Genuine question: What is the merit to work/contributing to society/similar concepts?

[dödsängel]

Growing up I was a very ambitious child
I always dreamt of being some sort of elite in whatever field I was in, rich, extremely successful, powerful, whatever
A goal like this requires a lot of work though which was at odds with my natural tendency to be lazy
Despite this, just through last minute rushing, good bullshitting etc, I managed to pull my way through life while being lazy
I'm not saying this to brag, but despite some setbacks I'm currently in a very good university with a really good financial path.
Yet I know that most of this is due to luck. Me just being put in good situations, having the right upbringing, parents, so on and so forth.
The reason I bring this up is because I have this ideal career situation set up, and I always had ambitions since I was young. But I don't see the point or merit in any of it. I always see normies suggesting to losers to get a job or something of the sort, but how is that supposed to hold any merit in itself? Especially if it's a minimum wage job with terrible pay and conditions.
I don't see what inherent value "working" has, naturally if you can get the same outcome with less effort wouldn't you want to do so? I understand the need for a goal, passion, or something to pass time, yet can't that just be your own passion and not some shit job that really only benefits someone else?
I don't really see the value in "contributing to society" either. I mean yes, I understand that I am a part of society, and I have society to thank for not being killed and eaten, getting food, water, etc fairly easily, but at least for me, everything I get from society is transactional. Yes, I may get a house, food, water, electricity, transportation.. but this is only because I paid for it, which in itself money is just made up by society

maybe I'm just rambling, but I hope I'm conveying my point well
The BIGGEST loser trait people often cite is the idea of someone not working, living with their parents, etc etc.. and I really don't see how that's so bad? How is just typing numbers into a spreadsheet any more valuable?
Being honest, most careers are terrible, and the few that genuinely pay well require either countless years of school, going to an elite college, familial connections, etc, etc, and even then that's just not accounting for your own strengths and weaknesses.
People often shit on some rich trust fund kid living off of their parents money, claiming that they didn't earn it, but do we earn anything? A lot of models and actors get rich off of their looks alone, which they were just born with. Most people don't have the intelligence to become doctors or programmers. So on. Who cares if they didn't earn it? Is, say, Michael Jordan's achievements worth any less because if he were a few inches shorter (something entirely genetic) he probably wouldn't have been in the NBA? Not to mention his insane genetic traits, skills, etc. Of course he worked hard and had a good mindset, but you understand my point
And going back to the value of goals and merits, why does this have to be through such a system? I think I'd get much more fulfillment from being a NEET that had a genuine hobby he pursued all the time (say music or something) than working some shit office job. Most people don't really have any meaningful achievements either, so I don't really understand that.
I get that societal functioning is dependent upon this too, but one can acknowledge that yet still realize what's better for an individual or from an individualistic lens. Regardless, we can move past all of this entirely with things like AI and automation.

If you ask me personally, why I was ambitious, it's a very simple and blunt answer. It was really just due to my ego, I thought that I was better than everyone else so I deserved to be above them and the best of the best in life. To do whatever I wanted, have luxury, get worshipped by people, etc. I know full well how much of an asshole that makes me look, but I'm just being honest here. I think that sort of conveys my point to, the fact that I only saw it as worthy because of my own ego rather than any inherent value. But I don't know, I could be wrong.

Anyone have any differing opinions?

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

I think in theory you working in any kind of job is supposed to help the economy grow (benefits others in the economy indirectly) and also allows you to not be a burden on the system. Other tax payers pay for you if you receive food stamps, get social security payments for old age, are imprisoned, or use any kind of shared infrastructure (schools, roads, sidewalks, parks, defence against foreign nations, etc etc) and don't pay taxes or pay a minimal amount. Other members of the economy also do worse off when you don't work.

I think most people also agree that work in general is supposed to be for you to receive payment and survive but also so that you help others and find some meaning in it. Whether those "others" are people in need/ future generations or a wealthy businessman in need of more money probably somewhat depends on your country and the cricumstances of your job.

Conservatives in the US say hard work is honorable because now you are adding to the economy instead of subtracting from it (not saying I agree with the conservatives on most things, but I think thats the general philosphy). Conservatives also believe that it is an individual's responsibility, usually through the church or familial structures, to provide welfare, not the government, which can help explain their worldview. Conservatives derive higher meaning from work by taking pride in being self sufficient, adding to the economy and potentially also choosing to donate.

Liberals say that many individuals, especially the small amount of extremely wealthy people, are too greedy for that to work and that the government should be primarily responsible for welfare. Liberals derive higher meaning from work by taking pride in their contributions to the shared tax base and potentially also choosing to donate.

If you don't have a moral reason for work (like self sufficiency or the tax base) and have no cause to donate to
AND
If you don't have a need to work to sustain yourself

Then it's hard to think of a reason to work. I think almost everyone has to in order to survive and avoid being a homeless wanderer/ vagabond though so it doesn't matter. Actually now that I think about it I'm not sure I've said anything of actual substance here lol

 

[sserafim]

I guess it's because you're expected to owe the world and society something even though they don't owe you anything. Everyone is expected to contribute because they're a member of society (whether they want to be or not). Personally, I don't see the point or value in contributing. I've been a NEET since graduating (an elite) college, and I will be one until I ctb to avoid working for a living. I don't see a point in becoming a slave to the system, and I don't see a reason to participate in or contribute to society. What do I gain out of it? Nothing

 

[juna]

I think the sole merit to work is satisfaction. People get satisfaction from work. I have worked a minimum wage job during my college and I felt satisfied. For some people it is easy to be satisfied. For some, it is impossible to be satisfied with anything. There are millionaires who work all their lives and neglect their families to earn a lot. At the end of the day, it is satisfaction that a person craves for. Also, not to say, we need money to survive too.
At the time of the war, the citizens of thee nation all rallied together to fight and support their country. They were getting satisfaction that they were doing something even if it was just sweeping the streets.

 

[sserafim]

I think the sole merit to work is satisfaction. People get satisfaction from work. I have worked a minimum wage job during my college and I felt satisfied. For some people it is easy to be satisfied. For some, it is impossible to be satisfied with anything. There are millionaires who work all their lives and neglect their families to earn a lot. At the end of the day, it is satisfaction that a person craves for. Also, not to say, we need money to survive too.
At the time of the war, the citizens of thee nation all rallied together to fight and support their country. They were getting satisfaction that they were doing something even if it was just sweeping the streets.

What kind of satisfaction do people get from work? Work is modern day slavery, how would someone get satisfaction out of it? It sounds like Stockholm Syndrome to me

 

[juna]

Indeed work is modern day slavery but there is nothing else to do anyways. Some people get satisfaction. I know I do when I work hard and finish my work. I even get satisfaction when I clean my house or do a simple task.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I guess it's because you're expected to owe the world and society something even though they don't owe you anything. Everyone is expected to contribute because they're a member of society (whether they want to be or not). Personally, I don't see the point or value in contributing. I've been a NEET since graduating (an elite) college, and I will be one until I ctb to avoid working for a living. I don't see a point in becoming a slave to the system, and I don't see a reason to participate in or contribute to society. What do I gain out of it? Nothing

I don't actually think people mean it when they say: 'This society owes you nothing.' I think what they actually mean is: 'This society has already given you things. Now, it's time to start paying back!'... Did you receive an education? Did you receive vacines or healthcare? Did your parents receive healthcare when they had you? Did they claim any kind of child support? Did you visit any parks or museums? Have you walked on the pavements, thrown trash away, recycled? Do you buy food from supermarkets where the farmers receive government grants?

Basically- all of us have received financial support via the big pot of money that everyone is forced to pay into in the form of tax. So- I think when people use that phrase, what they actually mean is: 'You've already been given the same support that other people have. They're out there starting to pay it all back. Why won't you?'

But that all said- I can't say I blame you. Like you would agree I'm sure- we had no choice in coming here. Our parents conscribed us into this wage slavery system. Why should we feel happy to be a part of it?

As to the OP's original post. I think many people work to avoid the stigma of being called a leech on society. Their parents may not actually be able or willing to support them either. So for some, it's the very stark contrast of wage slavery or destitution.

I guess the ideal is that we find a job we actually get fulfilment out of. My job actually used to be the main thing keeping me going! So- it can work in your favour if you get paid for doing what you enjoy but- it's difficult to find such jobs a lot of the time.

 

[TopChicken]

Western society, unfortunately, isn't ready for any meaningful discussion about the nature of work. Too many people have the puritan mindset of work=identity, and if you suggest otherwise, somehow you're the controversial one.

Marx has a good quote about this:


"In communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic"

We should be able to identify with things other than work, or be whatever our whims fancy at the time, but unfortunately it's not that way.

 

[sserafim]

I don't actually think people mean it when they say: 'This society owes you nothing.' I think what they actually mean is: 'This society has already given you things. Now, it's time to start paying back!'... Did you receive an education? Did you receive vacines or healthcare? Did your parents receive healthcare when they had you? Did they claim any kind of child support? Did you visit any parks or museums? Have you walked on the pavements, thrown trash away, recycled? Do you buy food from supermarkets where the farmers receive government grants?

Basically- all of us have received financial support via the big pot of money that everyone is forced to pay into in the form of tax. So- I think when people use that phrase, what they actually mean is: 'You've already been given the same support that other people have. They're out there starting to pay it all back. Why won't you?'

But that all said- I can't say I blame you. Like you would agree I'm sure- we had no choice in coming here. Our parents conscribed us into this wage slavery system. Why should we feel happy to be a part of it?

As to the OP's original post. I think many people work to avoid the stigma of being called a leech on society. Their parents may not actually be able or willing to support them either. So for some, it's the very stark contrast of wage slavery or destitution.

I guess the ideal is that we find a job we actually get fulfilment out of. My job actually used to be the main thing keeping me going! So- it can work in your favour if you get paid for doing what you enjoy but- it's difficult to find such jobs a lot of the time.

I went to a private high school, and higher education in the US is ridiculously expensive. It's basically a business; it's like a cartel. I went to an elite college which my parents paid $200k for. You have to pay for healthcare in the US. It's very expensive; it's one of the biggest businesses. It rakes in billions of dollars in revenue each year. I don't know if my parents received any healthcare when they had me, and if they did, they had to pay for it. My parents didn't claim any kind of child support (because I come from a wealthy family), and you have to pay for museums. Parks are free though. I don't buy food from supermarkets where the farmers receive government grants. Maybe things are different in the UK, but in the US, you have to pay for things. Nothing is free. Maybe taxpayers in the UK get better bang for their buck, but in the US, it seems pointless to me. I don't think that you get any value out of the tax you pay, since everything is privatized. I consider taxation to be wage theft. Every since I was little, I've had anxiety over paying taxes and mortgage.

@DarkRange55 @SexyIncél Any thoughts or ideas?

 

[LevUwU]

I think we as a society hold the concept of "value" of a human life in too high regard. It implies we are meant to owe everyone else for the "gift" of being alive. It's some form of debt we are expected to pay with no reason why we got it. Still, there are certainly things I'm not educated enough to talk about that at least based on that imply "value" of someone's life, the basic merit I would say is probably putting more good/justice in the world than taking it.

 

[4am]

I went to a private high school, and higher education in the US is ridiculously expensive. It's basically a business; it's like a cartel. I went to an elite college which my parents paid $200k for. You have to pay for healthcare in the US. It's very expensive; it's one of the biggest businesses. It rakes in billions of dollars in revenue each year. I don't know if my parents received any healthcare when they had me, and if they did, they had to pay for it. My parents didn't claim any kind of child support (because I come from a wealthy family), and you have to pay for museums. Parks are free though. I don't buy food from supermarkets where the farmers receive government grants. Maybe things are different in the UK, but in the US, you have to pay for things. Nothing is free. Maybe taxpayers in the UK get better bang for their buck, but in the US, it seems pointless to me. I don't think that you get any value out of the tax you pay, since everything is privatized. I consider taxation to be wage theft. Every since I was little, I've had anxiety over paying taxes and mortgage.

@DarkRange55 @SexyIncél Any thoughts or ideas?

how much did high school cost?

 

[sserafim]

how much did high school cost?

Around $145,000 (or maybe even $150,000) I think. It was an elite private school

 

[LevUwU]

I don't think that you get any value out of the tax you pay, since everything is privatized. I consider taxation to be wage theft. Every since I was little, I've had anxiety over paying taxes and mortgage.

There are certainly values to taxes, but God knows our taxes here in the U.S of A are heavily misplaced, mostly into military funds when it could go to social work or NASA - and we certainly pay too much in general, not to mention tipping culture.

 

[murderatruemorgue]

OK, this is gonna sound left field but bear with me.

Many people who believe that productivity and "contributing to society" is the gold standard to an individuals worth believe this because they think that without having societal pressures in place to make people work, that they simply won't.

This isn't strictly true. If you want example, you have to look no further than archive of our own.

Most people go there for fanfiction. It is not monetized. In fact, the site is run through your donations and has even had to fight legal battles to keep open at times. People don't get anything for posting their work except for a pat on the back for writing. In fact, a lot of times people don't even get that. They write it anyway.

And this stuff gets hard-core. There's some fanfiction that is better than most original fiction. The stories range the gamut of heartbreaking, hilarious, sexual, inventive, and introspective. And some are several hundreds of thousands of words long. For some perspective, most novels their requirement is between 70 to 80 K to be considered a novel. The longest story ever written is a fanfiction at 16million words.

People are writing these things that they can likely never see any monetary compensation for, spending weeks, months, years, and even decades working on them. They do it for no other reason they want to.

most people wouldn't actually be happy doing nothing. As much as we push monetary gain as the reason why people persist, so much of what people do has nothing to do with money and everything to do with simply enjoying doing things.

I even struggle to think that laziness truly exists. Everyone has different levels of motivation. Everyone also has different physical capabilities. Laziness has far too often been used as a weapon against people with chronic illness and disability as a way to deny them personal worth.

 

[sserafim]

I think we as a society hold the concept of "value" of a human life in too high regard. It implies we are meant to owe everyone else for the "gift" of being alive. It's some form of debt we are expected to pay with no reason why we got it.

Why do you think is the case? This annoys me. I don't owe anyone, the world, or society anything.

 

[LevUwU]

Why? This annoys me

Why what? Why are we expected to pay back society?

If that's your question it's cause society is a bitch

 

[sserafim]

Why what? Why are we expected to pay back society?

If that's your question it's cause society is a bitch

Yeah. Why does society believe we owe it though? No one asked to be born. If I had a choice, I wouldn't have been born, participate in or contribute to society. I would go somewhere far away because I hate it and other people. I'm definitely not going to pay back society. Society can go fuck off for all I care

 

[Pluto]

Spoiler: Me at work