Discussion Getting a Gun

[Hunter2005]

I'm in the US but does anyone hate that they live in a state where they can't get a gun?

 

[AmericanMary]

Is it actually
Illegal to purchase a gun in some states? (I live in the south)

 

[locked*n*loaded]

No state can make it 100% illegal to purchase a gun, but they can institute all kinds of limits and hurdles one needs to jump through to obtain one.

Are there any neighboring states with more liberal gun laws?

 

[LaughingGoat]

It's ridiculously easy to get a gun in a neighboring state by private seller/gun shows. I'm personally all for gun control, but it's the one positive to living in a country with more guns than people.

Private Gun Sale Laws by State - FindLaw

While the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right of private citizens to keep and bear arms, there are some limits and regulations on how they are sold and who may possess them. Federally licensed firearms dealers are required by federal law to conduct background checks on...

www.findlaw.com

 

[Green_leaf]

I'm in the US but does anyone hate that they live in a state where they can't get a gun?

Seems in Colorado things are a bit more relaxed:

 

[tpboy]

just go to armslist

 

[lonely247]

just go to armslist

They ship to ffl dealers. I need someone to ship the gun directly to me

 

[Neon Grave]

Seems in Colorado things are a bit more relaxed:

Can confirm, as a person in CO who was put in a ward for a suicide attempt, that they will give you a gun anyway. They really don't give two shits as long as you have the money.

 

[UtopianElephant]

It's ridiculously easy to get a gun in a neighboring state by private seller/gun shows. I'm personally all for gun control, but it's the one positive to living in a country with more guns than people.

Private Gun Sale Laws by State - FindLaw

While the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right of private citizens to keep and bear arms, there are some limits and regulations on how they are sold and who may possess them. Federally licensed firearms dealers are required by federal law to conduct background checks on...

www.findlaw.com

Nothing against you, as I'm sure you mean well, but you are offering risky advice to uneducated users. Most gun shows do not have regular private sellers at them that would sell to someone without a background check. Even if a private seller can be found in another state, most would not sell to someone who could not produce a state ID.

Suggesting for someone from this site, likely in a fragile mental condition, to travel to another state to try to obtain a firearm by legally questionable means, is not good advice. I think that this site should discourage people doing risky things like this.

 

[LaughingGoat]

Nothing against you, as I'm sure you mean well, but you are offering risky advice to uneducated users. Most gun shows do not have regular private sellers at them that would sell to someone without a background check. Even if a private seller can be found in another state, most would not sell to someone who could not produce a state ID.

Suggesting for someone from this site, likely in a fragile mental condition, to travel to another state to try to obtain a firearm by legally questionable means, is not good advice. I think that this site should discourage people doing risky things like this.

It's not all that risky unless you are planning to go up to a cop as you cross state lines and say "Hey officer I just bought a gun and am bringing it across state lines". Even that would likely not cause many issues except for handguns or automatic weapons for most states unless you had expressly had your rights to possess denied. If I thought people on this site were looking to obtain them to harm others, I wouldn't mention it but I haven't come across people on this site who seem intend on acquiring guns for that reason. I admit maybe I am naive in that sense.

Regarding obtaining firearms, I'm not sure what to say except I'll agree to disagree. I live in a state with relatively strict gun laws and tons of of people here have gotten guns through private sellers who couldn't care less who bought it as long as they had cash and didn't look like a child. The last data collected on this is about 20% of all guns are purchased with no background check, 50% w/o checks for guns purchased through private sales.

Firearm Acquisition Without Background Checks: Results of a National Survey - PubMed

Fund for a Safer Future and the Joyce Foundation.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

We're talking about people killing themselves, so if we're going to discourage "risky" things I'm not sure how this site will exist. I mean are you against people going over international borders, acquiring N under false premises, and then flying back to their country? People are here to end their misery, their concern isn't necessarily doing things by the book.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Nothing against you, as I'm sure you mean well, but you are offering risky advice to uneducated users. Most gun shows do not have regular private sellers at them that would sell to someone without a background check. Even if a private seller can be found in another state, most would not sell to someone who could not produce a state ID.

Suggesting for someone from this site, likely in a fragile mental condition, to travel to another state to try to obtain a firearm by legally questionable means, is not good advice. I think that this site should discourage people doing risky things like this.

i don't know why it would be risky?

i went to a gun show. i asked some private sellers if they sold without a background. they said they did do a background but pointed me to a guy there at the same gun show that didn't even require ID. i could've bought a gun from him cash no questions no id no background. they were all friendly.

 

[dragonofenvy]

I'm in the US but does anyone hate that they live in a state where they can't get a gun?

You really just need a photo ID and not be a convicted felon or have a judge order you into a psych ward. The latter is all the background check is. Dealers at the ones who stop the overwhelming amount of purchases for reasons in some cases that I've seen as someone being "too eager". I live in a particularly strict state and I have to apply for a concealed carry permit which isn't difficult to get. You take a class online, go to the range for 1 day. Bam done. Then you ask the sheriff for the concealed carry permit online and they mail it to you. Then you go buy a gun. If it's a shotgun or hunting rifle you don't even need to do anything you just need an ID and the ability to pass the background check (not felon, not ordered into a psych ward by a judge).

 

[tpboy]

You are correct but there are many individuals on there where you can have them brought to you. Just look for the private sellers.

 

[UtopianElephant]

i don't know why it would be risky?

i went to a gun show. i asked some private sellers if they sold without a background. they said they did do a background but pointed me to a guy there at the same gun show that didn't even require ID. i could've bought a gun from him cash no questions no id no background. they were all friendly.

That could have been your experience, but it takes a quick internet search and a few min of research regarding private sales at gun shows to learn that private sellers who don't do BC are not very common, and when they are present, they will likely require local ID. Gun shows discourage such private sellers nowadays, from what I read, which makes such transactions there risky.

It's not all that risky unless you are planning to go up to a cop as you cross state lines and say "Hey officer I just bought a gun and am bringing it across state lines". Even that would likely not cause many issues except for handguns or automatic weapons for most states unless you had expressly had your rights to possess denied. If I thought people on this site were looking to obtain them to harm others, I wouldn't mention it but I haven't come across people on this site who seem intend on acquiring guns for that reason. I admit maybe I am naive in that sense.

Regarding obtaining firearms, I'm not sure what to say except I'll agree to disagree. I live in a state with relatively strict gun laws and tons of of people here have gotten guns through private sellers who couldn't care less who bought it as long as they had cash and didn't look like a child. The last data collected on this is about 20% of all guns are purchased with no background check, 50% w/o checks for guns purchased through private sales.

Firearm Acquisition Without Background Checks: Results of a National Survey - PubMed

Fund for a Safer Future and the Joyce Foundation.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

We're talking about people killing themselves, so if we're going to discourage "risky" things I'm not sure how this site will exist. I mean are you against people going over international borders, acquiring N under false premises, and then flying back to their country? People are here to end their misery, their concern isn't necessarily doing things by the book.

It shouldn't be risky at all, not to mention the kind of legal trouble we're talking about. You have to ask yourself whether you personally would try to acquire a gun by the shady means you are suggesting, if you couldn't get a gun legally, and risk prison from that.

I'm against risk in suicide, especially if it could be avoided. The only thing I would have no trouble with people doing, is if Dignitas was open to basically everyone.

Regarding obtaining firearms, I'm not sure what to say except I'll agree to disagree. I live in a state with relatively strict gun laws and tons of of people here have gotten guns through private sellers who couldn't care less who bought it as long as they had cash and didn't look like a child.

Yeah, but people are recommending users from out of state or from another country to try to find private sellers in a less restrictive state. That's a risky proposition, compared to if a person is a resident is in in the same state as a private transaction.

 

[LaughingGoat]

It shouldn't be risky at all, not to mention the kind of legal trouble we're talking about. You have to ask yourself whether you personally would try to acquire a gun by the shady means you are suggesting, if you couldn't get a gun legally, and risk prison from that.

I'm against risk in suicide, especially if it could be avoided. The only thing I would have no trouble with people doing, is if Dignitas was open to basically everyone.


Yeah, but people are recommending users from out of state or from another country to try to find private sellers in a less restrictive state. That's a risky proposition, compared to if a person is a resident is in in the same state as a private transaction.

If you're against risk in any form then I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I think it's pretty much fact that the act of suicide generally involves some risk, usually much more than buying a gun.

The state I live in is ranked the 8th strictest in gun laws and if I didn't have a gun and doubted I could get one here, I absolutely without question would use this means. I know people who have bought guns from neighboring states, I've never even heard of someone getting questioned about it by authorities or them knowing. Not sure if you live here, but crossing states in the US isn't some big deal, you just keep driving. There aren't checkpoints you have to drive through. What is the scenario you're envisioning where someone ends up in prison?

 

[UtopianElephant]

If you're against risk in any form then I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I think it's pretty much fact that the act of suicide generally involves some risk, usually much more than buying a gun.

The state I live in is ranked the 8th strictest in gun laws and if I didn't have a gun and doubted I could get one here, I absolutely without question would use this means. I know people who have bought guns from neighboring states, I've never even heard of someone getting questioned about it by authorities or them knowing. Not sure if you live here, but crossing states in the US isn't some big deal, you just keep driving. There aren't checkpoints you have to drive through. What is the scenario you're envisioning where someone ends up in prison?

Well, someone could have no car and no one to drive them, or could have a physical disability on top of not having a car, or depression, anxiety, addiction, etc on top of that. The things that might make it very difficult to cross states to do an illegal and risky activity are quite numerous- on top of the fact that private sales with just money and a handshake are, at best, legally questionable in most or all states that allow these transactions. If you buy from an agent or cop, or one happens to witness your transaction, you'd not be in a good situation.

I'm frequently surprised how many people think it is easy to get a gun in the US.

 

[LaughingGoat]

Well, someone could have no car and no one to drive them, or could have a physical disability on top of not having a car, or depression, anxiety, addiction, etc on top of that. The things that might make it very difficult to cross states to do an illegal and risky activity are quite numerous- on top of the fact that private sales with just money and a handshake are, at best, legally questionable in most or all states that allow these transactions. If you buy from an agent or cop, or one happens to witness your transaction, you'd not be in a good situation.

I'm frequently surprised how many people think it is easy to get a gun in the US.

I can't tell if I'm being messed with.

If someone doesn't have a car or is physically disabled, then maybe they aren't able to go to another state easily, sure. Are we really arguing the minutiae of a relatively tiny percentage of the population here? If I give thoughts on how to hang full-suspension properly, are you going to argue that I left out tips for someone in a wheelchair?

Cops and federal agents are not posing as sellers on gun marketplaces (which are frequent and legal btw) so they can bust random people buying a single $200 shotgun, the premise is ridiculous. And sure, don't buy guns or drugs in front of cops, you may have issues if you do. I think anyone who would go through the trouble is smart enough to figure that out.

Do you own guns and I'm genuinely interested where in the country you live? I live in Baltimore, guns are stupidly easy to acquire in this country. We have more guns per capita in this country than people, 1.2 per person.

 

[UtopianElephant]

I can't tell if I'm being messed with.

If someone doesn't have a car or is physically disabled, then maybe they aren't able to go to another state easily, sure. Are we really arguing the minutiae of a relatively tiny percentage of the population here? If I give thoughts on how to hang full-suspension properly, are you going to argue that I left out tips for someone in a wheelchair?

Cops and federal agents are not posing as sellers on gun marketplaces (which are frequent and legal btw) so they can bust random people buying a single $200 shotgun, the premise is ridiculous. And sure, don't buy guns or drugs in front of cops, you may have issues if you do. I think anyone who would go through the trouble is smart enough to figure that out.

Do you own guns and I'm genuinely interested where in the country you live? I live in Baltimore, guns are stupidly easy to acquire in this country. We have more guns per capita in this country than people, 1.2 per person.

Maybe it is worth it to argue the minutiae of this supposed tiny percent of people who are unable to get guns here. Because you don't know the number of this population, and are presuming a number in your head, which may not match with reality. You don't really know what percentage of the population have felonies, or psychiatric disqualifications, or drug disqualifications, or disabilities, precluding them from procuring a gun.

I live in a big city in the US, away from the center of the country. Don't own guns and don't know of any easy ways to acquire them.


"I live in Baltimore, guns are stupidly easy to acquire in this country. We have more guns per capita in this country than people, 1.2 per person."

If guns are so easy to acquire for you in Baltimore, or in Maryland, why do you feel you would need to go out of state and illegally acquire one, if you didn't have one? That is a contradaction to your argument.

Maybe that's the trouble with this country, too many people are drinking some invisible Libertarian kool-aid, thinking that since it is easy for them to acquire a gun (illegally, for that matter), then it is easy for 99% of the population. Maybe it's why states like New Jersey, Maryland, Massachussetts, Illinois, etc can enforce draconian gun laws as easily as they do, and people won't bat an eye, until they personally are affected.

 

[LaughingGoat]

Maybe it is worth it to argue the minutiae of this supposed tiny percent of people who are unable to get guns here. Because you don't know the number of this population, and are presuming a number in your head, which may not match with reality. You don't really know what percentage of the population have felonies, or psychiatric disqualifications, or drug disqualifications, or disabilities, precluding them from procuring a gun.

I live in a big city in the US, away from the center of the country. Don't own guns and don't know of any easy ways to acquire them.


"I live in Baltimore, guns are stupidly easy to acquire in this country. We have more guns per capita in this country than people, 1.2 per person."

If guns are so easy to acquire for you in Baltimore, or in Maryland, why do you feel you would need to go out of state and illegally acquire one, if you didn't have one? That is a contradaction to your argument.

Maybe that's the trouble with this country, too many people are drinking some invisible Libertarian kool-aid, thinking that since it is easy for them to acquire a gun (illegally, for that matter), then it is easy for 99% of the population. Maybe it's why states like New Jersey, Maryland, Massachussetts, Illinois, etc can enforce draconian gun laws as easily as they do, and people won't bat an eye, until they personally are affected.

I didn't need to go out of state to acquire guns, but the recommendation is for people that would prefer to do it that way if they think they might get denied. I should I have started with that question if you are familiar with guns or know how they're acquired, so going to bow out of this debate.

 

[UtopianElephant]

It's not a good recommendation, because it's not much different to suggesting that it's very easy to acquire a gun on the streets. It's a similar level of risk / unpredictability for the average person.

Thanks anyway for debating.