsense out there. I wish we could just collectively admit we're idiots.

Ha. I like that. I totally agree. It would be such a better and more productive space if we did that. I tell my brother this. I say that it's perfectly ok to be wrong as long as you're open to it. Put the ego aside (not that he has a big ego just that we all battle the ego to some extent) and allow yourself to be wrong from an accepting mindset. Then you're not hindered by it on the way to the root of the issue. It's actually very liberating and when you do it in public people respond with either mutual respect or just a kind of bepuzzlement because their brains can't quite underdtand that it just happened. They eventually chew it over inhindsight though. It has a genuinely positive impact on people around you as well as yourself and it bring evetyone onto the same level. Of course there are some that will see it as weekness and try to take advantage but that's a other story. In general it's a logical and positve way to go.

 

[TooConscious]

Great to see the common sense here.

Besides the narcissistic people Its also used as escapism and they will tell people who truly recognise the possible effects of spirit that they shouldn't speak their truth because it's 'negative'
So the people who are genuinely trying to help enlighten everyone get told to shut up.

 

[Capsicum_Corral]

I saw it when I was a vegetarian for a while. There were holier-than-thou "super-vegans", tofu warriors who would spit on and scorn lesser vegetarians because they still drank milk or something, instead of appreciating the very hard decisions they made to stop eating meat.

They still eat food? Pfffft, Breatharians look down on them.

Talk about a conflicted group of individuals who can never be good enough... The founder claimed he had to hold his breath when walking past a restaurant or he'd "overeat". He was later caught coming out of a McDonalds with hamburger on his breath, but the Breatharian Institute continued on.

 

[tiredplant777]

I feel like every religion/belief/spirituality is best practiced alone. Like the saying in my language says "The more cooks the worse the soup".

It's the same in any thing. I feel my IQ goes from 200 to -200 every time I surround myself with people. It's like other people make certain parts of my brain shut down. Also, when you are in a group you tend to think (either consciously or subconsciously) "What do those people want to hear? What should I say to please them? What should I say to them in order to appear like A?". Too much brainpower goes to thinking how to act and what to say to other people and reading body language and listening to and analyzing their speech and keeping eye contact, instead of all the brain power going directly to intelligence. When I was in school I lied that I don't like Pokemon because I feared the judgment of the group. In truth, I'm the biggest Pokemon fan ever.

You can only be yourself alone. And your thoughts can only be truthful and honest alone.

I do understand it's nice to hear people believe in the same stuff as you do, but I feel that all organized religions/belief systems/societies fail because of what I mentioned above.

I guess nice/kind/nonconfrontial people are often shy people and shy people like to be alone playing video games or reading books regardless of their belief system. Meanwhile assholes and people who speak a bit too directly are often more social and thus more likely to join social things, such as religious gatherings etc.

Yes I totally agree. I noticed that no matter how close I am with someone, I am always censoring myself and navigating what to say. Since I have decided to step away from spiritual people I know and just relate to my own spiritual experiences in private I've felt a lot better. You are right too, assholes are more likely to want to be around a lot f people.

They're not spiritual they're trendy and full of shit

thank you for saying that. exactly. I feel like ultimately being spiritual or whatever is about being a good person, and that's really it.

My experience has been that some of them have no idea what they're talking about yet they think they hold the secrets of the universe. Those are the ones who are a problem for me. Have some humility. Also, when you're circumventing the hard work and grim reality checks that is necessary for wisdom you're not going to find it. I just don't like the path and I'm a pretty spiritual person. New age teachings are usually a perversion of spiritual concepts that take a long time, sometimes a lifetime depending on the subject, to truly know. There's nothing cute and easy about it, it takes dedication.

Thank you for saying this. Yes this has been my experience with some of these people as well. I agree about the grim reality setting in, I've seen a lot of those people totally collapse in those situations. And yes, I agree also with New age teachings being perversions of spiritual concepts that take a long time. It all really does take dedication. I feel a lot of these people want a fast route out of whatever they don't want to be in, and then they never get there because that's the wrong way and they get more and more lost.

I find the term spiritual way too open to interpretation and have never really understood it difinitively. I think that's a bit of a weapon in the hands of some people. I know what you mean though. Many people claiming to be spiritual are quite frustrating to be around or witness. That scene attracts people that are either very self absorbed or quite volatile. Often a mixture of the two. Egos and charlatans are rife in those circles. They're the equivelant to palm readers and people who claim to communicate with the dead. There are some decent new age types about and I am a bit of a self confessed hippy myself but I consider myself to be a nice honest kind of person. I think the best wxamples of new age types are more private and genuine and are less seen than the worst examples as a result.

Yes I agree the term isn't great. I also know people who describe themselves as spiritual who do so because they had near death experiences, and these people almost always are very humble and genuine. The people you describe are definitely the people I have run in to, and I've also met some alright people too. I am also a bit of a hippy too, so I get where you are coming from. Thanks for your input.

I dislike this type of person. Spiritually, intellectually, politically or anything else, their ego is just there to take a huge dump on the conversation rather than anything productive.

lol I know right. it is exhausting.

 

[tiredplant777]

Ego is not your amigo xD
View attachment 85125

Yes OP I know exactly what you mean, I've dealt with it first hand. It can be very detrimental for well-meaning people, I've seen many turned-off by it and it can make the entire subject of higher spiritual endeavors look bad.

The modern pseudo-spiritual, new-age, neo-shamanism etc movements, they often began with good intentions, bringing something much needed to the stiff, stale, consumerist, shallow, apocalyptic mayhem that is modern life, but increasingly move further away from a noble cause and also traditional values, and are now mostly a feel-good sham.

A good example is, the psychedelic trance movement. I saw the transformation from the nineties, From the beaches of Goa, uniting people around the world with freedom of expression and expansion of consciousness, art, resurrecting appreciation for psychedelics... To a modern global psytrance nightmare, doof-mafias and rich kids peddling meth and nangs, sucking as much cash as they can out of party-goers, leaving lives wasted and trashing the environment with little to no regard for anything except drugs and profits.

But strangely this problem also exists in the monastic circles and with traditional spiritual schools. For instance Chogyam Trungpa - the 'bad boy' of tibetan buddhism, founder of Shambhala, a spiritual teacher responsible for popularising the teachings in the west. He was a self-righteous alcoholic and drug addict that psychologically and sexually abused his students, and his lackies were responsible for doing all sorts of really arrogant and frankly despicable things under the guise of 'spirituality'.

The man you trusted wasn't "Wavy-Gravy" at all! And all this time I've been smoking harmless tobacco!
View attachment 85126

It's amusing when a person has some level of realisation or spiritual advancement, then they regress by using it to manipulate or by looking down on others as if they are somehow elevated above them? It defeats the purpose. I saw it when I was a vegetarian for a while. There were holier-than-thou "super-vegans", tofu warriors who would spit on and scorn lesser vegetarians because they still drank milk or something, instead of appreciating the very hard decisions they made to stop eating meat.

At least it's possible to still get a lot done in your own time while you look for some sort of spiritual community that is better suited for your needs, though this type of bad influence does seem to find it's way into nearly everything :/ Best wishes.

Thank you for this! That is interesting about your experience with the psychedelic trance movement. It's hard because similarly in my experience people are often setting out with at least mostly good intentions, and I've seen people go totally on scary ego trips out of that. I've been involved with multiple Ayahuasca communities now and honestly I end up seeing the same thing. I've been finding that even if people in those spaces are mostly good and responsible, the good is extremely conditional. Honestly a lot of my feelings about this are because of a leader of an Ayahuasca circle I've been with ended up treating my friend like shit. And this is after having these experiences and far darker experiences in other plant medicine communities. And yes this is similar to what you describe as people having spiritual realizations or advancements, I feel like I've seen that a lot. I actually vaped some weed a couple weeks ago and I felt I was given the understanding that the way to really tell where someone is really at spiritually is through how they treat others, and that being a spiritual person and 'enlightenment' are about engaging in 'right action', basically being a good and compassionate person.
What happened within Shambhala is also something I think about a lot in terms of this stuff, thank you for bringing it up. I actually moved to nova Scotia a few years ago and I have met people who are still involved with Shambhala. I looked into it though and wow it was so, so awful. I have an older friend here who knew people who grew up within Shambhala because there parents were in it. He said they both experienced sexual abuse as children within the organization and one of them committed suicide. It scares me how many people can enable that kind of behaviour, turn a blind eye, and then present themselves as saintly and like they have all the answers.

 

[Somber]

Whenever people come together there will be friction that can result in arguments or fights.

Having a 'leader' can be useful if the involved parties can't figure out a way to settle their differences but that leadership should mostly stay in the background and give them a chance to work it out amongst themselves first.

Kind of how SS mods run the forums.

Why do you need a commune to experience Ayahuasca anyway and why do they have hierarchical structures? Seems kind of against the spirit of psychedelics.

 

[tiredplant777]

One of the problems is that there's a lot of toxic positivity in groups of these people. And if you can't get with the program you're seen as someone with low/bad vibes.

oh yeah for real. and forget expecting people to hold themselves and others accountable.

Oh yah big time. They often exude superstitious and zeal energies.

I'm glad I made this post. yes exactly thank you

People love to feel superior to others and the new age stuff is a great conduit for that, just like all the virtue signaling and social media nonsense out there. I wish we could just collectively admit we're idiots.

same! how are any of us really supposed to know what's going on, specifically spiritually?

Ha. Love that!


Ha. I like that. I totally agree. It would be such a better and more productive space if we did that. I tell my brother this. I say that it's perfectly ok to be wrong as long as you're open to it. Put the ego aside (not that he has a big ego just that we all battle the ego to some extent) and allow yourself to be wrong from an accepting mindset. Then you're not hindered by it on the way to the root of the issue. It's actually very liberating and when you do it in public people respond with either mutual respect or just a kind of bepuzzlement because their brains can't quite underdtand that it just happened. They eventually chew it over inhindsight though. It has a genuinely positive impact on people around you as well as yourself and it bring evetyone onto the same level. Of course there are some that will see it as weekness and try to take advantage but that's a other story. In general it's a logical and positve way to go.

This is great, and I totally agree. I notice people respond really well to this too, it's actually really nice to see. I find often people are surprised in a really good way when this happens.

Great to see the common sense here.

Besides the narcissistic people Its also used as escapism and they will tell people who truly recognise the possible effects of spirit that they shouldn't speak their truth because it's 'negative'
So the people who are genuinely trying to help enlighten everyone get told to shut up.

yeah man. yeah. I'm also happy to see common sense here too. thank you

They still eat food? Pfffft, Breatharians look down on them.

Talk about a conflicted group of individuals who can never be good enough... The founder claimed he had to hold his breath when walking past a restaurant or he'd "overeat". He was later caught coming out of a McDonalds with hamburger on his breath, but the Breatharian Institute continued on.

lmao

Whenever people come together there will be friction that can result in arguments or fights.

Having a 'leader' can be useful if the involved parties can't figure out a way to settle their differences but that leadership should mostly stay in the background and give them a chance to work it out amongst themselves first.

Kind of how SS mods run the forums.

Why do you need a commune to experience Ayahuasca anyway and why do they have hierarchical structures? Seems kind of against the spirit of psychedelics.

Yeah I totally agree. I feel like I've noticed these issues a lot more in spiritual communities, but they do exist everywhere, and maybe I've just been lucky in other places I've been and the places I've worked. Ayahuasca itself genuinely helps me and has helped me, predominately with c-ptsd, and dealing with the after math of years of abuse. I was abused in a way where there was systematic brainwashing and ayahuasca was genuinely the only thing that helped me undo that brainwashing. It's been a weird ride, especially in getting so much help from Ayahuasca and the traditional lineages that work with her, and then having to deal with all of this conflict along with the people who also partake.
editing to say that I do feel all of that conflict and hierarchies are against the spirit of psychedelics for sure. I understand the need for a trained curendero to help with the ceremonies but I don't think that beyond that there needs to be conflict and hierarchies in these groups to this extent. It seems to be an issue in other spiritual places too.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

R/psychonauts users when you don't transcend the astral metaphysical plane of spiritual otherworldly chakra gates by snorting ketamine once whilst channeling your inner child spiritual ego as your trip sitter life coach burns lavender insence and plays Alan Watts asmr videos as he guides you through 4th dimensional Buddhist hinduist intellectual philosophy on enlightenment Post ego death

 

[JinZhin]

When someone mentions 'spirituality' or refers to themselves as 'a spiritual person' unironically, speak about mind expansions and trios and hallucinacions and revelations they've had while meditating and so on, I will assume they are very likely and asshole/ toxic and wait for that to either be proven wrong (which is statistically, not likely to happen) or confirmed in some way so I can make sure I never have to deal with them again.

 

[GentleJerk]

Why do you need a commune to experience Ayahuasca anyway and why do they have hierarchical structures? Seems kind of against the spirit of psychedelics.

You're right, one doesn't need a group or some such to experience the benefits psychedelics may offer, but unlike LSD, the traditional plant medicines such as Ayahuasca and also Mescaline-containing cacti in particular, have a very long cultural history and have always been traditionally used as sacraments and in ceremonial/ritual settings.

The traditions, ceremonies and rituals are considered equally as meaningful and important as the medicine, and their proper use is always taught and perfected by the elders and those most qualified, before being passed down. Same thing with esoteric and mystery traditions such a qabala, freemasonry etc. The problem with this is when those who are unqualified, or unfit to be in a position of priest, master, spiritual leader or other- they transmit to the apprentices/trainees/neophytes their own faults and flaws so to speak, and rather than guide and teach properly, safely, they end up poisoning the tradition.

 

[Heavenbound]

I was once a victim of road rage. The person harassing me finally turned into the parking area of a new age center…

I guess you can file this under 'asshole' :
A really shady woman owned the local new age store. She was really creepy and always seemed to me like she thought she was superior to everyone around her.
Apparently, she was also the caregiver for an elderly man. She got busted for credit card fraud. Somehow she opened a credit card in the man's name and was using it to buy merchandise for her store. She wasn't making payments and the man's family found out about it and pressed charges. So yeah, I'd consider her to be an asshole…

 

[kwho]

I know there's assholes everywhere no matter where you go, but just in my own life I've found the highest concentration of assholes to be in these spiritual groups. I've worked at quite a few places and I know I am lucky but in general nearly everyone I've worked with even more long term have mostly been just like kind and considerate people, except for one boss lol. I'm just curious to see if anyone has any similar experiences or has any thoughts or insights about this.
The spiritual people I know who are good and kind people are actually people who have had near death experiences, like died and then come back. This makes me think that the other spiritual people who are using substances and yoga and meditation are still really missing something.

Because they omit the shadow-work. That's the biggest reason.

The shadow-work is the 1st, 2nd and 3rd condition of any true advancement.
Shadow and all its components strengthen when repressed and ignored. It works out more or less ok, if one keeps to an ordinary, everyday consciousness, but not for higher states. It gets real bad then.

But shadow-work is hard, unglamorous and seemingly endless; and it recquires a strong inner core and an honest commitment, so...

 

[ForgottenTomb]

From my experience, it has been a 50/50 gamble. Some of the spiritual/new age/hippie people that I've met are the most empathic, kind and selfless people that I know. If I were to name the people in my life who were the most empathic and kind, a couple of them would fall under that category.

However, just as many spiritual people that I know seem to be quite condescending, completely detached from reality with a complete lack of empathy for others. They have been 'healed and enlightened', which apparently means that they cannot relate to suffering humans anymore. Those people are blind and beneath them, but the cure for that is always really simple! All you have to do is ''connect with the Universe or God!''