Judah

Judah

Enlightened
Oct 1, 2020
1,540
Well, I wanted to bring up a topic so I'll start with my experience

I recently became an active youtuber, the truth is my channel is dedicated to commenting on news and it is quite small, but in my short career I have met quite well-known and famous people on the platform.

But 2 of them had something in common, first there was an Argentine subject who gained millions of followers and a large audience, but a 16-year-old girl decided to expose him for grooming. where she saw the boy (around 20 years old) manipulating her, asking for suggestive photos and things like that, this ended the career of this youtuber, naturally. I also cut off all communication with him.

Another person, and closer to me because we live in the same country so I could see him a couple of times, is a 22 year old, who became even more popular and do you know what happened? On Christmas Eve last year, a youtuber decided to spread a document in which various cases of grooming by this youtuber towards various girls and adolescent girls were reported in detail.
This also ended his career and abandoned his internet, it seems.

Another youtuber and voice actor was also exposed for grooming. Why the hell did grooming become so common among these types of influencers?
 
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GasMonkey

GasMonkey

Nitrogen Master Race
May 15, 2022
1,881
16yo grooming? That age is 100% legal in my country. 😆
 
D

Damnation

Member
Jan 17, 2023
56
I guess it's because of the power dynamic of being an "influencer", makes it easy for people like this to attract minors.
I might regret saying something like this, but I honestly believe our society does a lot that subtly "promotes" the fetishization of young people, and enables potential groomers and abusers. I've met countless people like them. It's strangely normalized online, especially in anime communities.
 
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Suicidebydeath

Suicidebydeath

No chances to be happy - dead inside
Nov 25, 2021
3,559
Grooming is everywhere.

I think grooming is extremely common because hebe(11-14) & ephebophilia(15-19) is. Ephebophilia is legal in majority of countries, especially 18+, it's 16 in my own country too (Western btw). It's not just influencers, its mainstream behaviour.

However it might be easier to expose an influencer (I concur with previous poster they have more opportunities too, also when I streamed myself underage people would romanticize me more than any other category, probably, maybe others did and just don't talk as much), and its obviously more noticeable when someone with a lot of online presence is exposed vs some random person. There are probably many more that are just never caught. You can see a lot of this online in preferred ages.

One influencer I'm thinking of is Cryaotic, who was a pretty big youtuber at one point even if he never streamed his face. After he was exposed for grooming (I only know of 16 y/os, which is under the age of consent in his country, US), and as a side infidelity as well (he had a girlfriend), it pretty much ended his youtube career.

I also concur I think society fetishizes young people. Even my housemates asking me if I like someone, but they're much younger than me, I said "too young for me". They're 18+ but too young. Unrelated to this I was looking up old D&D cartoon and found this mentioned near the bottom of a funny summary of a children's cartoon from 1980s. The characters portrayed are children btw. First episode:
The article is here: https://raoulraoul.livejournal.com/70682.html
Screenshot 19
 
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WhiteRabbit

WhiteRabbit

I'm late, i'm late. For a very important date.
Feb 12, 2019
1,382
Yeah, like the Rick and Morty creator sending messages to a 16 year old. That guy is in his 30's 🤮
 
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Angst Filled Fuck Up

Angst Filled Fuck Up

Visionary
Sep 9, 2018
2,912
James Charles keeps getting busted for this too. Idk why people in such fortunate positions would risk being canceled in such a dumb way.
 
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Suicidebydeath

Suicidebydeath

No chances to be happy - dead inside
Nov 25, 2021
3,559
Yeah, like the Rick and Morty creator sending messages to a 16 year old. That guy is in his 30's
I just googled this, whatever his age those messages are disgusting. Especially from such an influential person, wtf. Major abuse. I'm not going to quote them here, they are offensive af.
James Charles keeps getting busted for this too. Idk why people in such fortunate positions would risk being canceled in such a dumb way.
People feel invulnerable I suppose. That and they can't control themselves.
 
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Suicidebydeath

Suicidebydeath

No chances to be happy - dead inside
Nov 25, 2021
3,559
I was looking into Justin Roiland more, and it looks like the leaks of his messages on Twitter came out after his charges for domestic battery & false imprisonment from 2020 were publicised in 2022. It seems this way, people are scared to come forward until a scandal is publicized, because of the very real threat of backlash etc. I think this stuff goes under the radar a lot. I wish things were different.

Recidivism rates for violent & sexual offenders are quite high even if the rearrest rate is low for some. Some people deserve second chances but controversial or not there are some things people should know about.
 
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BruhXDDDDD

BruhXDDDDD

Student
Feb 18, 2022
166
I often wonder whether the media uproar about it has been a good things because of people who overapply it to such an extreme that it's just petty (e.g. CallMeCarson). It already seems like these people can apply the title of sexual predator to a massive portion of the population that doesn't really merit it. I'm sure it's a problem but I can't empathize with it much anymore.

in your case it sounds justified, though. i just get obsessed over this topic because it's suicide fuel promoted by many of the same people who push the mental health/"safe space" ideology. My friend got driven to a near-fatal overdose over false accusations made in a relationship where he was only around 2 years older.
 
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Alcoholic Teletubby

Alcoholic Teletubby

Rip in piss
Jan 10, 2022
374
Grooming is everywhere.

I think grooming is extremely common because hebe(11-14) & ephebophilia(15-19) is. Ephebophilia is legal in majority of countries, especially 18+, it's 16 in my own country too (Western btw). It's not just influencers, its mainstream behaviour.

However it might be easier to expose an influencer (I concur with previous poster they have more opportunities too, also when I streamed myself underage people would romanticize me more than any other category, probably, maybe others did and just don't talk as much), and its obviously more noticeable when someone with a lot of online presence is exposed vs some random person. There are probably many more that are just never caught. You can see a lot of this online in preferred ages.

One influencer I'm thinking of is Cryaotic, who was a pretty big youtuber at one point even if he never streamed his face. After he was exposed for grooming (I only know of 16 y/os, which is under the age of consent in his country, US), and as a side infidelity as well (he had a girlfriend), it pretty much ended his youtube career.

I also concur I think society fetishizes young people.
The 'gist is that even though we are told that certain behaviors are unacceptable, they are essentially being tolerated by inaction. This results in it being reinforced/continued.
 
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D

Damnation

Member
Jan 17, 2023
56
I often wonder whether the media uproar about it has been a good things because of people who overapply it to such an extreme that it's just petty (e.g. CallMeCarson). It already seems like these people can apply the title of sexual predator to a massive portion of the population that doesn't really merit it. I'm sure it's a problem but I can't empathize with it much anymore.

in your case it sounds justified, though. i just get obsessed over this topic because it's suicide fuel promoted by many of the same people who push the mental health/"safe space" ideology. My friend got driven to a near-fatal overdose over false accusations made in a relationship where he was only around 2 years older.
I see where you're coming from. I have mixed feelings about the general outrage surrounding this topic.

For one, it doesn't feel productive.
Calling out and "cancelling" individuals may damage their career, but I have rarely seen legal action being taken in these cases, and it seems like very little is being done to address the issues that perpetuate the sexualization of minors and make the internet such a dangerous place for them.

Second, it's really extreme.
Most people are uneducated about people who are attracted to minors, and the outrage frequently escalates to violent hatred toward all pedos, to the point where I have seen "kill all pedos" countless times. I get where that hatred comes from, I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel it too, but I think people forget that not everyone with those desires acts on them. Should we really be demonizing an entire group of people based on something that's frequently out of their control?

A lot of people with that kind of attraction are born that way, and plenty more experienced SA as a child themselves. Some people have even gained/lost those desires as a result of brain injuries. Like mental illness, it's not something that people choose for themselves, and they can be dangerous but that's never a guarantee. Reminds me a lot of the way other things are demonized, like queer, neurodivergent, and mentally ill people.

I want to clarify: I don't support acting on those desires and I'll never support the idea that it's like a "sexual orientation" or that they should be considered part of LGBT. At its core, that kind attraction is fundamentally unsustainable and harmful to children, full stop. I just think there has to be a better approach than genocide.

That said, third: Not all groomers are made equal.
Grooming and SA of a child does not always stem from an attraction to minors. A desire to express dominance, power, control, and sadism can drive someone with no attraction to minors to victimize them in these ways; primarily because they're vulnerable targets. So... when people see another grooming incident and automatically direct their hatred toward pedos, there's a chance they completely missed the mark.

These rarely-discussed reasons for abusing children are especially complex when it comes to parents, but my main point is that this won't go away even if you poofed all the pedos out of existence, and worse yet, a lot of these desires are exacerbated by society in ways that few people notice because they always blame this kind of abuse on pedophilia. (Obligatory "we live in a society" or whatever)

Child abuse and grooming happens for many of the same reasons that people victimize minorities and marginalized people. It's especially similar to misogyny.


I'm going to cut this rant short though, because I'm triggering myself just by imagining the responses I might get if I go into more detail on that topic, lol
 
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BruhXDDDDD

BruhXDDDDD

Student
Feb 18, 2022
166
I see where you're coming from. I have mixed feelings about the general outrage surrounding this topic.

For one, it doesn't feel productive.
Calling out and "cancelling" individuals may damage their career, but I have rarely seen legal action being taken in these cases, and it seems like very little is being done to address the issues that perpetuate the sexualization of minors and make the internet such a dangerous place for them.

Second, it's really extreme.
Most people are uneducated about people who are attracted to minors, and the outrage frequently escalates to violent hatred toward all pedos, to the point where I have seen "kill all pedos" countless times. I get where that hatred comes from, I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel it too, but I think people forget that not everyone with those desires acts on them. Should we really be demonizing an entire group of people based on something that's frequently out of their control?

A lot of people with that kind of attraction are born that way, and plenty more experienced SA as a child themselves. Some people have even gained/lost those desires as a result of brain injuries. Like mental illness, it's not something that people choose for themselves, and they can be dangerous but that's never a guarantee. Reminds me a lot of the way other things are demonized, like queer, neurodivergent, and mentally ill people.

I want to clarify: I don't support acting on those desires and I'll never support the idea that it's like a "sexual orientation" or that they should be considered part of LGBT. At its core, that kind attraction is fundamentally unsustainable and harmful to children, full stop. I just think there has to be a better approach than genocide.

That said, third: Not all groomers are made equal.
Grooming and SA of a child does not always stem from an attraction to minors. A desire to express dominance, power, control, and sadism can drive someone with no attraction to minors to victimize them in these ways; primarily because they're vulnerable targets. So... when people see another grooming incident and automatically direct their hatred toward pedos, there's a chance they completely missed the mark.

These rarely-discussed reasons for abusing children are especially complex when it comes to parents, but my main point is that this won't go away even if you poofed all the pedos out of existence, and worse yet, a lot of these desires are exacerbated by society in ways that few people notice because they always blame this kind of abuse on pedophilia. (Obligatory "we live in a society" or whatever)

Child abuse and grooming happens for many of the same reasons that people victimize minorities and marginalized people. It's especially similar to misogyny.


I'm going to cut this rant short though, because I'm triggering myself just by imagining the responses I might get if I go into more detail on that topic, lol
There are two things that concern me:
The first is that some of these cultural standards are new, and not everyone realizes they exist. In most circles, few people are particularly concerned about sex/nude sending between people with <3 years of difference in age, and in most cases, it's legally permissible. That makes me concerned for people who act assuming that almost everyone shares their standards. I'd need there to be actual malice or a willingness to go past social acceptability to "cancel" someone for this kind of thing, and in a lot of cases, that just isn't present.

The second part that concerns me is that the malicious actors tend not to care what other people think about them, while those who made a genuine mistake bear the brunt of the social pressure.
 
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Heartaches

Heartaches

Apologizing for my life and ever entering yours
May 6, 2021
261
I feel grooming has always been a persistent reality on the internet, but only have advocacy, attitudes and conversations surrounding sexual related crimes changed over the past few years.

I remember sometimes going on those chatting room websites in the early 10's and seeing a shit ton of older men in their 30's and 40's asking for young boys/girls to have sex with, to the point they would fill almost the entire screen. Grooming was also highlighted by news networks as a huge issue posed towards social media and online games targeted towards kids around the late 00's-early 10's. There were also early cases of grooming on Youtube, such as the Austin Jones situation, where the initial allegations were dismissed, but was fortunately caught the second time and prosecuted.

However, I think the problem of how grooming has been framed until very recently has the same problem as phenomenoms such as "stranger danger" irl; it is heavily sensationalized and heavily misunderstood. From the effect of trauma on victims and how behaviors can vary, to the methods used by groomers to lure victims, types of grooming and difficulty involving the law.

I think the reason grooming *might* (tho, take me with a grain of salt) has become prevalent, specifically among youtubers, is the same reason why a lot of cases of CSA happen: power.

Most youtubers are in a position of power: they have a relatively large and loyal following; their audience is mostly comprised young kids/adolescents/adults (you'd have a hard time finding many old people using youtube regularly), easily impressionable; they may have something in their favor such as looks, material possessions, charisma, a charitable persona or have done many good deeds; often have connections with other concent creators of similar size and community; their opinions are perceived as having more weight than the average person's, etc.

Having any power in any situation, whether socially, culturally, religiously, economically, materially, mentally, etc. can lead to cases of abuse arousing if it goes unchecked. Unfortunately, many youtubers believe themselves to be above the law or untouchable, sometimes (but not always, there are many reasons why situations aren't brought to light until much later) being fostered by like-minded people, which leads to situations of improper conduct and terrible crimes being covered-up for years.

And from the side of the victim(s), while anyone regardless of their condition can be groomed, there might be specific situations that make someone more vulnerable. For example, having problems at home, being a prior victim of abuse or negligence, lack of parental figures or guardians, bullying, having to hide something from others, lack of healthy relationships, death of a family member or important figure, among other things, can lead to someone becoming a victim of grooming. And speaking out about it can be incredibly hard, not only cause trauma fragments the memory and makes you act differently, but because the topic is still very taboo, you're subjecting yourself to public scrutiny.

There's still a very big culture of shaming victims for speaking out against their perpetrators, not only coming from society at large, but from those who are supposed to protect you: parents, family members, teachers, medical professionals, police, etc. Not only that, but the lack of sufficient resources/education in cases makes it so no one knows how to react or what to do. To these day, many kids are not properly taught how to navigate the internet safely or have safe, curated spaces specifically for them. Parents can't be bothered to check what their kids are doing and let them have unlimited access (although, I've fortunately seen more powers be aware of the potential risks and taking preventive measures to ensure the safety of their children, but many still don't and won't admit fault if something happens to their kid(s))​

I say all of this as someone who was a victim of online grooming for many years, from an early age. Only until very recently have I gotten the courage to talk about what happened to me. It sickens me when I hear cases of young girls/boys being groomed by a well established, well respected member of the YT coomunity. I would never wish the experience upon anyone else, it absolutely breaks you,

There needs to be more awareness and education about cases, effects and ways to help victims of grooming, sexual harassment, sexual abuse and rape. We need more avenues for them to speak about their experiences without getting shit on or invalidated. Society not only needs to stop excusing these behaviors (e.g.: 'boys will be boys', 'women shouldn't dress 'provocatively'', 'boys enjoy 'getting' raped', 'girls are 'asking' for it', 'they should've spoken sooner'), but find ways to reduce the likelihood on them even happening in the first place.

There's still a very long way to go, honestly. Hoping things will change for the better in the future and I hope youtubers stop inappropiately interacting with their fanbases, especially if they're young.​
 
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Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
8,830
Honestly, the world we live in now terrifies me. I had a very traditional, sheltered upbringing. It may have contributed to me being socially inept but I'm grateful for it. Maybe I'm a prude but it actually worries and sickens me how sexualized children are now.

A quick Google of an article in the New York Post claims that:

'More than one in 10 8-year-olds have been exposed to sexting, with that number climbing to just over 42 percent by age 14, according to an analysis of kids' messages by parenting app Jiminy.'

It just scares me. I'm just SO thankful I haven't brought children into this perverted world. I'd have no idea how to protect them without smothering them (in the protective sense.)
 
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T

toomuchtimetodie

"to be overly conscious is a sickness"
Mar 13, 2020
296
We live in a fucked up world.
The very scummy people where a paid drug dealing police informant benefits fraudster father of six with different mother's will be having sex with a fourteen year old and nobody says anything because they want to be on his side because he has 5000 frail idiotic and cowardly stupid followes on social networks.
And is known in the community as big man, he's the same person who spreads lies about a 24 year old man dating an 18 year old lass being a nonce (paedophile)
And his wife and current baby mom even defends him.and makes.the lies more believable. we live in a world of cowardly scum not worthy of being called sheep. They only have empathy for themselves when they become the victim. It's not a good world. I hope my common sense reaches some people.theres slot.of effort and thought going over this horrific world.input into some posts and people don't want to believe it they would rather live in fairy land and go find another scumbag to follow than start making changes to themselves to change the world.
 
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KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,682
A large reason why I am suicidal in the first place and sought out this forum is because I was groomed as a teenager. It had a devastating effect on the trajectory of my life, but what happened to me is becoming far too common, especially with the advent of near universal access to the internet.

I think the reason grooming *might* (tho, take me with a grain of salt) has become prevalent, specifically among youtubers, is the same reason why a lot of cases of CSA happen: power.

I'm so sorry to hear you went through something similar yourself. I agree that in many cases, grooming is motivated by power and the desire to control someone who is younger, less mature, and more malleable. Predators target individuals who they know they can control of, especially young people who are lacking in life experience and self esteem, and are desperate for any crumb of affection or acknowledgement from the adults who were meant to be looking out for them.

As young as around 11/12 years old, I had pedos soliciting sex roleplays from me using online forums. I didn't really understand what was happening, when I was coaxed into these vulgar chats by people much older than me. As you mentioned, this sort of lawlessness was all over the internet in the mid to late 2000s, as moderation on places like omegele and other chat rooms was very sparse. I was a lonely child and I didn't know any better, which made me a prime target for wickedness.

This naietivity later lead to me getting molested by an older guy I had a crush on at school (we met when I was 13 and he was 16, I had 0 actual knowledge of sexual relationships at such a young age) because I was never properly educated about sex or how to avoid manipulation tactics. No one supervised my internet usage past a certain point, so I continued to engage with chat rooms and forums, where people often tried to solicit smut from me because they knew I was bashful, awkward, and could be talked into it- once again, power dynamics coming into play.

While grooming is a vile practice at its core no matter where it is conducted (whether that be in the virtual world or the physical one), there is a certain sort of wickedness when it happens in real life and people turn a blind eye to it. You can give some parents/guardians the benefit of the doubt if they don't monitor their children's Internet access, because they would have no way of knowing what was going on behind closed doors unless their child confided in them. It is an even more tragic story when it happens right under people's noses, and they don't seem concerned about the victim.

In my case, I think people believed I couldn't properly be groomed because I was 17. In many people's eyes, a 17 year old is only just shy of a mature adult, even though I was autistic, still in high school, being bullied, under the care of foster parents, and struggled greatly with functioning. When a man nearly 9 years my elder walked into my life shortly before my 17th birthday, and a few months later started a romance with me, no one seemed to acknowledge the drastic imbalance of power and maturity in our dynamic.

My ex hid my age from people, and deliberately waited until I was 18 before he started sending nude photos of me to people. He knew what he was doing was slimey and immoral, and simply did not care. My first hang out with him alone was him teaching me how to give him a blow job. My friends at school, who were troubled teens themselves, many with drug issues and troubled home lives, remarked that I was finally becoming mature and grown up after I did those things with him.

When I graduated high school, everyone else's parents were in the audience to congratulate them. A 26 year old man was waiting for me to move in with him once I received my diploma. My school knew I was on the verge of homelessness and would be moving in with an adult man, and not one person tried to safeguard me. I was thrust out into the adult world and dependent on an abusive criminal who ruined my self esteem and self worth, then painted me out as the crazy one when I had enough of his abuse. Like many of these youtube personalities, my ex was charming, charismatic, and popular, while I was the awkward, unconfident little girl who was not taken seriously, my accusations were treated as slanderous falsehoods conjured up by a mentally ill loser.

No teenager should ever be put in that situation, to face such gross neglect and failure from the institutions which are meant to protect and nurture adolescents. Sadly, these abuses go unnoticed when parents, family members, and wider communities do not protect and look after their children, creating environments where teenagers are starved for affection and love, therein falling into the trap of sweet talking predators who promise that they will provide this. It is just tragic on so many levels.
 
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randy

Student
Jan 6, 2023
155
20 or 30 years ago, this never got talked about. But it happened.

Now groomers are getting exposed and victims are being taken seriously. It still happens, but now the chances of serious consequences is much higher
 
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BruhXDDDDD

BruhXDDDDD

Student
Feb 18, 2022
166
Honestly, the world we live in now terrifies me. I had a very traditional, sheltered upbringing. It may have contributed to me being socially inept but I'm grateful for it. Maybe I'm a prude but it actually worries and sickens me how sexualized children are now.

A quick Google of an article in the New York Post claims that:

'More than one in 10 8-year-olds have been exposed to sexting, with that number climbing to just over 42 percent by age 14, according to an analysis of kids' messages by parenting app Jiminy.'

It just scares me. I'm just SO thankful I haven't brought children into this perverted world. I'd have no idea how to protect them without smothering them (in the protective sense.)
jesus fuck i want to forget that i just read that. i really hope the definition of "exposed to sexting" is extremely broad or something

also i really want to clarify that i was only referring to close in age situations. if shit that egregious is happen so often then i think i'm okay with going all in
 
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Csmith8827

Csmith8827

Don't you listen to your heart? (Listen to it...)
Oct 26, 2019
851
When you said "grooming" I thought you meant like physical appearance and taking care of yourself lol. In the United States we call it "courting" or courtship. But no like, yea I can totally relate. The whole dating/sex thing is completely fucked up. I'm outta that ring forever thankfully though...💘
 
Kattt

Kattt

Ancient of Mu-Mu
May 18, 2021
796
Parents need to stop parking their kids in front of the computer or TV and give them the attention they so desperately need.
 
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