Venting Friends not getting along and being hypocritical

[Dr Iron Arc]

Surprisingly, my thread has absolutely nothing to do with recent events from within this website even though I have been lurking those certain threads/posts and feel similarly about being ambivalent and refusing to take sides. No, this thread is actually about my real-life friend groups. I apologize in advance if this gets too hard to keep track of.

Recently a friend of mine, let's call him M, was kicked from our mutual friend's discord server. Let's call the owner of this server W. M is known for saying things off-color and offensive. He's also a known compulsive liar which he admits is hard for him to control. W is already pissed off at M because M lied about the fact he did meet up with another friend of ours (I'll call him N, and no not as in Nembutal). N has a really good heart but we all are concerned for him because he keeps going to his work even though they've had plenty of Covid scares. No matter how much we keep telling him to either find another job or take two weeks off to quarantine, he keeps coming back just because he found a coworker he's attracted to (which I can relate to tbh but still).

Anyways, so M lied about hanging out with N which W called him out for. We have another friend (let's call her A) who is understandably concerned about all the exposure and has expressed concerns about both M and N hanging out with her and her boyfriend E when he comes to visit next week. The thing that actually got M kicked out yesterday though was because he apparently accidentally said something that deeply offended E (who admittedly gets offended quite easily). Now I don't know the full details about what he said or why it was so bad, but it is still weird to see him being ostracized and cast aside so harshly for something this considering what we all get away with on a daily basis.

Back in July, W had a falling out with a different group of friends, specifically two of them. I'll call this group II. W really hates II for being immature but I honestly chalk that up to them being like 5 years younger than us and would make many of the same mistakes they have. Anyway, W's split from II left me feeling so fractured that I dipped out of both sides entirely to let them sort it out for themselves, which they still haven't. The frustrating thing about it was how both groups tried showing concern for me which pisses me off because either they only wanted me to be on their side (which makes them stupid since no one should value my input), or they both genuinely were concerned about me yet couldn't let that settle their differences (which is even stupider). Since then I have tried to maintain friendships with both groups though W keeps making it hard because he keeps badmouthing people who make small mistakes.

That is, people except for me. What pisses me off most about W is he won't badmouth me, not to my face and not to other people. I still say and do a lot of genuinely concerning and evil things and yet W seems blind to it. I don't know what exactly is wrong with me. I think I just hate to see people who are supposed to be my friends fighting with each other. Maybe I'm just a huge narcissist here, but I feel like W is being hypocritical for being so willing to kick M out over this slight and not someone as horrible as me. This is a pretty common issue with practically all of my friends. They're all so moralistic and virtue-based, yet they still keep me around for some reason and are more reluctant to point out my faults while calling out my other friends behind their backs for really inane stuff in comparison to what they should be aware I'm capable of. I think what makes me incredibly selfish and cruel is that I literally don't want people to give a shit about me just as much as I don't care about them unless maybe if they were someone I'd want to sleep with, which is nobody in my friends circle. I wish I could just walk out of it all but when I tried, too many people got concerned. :/

Anyway, I'm not sure what to expect by ranting about this here. I guess I just needed to vent about it. I really do hate how it keeps happening where two parties I respect end up in conflict. Even if it's for a good reason I just don't know what to do about it because I can't even hope to take a side knowing I'd just end up hating whatever side I choose anyway.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I'm curious as to what kinds of things you do that you think you should be criticized for by your friends.

I don't think there's anything wrong with not taking sides if there's genuinely no ethical offense, or if it's just interpersonal toxicity that needs to play out without interference. In fact, I think it's healthy.

I've noticed irl that people get uncomfortable and even offended if someone won't take sides. Honestly, I think from what I observe that it's because they feel weak in their position and they want someone to back them up, and if they're not backed up, they feel deeply criticized for their own ish they're not facing. In short, insecurity. It takes a certain centeredness to stand in one's own position without support and/or without being drawn in.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I'm curious as to what kinds of things you do that you think you should be criticized for by your friends.

Well some of them are very concerned about certain hyper-progressive values which I've repeatedly made clear that I am neutral about or that at very least I have my own nuanced opinions about certain things that don't really gel with theirs. It wouldn't bother me so much if they wouldn't also tend to call other people out for not being PC enough though. They also claim other friends of ours are being manipulative when I'm literally standing right there which strikes me as weird that they don't seem to realize I've manipulated them into seeing value in me.

Besides that, they're mostly just things my friends have accused other friends of doing and have gotten mad for and they're too many to list. I know they aren't talking behind my back or secretly resent me because many of my friends tend to make it very clear when they don't like someone after a brief period of being two faced around them. The worst thing is when they confide in me about other people who I know aren't acting as bad as I would in their situation...

I don't think there's anything wrong with not taking sides if there's genuinely no ethical offense, or if it's just interpersonal toxicity that needs to play out without interference. In fact, I think it's healthy.

I've noticed irl that people get uncomfortable and even offended if someone won't take sides. Honestly, I think from what I observe that it's because they feel weak in their position and they want someone to back them up, and if they're not backed up, they feel deeply criticized for their own ish they're not facing. In short, insecurity. It takes a certain centeredness to stand in one's own position without support and/or without being drawn in.

That's how I feel when it comes to taking sides too most of the time, though the difference for me would be that even in ethical issues, I also tend to abstain because I end up having huge self doubt about my choices. "If I'm supposed to be evil, then does that mean my ethical choices are actually the unethical ones" and all that.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

They also claim other friends of ours are being manipulative when I'm literally standing right there which strikes me as weird that they don't seem to realize I've manipulated them into seeing value in me.

Now I'm curious again!

 

[Disappointered]

They probably respect you for some reason, perhaps because they expect that you'll be a wealthy successful member of society. I had two overlapping 'friends' who backstabbed and manipulated me on and off over the course of a couple of decades and after finally getting rid of them I found myself friendless. They're fine; they have their tribe. Not me. They lied to other people in front of me so I can only guess at how many times they lied to me. I can see how it's irritating hypocrisy but hey, at least you know they have a reason to keep you around over others.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Now I'm curious again!

You and me both! To be honest, I'm not sure how exactly I've done it, but the fact alone that they want to keep me around as a friend despite my shortcomings feels like it could only have been due to some sneaky manipulating on my part. I really can't get a good answer from them other than that I'm nice but if that's all there is to it then I KNOW that has to be manipulation on my part because I only act nice out of self interest.

They probably respect you for some reason, perhaps because they expect that you'll be a wealthy successful member of society.

I don't know, I also make it pretty clear that I'm stupid and have no applicable skills. I frequently make it a point to show that I'm bad when it comes to everything computers and technology which may as well be a cardinal sin for someone in their mid 20s. I really hope they don't expect anything like that from me because I'm guaranteed to disappoint them on that front...

 

[_Kaira_]

I can't say for exact, as I've never had many or any at all IRL friends. But I have had plenty of friend groups from various video games over the years. Almost all of the ones I've been in fell apart for various- person A vrs person B reasons. I don't speak for everyone, but at least for me, I'm much more at peace being a friendless person than being a stressed person constantly involved or in the middle of battles I never asked for.

The last one I was in was about a year ago. Online-dating issues and all that. 2 females, 2 males invloved. 1 of the guys disappeared, the 2 girls were pissed off I wasn't on the girlfriend's side over the boyfriend's. The boyfriend ended up disappeared completely, the 1 other male came back, last I heard of them the 2 girls and dude were besties still playing games together all the time. Long story short? I decided the drama and ending up getting the shaft for other peoples' issues is not worth it.

Again, this is just me. If people expect you to choose a side of a battle you were never in, then they probably wouldn't be the first people I'd choose to spend my time with. Overall, if they're toxic to other people but still being chill with you, doesn't sound like the kindest person to be around. Also dealt with people like that, will actively talk bad about others, but as soon as they're mad at you, they'll start talking bad about you.

My experience of course. I can't say much about your specific situation.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I can't say for exact, as I've never had many or any at all IRL friends. But I have had plenty of friend groups from various video games over the years. Almost all of the ones I've been in fell apart for various- person A vrs person B reasons. I don't speak for everyone, but at least for me, I'm much more at peace being a friendless person than being a stressed person constantly involved or in the middle of battles I never asked for.

The last one I was in was about a year ago. Online-dating issues and all that. 2 females, 2 males invloved. 1 of the guys disappeared, the 2 girls were pissed off I wasn't on the girlfriend's side over the boyfriend's. The boyfriend ended up disappeared completely, the 1 other male came back, last I heard of them the 2 girls and dude were besties still playing games together all the time. Long story short? I decided the drama and ending up getting the shaft for other peoples' issues is not worth it.

Again, this is just me. If people expect you to choose a side of a battle you were never in, then they probably wouldn't be the first people I'd choose to spend my time with. Overall, if they're toxic to other people but still being chill with you, doesn't sound like the kindest person to be around. Also dealt with people like that, will actively talk bad about others, but as soon as they're mad at you, they'll start talking bad about you.

My experience of course. I can't say much about your specific situation.

Thank you for sharing your experience. No one has asked me to choose sides yet about this most recent thing, but I know I'm going to inevitably be urged to anyway. If it comes to that, I'm probably gonna step out for at least another month again if I have to.

It just feels so weird to hear about one friend being so toxic to another when they themselves are also toxic to others yet none of them will be toxic to me for any reason even though I'm definitely toxic, you know?

 

[_Kaira_]

Thank you for sharing your experience. No one has asked me to choose sides yet about this most recent thing, but I know I'm going to inevitably be urged to anyway. If it comes to that, I'm probably gonna step out for at least another month again if I have to.

It just feels so weird to hear about one friend being so toxic to another when they themselves are also toxic to others yet none of them will be toxic to me for any reason even though I'm definitely toxic, you know?

Hopefully though that they don't. Worst feeling ever that left me reeling. Lost people I really enjoyed talking to, and for what? For a romantic relationship I was never a part of? To this day I still don't know who was telling the truth (was over a cheating issue). But yeah...a very very garbage situation. Hurts enough before they even start to involve you, for sure.

And yeah, I can see that. You're not the issue until you are made to be one

 

[woxihuanni]

I havr an instant distrust of people who use the word 'toxic'.

 

[_Kaira_]

I havr an instant distrust of people who use the word 'toxic'.

Well sorry, it's just the word I think of when it comes to less than pleasant people. The word 'toxic' itself means poisonous. And on google: very harmful or unpleasant in a pervasive or insidious way. So therefore, it is correct in this usage.

Plus I'm just an idiot who has played way too many games for too long. Gamer speak is nearly my main language .

 

[woxihuanni]

Well sorry, it's just the word I think of when it comes to less than pleasant people. The word 'toxic' itself means poisonous. And on google: very harmful or unpleasant in a pervasive or insidious way. So therefore, it is correct in this use.

You are on my ignore list.

 

[_Kaira_]

You are on my ignore list.

But why though? Actually genuinely confused, like what? lol

 

[Deleted member 17949]

My brain is too fried to read all of that but it does seem like typical friend group bs drama where a chain of individually kinda meaningless things get slowly blown out of proportion due to accumulated resentment and frustration. I don't think anyone here deserves to be badmouthed, certainly not you. Sadly it is just a reality sometimes that two groups of people you like fall out and it is hard to maintain connections with both of them. That's just social dynamics for you. Case point: people are difficult and I prefer to isolate myself in my room.