Getting a gun in the U.S.

[Onlyout]

Although I'm an American citizen and obtaining a gun here is relatively easy compared to getting it somewhere like the U.K., there's another obstacle I have to consider. I have gone to psychiatric facilities within two U S. States in the last 8 years. Although I have no criminal record, I believe a background check is going to flag me and prevent me from purchasing a gun -- from certain vendors. I think I should still be able to buy a gun at a gun show somewhere like the State of Kansas with ease. Kansas in particular seems to have very lax gun laws.

If anyone can offer more insight about other options that I'm sure I haven't considered, that would help me out a lot.

(After reading through the firearms megathread, it would be great if @thrw_a_way122122 and @TiredHorse could offer some advice on this.)

 

[Aap]

I'll point out that the gun show "loophole" doesn't exist. Literally, it is a fiction. The rules at a gun show for buying a gun are the same at a gun store. The sellers at the gun show must have an FFL, and if you ask to buy one without the standard 4473 and background check, they will assume you are a fed. The same people who speak of the gun show loophole confuse a semi automatic weapon with an automatic one.

your state laws may be more restrictive than the base federal laws, but not less. I'd suggest you look at the laws for your state, review carefully the questions on a 4473, and go from there. Most, if not every, state will not allow the sale of a gun to a non-resident. Again, read the laws for your state carefully and the 4473 form, you may or may not be able to obtain a firearm.

 

[Onlyout]

I'll point out that the gun show "loophole" doesn't exist. Literally, it is a fiction. The rules at a gun show for buying a gun are the same at a gun store. The sellers at the gun show must have an FFL, and if you ask to buy one without the standard 4473 and background check, they will assume you are a fed. The same people who speak of the gun show loophole confuse a semi automatic weapon with an automatic one.

your state laws may be more restrictive than the base federal laws, but not less. I'd suggest you look at the laws for your state, review carefully the questions on a 4473, and go from there. Most, if not every, state will not allow the sale of a gun to a non-resident. Again, read the laws for your state carefully and the 4473 form, you may or may not be able to obtain a firearm.

Damn. I just not a standard handgun to catch the bus. I heard going through a private seller might be a more viable option. After reading all the other methods, unless I can somehow get a lot of barbiturates and sedatives, this seems like the better option to go involving as little time/pain as possible.

 

[Aap]

Again, know your rights and requirements for your state. Look at the exact (not guesses or hearsay) requirements for buying new or used guns and decide what you can do.

 

[Onlyout]

Again, know your rights and requirements for your state. Look at the exact (not guesses or hearsay) requirements for buying new or used guns and decide what you can do.

The red flag law applies in the State I reside in, but no background check is required in any private sales. Do you happen to know any general tips on finding any private sellers of firearms?

 

[brainpain2]

I don't know about US laws but Canadian gun laws are so stringent it's much quicker to get one illegally.

 

[MaisieWilliamsLover]

I am a gun owner in the USA and have been for quite some time. Your hospitalizations wont show up on a background check. As long as you aren't a felon or misdemeanor of domestic assault you will pass. 3 day waiting period worst case scenario.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

The type of hospitalization determines whether or not you will be denied, and each state has its own laws for how long after an involuntary hospitalization you can be denied. I suggest you research for your own state, any states where you had an involuntary hold, and any states you want to buy in.

 

[MaisieWilliamsLover]

It still wont show up on the background check

The type of hospitalization determines whether or not you will be denied, and each state has its own laws for how long after an involuntary hospitalization you can be denied. I suggest you research for your own state, any states where you had an involuntary hold, and any states you want

This is completely untrue. Your medical history doesn't ever show up on a background check. People want that changed but they cant get around hippa. The state where you are admitted has no impact on anything. The only thing that would matter is your own home state laws. As I said earlier though no hospitalizations will show in your background check.

 

[pentobarbitaldreams]

I'm pretty sure the background check only applies if you were committed by a court. I could be wrong though

 

[MaisieWilliamsLover]

I'm pretty sure the background check only applies if you were committed by a court. I could be wrong though

No you're completely right
The point is that this person can get a gun in any pro 2a state

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

It still wont show up on the background check

I disagree. I was coerced at an abusive faculty into an involuntary hold, and the paperwork I was given said, for that state, I could not own a firearm for three years, and where to go to appeal it. So I'm not sure what kind of background checks are done by gunsellers as opposed to potential employers or renters, but there has to be some system for them to access that information.

 

[Aap]

It is state dependent.

 

[MaisieWilliamsLover]

You're wrong. That's just a piece of paper from the hospital. I know all about FFL and the BATF.

I disagree. I was coerced at an abusive faculty into an involuntary hold, and the paperwork I was given said, for that state, I could not own a firearm for three years, and where to go to appeal it. So I'm not sure what kind of background checks are done by gunsellers as opposed to potential employers or renters, but there has to be some system for them to access that information.

You are right. You sure dont know anything about the background check done. It's called the NICS and it's done by the FBI. It is super quick and very thorough but it doesn't include hospitalizations no matter what state you live in

It is state dependent.

The background checks are done federally. The state doesn't have any impact on hospitalizations showing up on a background check. The state laws determine the state legality of possessing firearms.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

You're wrong. That's just a piece of paper from the hospital. I know all about FFL and the BATF.

Oh, did you see my piece of paper with the address of the state court I had to go to if I wanted to appeal? If yes, that's way creepy. If no, then your assertion that I'm wrong...is wrong.

If you are so certain of your knowledge, I assume you have resources. Perhaps it would be of benefit to link resources if it's important to you to influence the OP or anyone else.

It would probably also benefit the OP to do his/her own research to make an informed decision rather than relying on randoms on a forum, including me. And I already suggested s/he do so.

I don't much care, I'm not seeking to buy a gun, and the OP is an adult who is responsible for him/herself, so I'll exit the thread now.

 

[MaisieWilliamsLover]

I am as expert as you can get on this subject. There is no background check that detects your psychiatric history. You have to he adjudicated mentally incompetent by a court to become a prohibited person. That is done in a court hearing not a mental hospital while sectioned. You don't know my credentials but I know i am 100 perecent correct. Just go buy the gun OP.
Oh, did you see my piece of paper with the address of the state court I had to go to if I wanted to appeal? If yes, that's way creepy. If no, then your assertion that I'm wrong...is wrong.

That piece of paper and the court is completely irrelevant. It still isn't going to show up on the National Instant Criminal Background check system (NICS).

 

[Living sucks]

In my state, you are unable to own or be in possession a gun only if you are under court ordered treatment. However it does not state that you are unable to purchase one or if the court order will show up on a background check... however, some states do a mental health check as well to see if you are restricted due to mental health which is different than a background check. because mental health issues aren't "criminal"

 

[MaisieWilliamsLover]

It's a no brainer at this point that this person can purchase the gun. Even a felon can buy a black powder because in that case there is no background check no matter.what state you live in

 

[Aap]

As an ardent gun supporter, I'm embarrassed by those who claim expert status and then display anything but. You are correct in general regarding the NICS system, but look like an ass, as you fail to account for state requirements and state reporting. Certain states do indeed make a record of voluntary hospitalizations.

I'm certainly not stating I agree with any of this, but I would encourage OP to know the laws in his or her state and avoid committing a felony.

Mental Health Reporting

Universal background checks save lives from gun violence.

lawcenter.giffords.org

 

[MaisieWilliamsLover]

Yes but OP only need worry about laws in his home state. The hospitalizations still wont show up in a background check.
I wouldn't concern myself with the law. There's no way for anyone to know unless OP gets caught possessing the gun doing something illegal and the state somehow found out he was prohibited. Not many states do this. Either way you can walk out of the ffl dealer with a gun and nobody knows the better. If I were contemplating suicide by gunshot I wouldn't be too concerned about the law anyhow. I'm going to be using that gun quickly to kill myself so fuck the law.

 

[Aap]

Holy crap, did you fully read what I posted? You are aware you can't walk out of a gun from a gun store in every state, correct?

you seem new and energetic; I'd encourage you to think about harm reduction. Is there harm in encouraging someone to potentially commit a crime without them fully understanding what are the potential consequences? The answer is yes.

rather than claiming "I'm the most knowledgeable poster here about a particular subject, just do what I say," perhaps more circumspect advice is in order, recognizing that posters here come from all over the world.

 

[MaisieWilliamsLover]

You're completely off and missing my point. OP wont get in trouble attempting to buy. At worst they will.just be denied. That's it. The only way they could get into trouble with said gun being prohibited by a state anti 2a hospitalization thing is if OP gets caught committing a crime with the gun. Even here where I live sometimes you cant just walk out because you get a delay but in no state will he go to jail for trying to purchase
Even though there wont be a crime in the first place I still will say since OP is considering putting a bullet in his brain I wouldn't be too worried about legality. Just because you're suicidal doesn't mean you want to go to prison. I understand that but OP won't and will likely be sold the firearm unless you live in a shit state like California, Illinois,New York, Massachusetts, ect. Hell come to MO and I'll sell you mine privately. Unless I know of have reason to know you're a prohibited person (which in MO is felon or domestic violence convict) I can legally sell you the gun. Just depends on your state on whether you can possess it there

 

[rancho]

Are there states where you don't need a license to buy a gun, like at a gun show or something? I went to a gun store in my town and was told that it was easy, I had to the license or permit or whatever, which would require the signature of four people who vouch for me................That stopped me right there, as A. I wouldn't want somebody signing for my death. And, B. I don't think I could get four people close to me, who would not know that there is a chance I would use it for this.

 

[TAW122]

I am probably really late to this thread, but first off, nice profile picture, I'm a Fire Emblem fan and Ross is indeed a great character (especially when he becomes a Berserker ). Now back to the topic at hand, yes what others said here is true about the involuntary commitment thing, and afaik (keep in mind IANAL so this isn't legal advice), you should be able to legally purchase a firearm from a private seller or FFL as long as you weren't adjudicated mentally defective or involuntarily committed (court ordered/judge ordering you to be formally committed to an mental institution). As for private sellers, you would be able to find them through gun ads through certain sites that list private sellers (Armslist, GunBroker, GunsAmerica to name a few, etc.) (always use your judgment and common sense as some people may be scammers), but in various states (some states are lax while others aren't; varies from state to state) private sellers would just be able to sell you the firearm without going through a background check.

@rancho There are a few states, and I think you are looking at going the private sellers route to acquire a firearm. From my answer to @Onlyout, you would look for them on websites that contain gun ads with sellers who post their listings for others to buy. Be aware that when going through a private seller, you may run the risk of some shady/dodgy listings, so proceed with caution and use your discretion, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Always, always do your research carefully.

 

[rancho]

You're completely off and missing my point. OP wont get in trouble attempting to buy. At worst they will.just be denied. That's it. The only way they could get into trouble with said gun being prohibited by a state anti 2a hospitalization thing is if OP gets caught committing a crime with the gun. Even here where I live sometimes you cant just walk out because you get a delay but in no state will he go to jail for trying to purchase
Even though there wont be a crime in the first place I still will say since OP is considering putting a bullet in his brain I wouldn't be too worried about legality. Just because you're suicidal doesn't mean you want to go to prison. I understand that but OP won't and will likely be sold the firearm unless you live in a shit state like California, Illinois,New York, Massachusetts, ect. Hell come to MO and I'll sell you mine privately. Unless I know of have reason to know you're a prohibited person (which in MO is felon or domestic violence convict) I can legally sell you the gun. Just depends on your state on whether you can possess it there

I might take you up on buying your gun in Missouri...............I'm in NY. Are there any nearby states that I don't need a license to buy a gun? Also, why are shotguns at 99%. I would think they are longer and you'd have more of a problem aiming than with a pistol.

I am a gun owner in the USA and have been for quite some time. Your hospitalizations wont show up on a background check. As long as you aren't a felon or misdemeanor of domestic assault you will pass. 3 day waiting period worst case scenario.

Did you have to get four people to sign for you to get your permit/license?
I'm not a street person. Would I find it impossible to buy a gun illegally on the streets?

I am probably really late to this thread, but first off, nice profile picture, I'm a Fire Emblem fan and Ross is indeed a great character (especially when he becomes a Berserker ). Now back to the topic at hand, yes what others said here is true about the involuntary commitment thing, and afaik (keep in mind IANAL so this isn't legal advice), you should be able to legally purchase a firearm from a private seller or FFL as long as you weren't adjudicated mentally defective or involuntarily committed (court ordered/judge ordering you to be formally committed to an mental institution). As for private sellers, you would be able to find them through gun ads through certain sites that list private sellers (Armslist, GunBroker, GunsAmerica to name a few, etc.) (always use your judgment and common sense as some people may be scammers), but in various states (some states are lax while others aren't; varies from state to state) private sellers would just be able to sell you the firearm without going through a background check.

@rancho There are a few states, and I think you are looking at going the private sellers route to acquire a firearm. From my answer to @Onlyout, you would look for them on websites that contain gun ads with sellers who post their listings for others to buy. Be aware that when going through a private seller, you may run the risk of some shady/dodgy listings, so proceed with caution and use your discretion, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. Always, always do your research carefully.

How do you find out if they will sell you a gun without you having a license? I looked up those listings you mentioned and see where some say they are not FFL. I would assume that would make things easier, but how easy?

 

[Jumper]

Background Checks for Firearm Purchase (even without a license) - Involuntary Psych Admission

Background checks are performed directly or indirectly using NICS, the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System. Per federal law, if you've been "committed to a mental institution" you cannot own a firearm. Specification – this does not include a person in a mental institution for observation, or a voluntary admission to a mental institution.

Although there is no federal law requiring states to submit mental health records to NICS, the NICS Improvement Act (2007) lead to funding and new state laws. Now, most states have laws requiring them to submit mental health records to NICS (variable reinforcement and comprehensiveness, however). The mental health records submitted to NICS do include involuntary admissions – and an updated patient privacy rule (2016) has facilitated release of this information from hospitals.

As of 2016, states submitting the most mental health records (per population) included Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Virginia, Delaware, California and New York. Whereas Massachusetts, Alaska, New Hampshire, Montana, and Wyoming were submitting essentially nothing.

Of note, some states have broader mental health restrictions in their state gun laws. For instance, in PA and CA, even a brief psych observation (involuntary hold) makes it illegal for one to own a firearm (expires in 5 years for CA, indefinite for PA). How will they find out, you might wonder, if the stricter criteria isn't included in NICS? Well, many states – particularly point of contact (POC) states – query their own state databases in addition to NICS, and these state databases can include state mental health information. These queries are part of background checking at the time of gun purchase application. For instance, PA uses PICS, which "encompasses a range of criminal and court records, as well as a mental health database that has the name of everyone in Pennsylvania who has been involuntarily committed for mental health treatment or been declared mentally incompetent by a judge."

If your gun application is denied after your background check (this includes the additional databases of POC states), you could be charged with a felony or misdemeanor for your false statement. Some states are getting aggressive about this.

With a felony on your record, you'll have even more reason to CTB but less means.