Discussion Free speech & Racism.

[DeutscheKartoffel]

I couldn't help think about why American model of multiculturalism don't work.

Having thought about it, I've reached the conclusion that free speech are in fact, in inverse proportion to how well different ethnic groups integrate within a society.

If heavy fine/ potential imprisonment is imposed on racist act in public/online under US jurisdictions,
cases of racism/hate crimes would drastically reduce.

America should learn from Germany/New Zealand in this respect.

 

[Amumu]

America should learn from Germany/New Zealand in this respect.

The latter countries are heaven ofc.

Committing a crime >< Being an asshole

I hope this thread won't derail, good luck.

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

I couldn't help think about why American model of multiculturalism don't work.

Having thought about it, I've reached the conclusion that free speech are in fact, in inverse proportion to how well different ethnic groups integrate within a society.

If heavy fine/ potential imprisonment is imposed on racist act in public/online under US jurisdictions,
cases of racism/hate crimes would drastically reduce.

America should learn from Germany/New Zealand in this respect.

I think it's better to catch the crimes before they're spoken by scanning brains or by asking for citizens to proactively report anyone that may harbor racist beliefs for interrogation.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

This type of stuff only makes the problem worse. People are rotten. They always will be. You can't fix racism or prevent racist thoughts. And we know people act out and develop an anti-stance when they're not allowed to do something, it's basic psychology. So if you make racism illegal online and in public, three guesses how that's gonna go.

We should always strive for an increase in tolerance (for all groups, instead of just promoting white guilt as we do now) and a rise in global consciousness so that we get there organically, instead of anti free speech rhetoric and social media lynch mobs. It's possible (and preferable) for people to be better without all this enforced garbage and policing, but I'm worried we won't see that before it's too late (and we set some dangerous precedents).

 

[ket]

This type of stuff only makes the problem worse. People are rotten. They always will be. You can't fix racism or prevent racist thoughts. And we know people act out and develop an anti-stance when they're not allowed to do something, it's basic psychology. So if you make racism illegal online and in public, three guesses how that's gonna go.

We should always strive for an increase in tolerance (for all groups, instead of just promoting white guilt as we do now) and a rise in global consciousness so that we get there organically, instead of anti free speech rhetoric and social media lynch mobs. It's possible (and preferable) for people to be better without all this enforced garbage and policing, but I'm worried we won't see that before it's too late (and we set some dangerous precedents).

we've made so much progress with racial tolerance in this country, let alone the world. you can fix racism. it's difficult, but doable, and we've been doing it. a couple centuries ago, black people were treated as property and a decade ago we elected a black man as president. this is absolutely progress, and it's important to see more. it's not some "reverse psychology" thing. you're not supposed to yell fire in a crowded theater either, and people don't just do that out of spite.

also, trying to make people aware of their implicit racial biases isn't "promoting white guilt." yes i know you can find people on twitter or w/e who specifically dump on white people, but you can find people online saying all sorts of bizarre shit. i think you may be reading into certain things incorrectly if you think the goal of tolerance is to ultimately make white people feel bad.

 

[DeutscheKartoffel]

This type of stuff only makes the problem worse. People are rotten. They always will be. You can't fix racism or prevent racist thoughts. And we know people act out and develop an anti-stance when they're not allowed to do something, it's basic psychology. So if you make racism illegal online and in public, three guesses how that's gonna go.

We should always strive for an increase in tolerance (for all groups, instead of just promoting white guilt as we do now) and a rise in global consciousness so that we get there organically, instead of anti free speech rhetoric and social media lynch mobs. It's possible (and preferable) for people to be better without all this enforced garbage and policing, but I'm worried we won't see that before it's too late (and we set some dangerous precedents).

America must have been the most lassiez-faire democracy, letting everything roam free, and then letting it takes its own course without intention to intervene..


White guilt is pretty lame, no idea why people enjoys falling for that tbh..

The thing with racism is that, I believe, the accepting people are already integrating well with minority groups. It's always the radical ones causing problems, free speech or not.

Enforcing hate speech restrictions, the extremely rare terrorism retaliation is a small price to pay in exchange for having control over racial issues nationwide. Besides the extremists pay with life sentence in return.

It would be pretty difficult to convince hardcore racist/extremists otherwise.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

we've made so much progress with racial tolerance in this country, let alone the world. you can fix racism. it's difficult, but doable, and we've been doing it. a couple centuries ago, black people were treated as property and a decade ago we elected a black man as president. this is absolutely progress, and it's important to see more. it's not some "reverse psychology" thing. you're not supposed to yell fire in a crowded theater either, and people don't just do that out of spite.

also, trying to make people aware of their implicit racial biases isn't "promoting white guilt." yes i know you can find people on twitter or w/e who specifically dump on white people, but you can find people online saying all sorts of bizarre shit. i think you may be reading into certain things incorrectly if you think the goal of tolerance is to ultimately make white people feel bad.

Half the news stories I read these days are "white woman denies entry to black man at Starbucks" etc. That's not progress. We don't promote love as a society. We have nothing but division and conflict and I only see it getting worse. People become nettled when they give in to this media tripe, whether social or mainstream. And of course everyone wishes racism could simply vanish but I think it's a naïve concept. It's like trying to eradicate every ant in existence. I mean you can try, but good luck. It's more natural to accept the human condition. It's flawed, of course it is, but what are you going to do? Like I said, we're all rotten, and we all fuck up.

 

[ket]

Half the news stories I read these days are "white woman denies entry to black man at Starbucks" etc. That's not progress. We don't promote love as a society. We have nothing but division and conflict and I only see it getting worse. People become nettled when they give in to this media tripe, whether social or mainstream. And of course everyone wishes racism could simply vanish but I think it's a naïve concept. It's like trying to eradicate every ant in existence. I mean you can try, but good luck. It's more natural to accept the human condition. It's flawed, of course it is, but what are you going to do? Like I said, we're all rotten, and we all fuck up.

that's not news i've ever seen, and certainly not half of it. not that it doesn't happen (or like when that starbucks employee didn't serve a cop or threw something in the drink or whatever it was), but it isn't a widespread issue. if you're seeing it this regularly, i think it more of a case of what media you're consuming and whatever agenda they've got.

also what, looking at people of other colors and creeds and treating them like human beings without making snap judgements based on cultural biases is… really not like trying to step on all the ants on earth.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

that's not news i've ever seen, and certainly not half of it. not that it doesn't happen (or like when that starbucks employee didn't serve a cop or threw something in the drink or whatever it was), but it isn't a widespread issue. if you're seeing it this regularly, i think it more of a case of what media you're consuming and whatever agenda they've got.

also what, looking at people of other colors and creeds and treating them like human beings without making snap judgements based on cultural biases is… really not like trying to step on all the ants on earth.

I mean true overt racism has been illegal for a long time now. Everything as such is equal opportunity. And that's all positive. But I think when you get into the territory of thought police, it gets dangerous. And yes, where I'm from, most of the news seems geared towards angering a particular group of people at the expense of another. The media here plays people like a fiddle.

I guess I see everything as being cyclical too. We keep revisiting the same problems without making any real changes, so I see it all as a bit futile, hence the ant analogy. I think if we all started preaching acceptance, by way of the mainstream too, we could see an actual improvement. This as opposed to all the pseudo-righteousness and "seeking out justice" that we have now. It only seems to embitter people. Believe me, I come from a good place, I just think we need to approach it all differently.

 

[Insomniac]

I couldn't help think about why American model of multiculturalism don't work.

Having thought about it, I've reached the conclusion that free speech are in fact, in inverse proportion to how well different ethnic groups integrate within a society.

If heavy fine/ potential imprisonment is imposed on racist act in public/online under US jurisdictions,
cases of racism/hate crimes would drastically reduce.

America should learn from Germany/New Zealand in this respect.

do you mean to say that if people express violence in their words, they won't have any left for their actions.

I don't believe so. the actual counter intuitive argument is to state the opposite, which is that violence and racism will grow proportionally with increase in free speech.

In old times, to settle conflicts between different side, marriage were made on every level. Today, even thought Governements are trying to marry each other somehow, it doesn't mean that there will be union on other institutional levels like familial for example. Not suggesting interracial breeding either.

Conflict is the natural state of things. Even if we suffocate on some end, it eventually comes back in a more sophisticated form. In other words, I think we should get over it.

 

[netrezven]

For me only stupid creatures, like some humans, can just hate someone because of his race.

 

[CrossroadsCurious]

A racism discussion thread in a suicide forum. Why... just why?

 

[Insomniac]

A racism discussion thread in a suicide forum. Why... just why?

but why not lol

we're in off-topics

 

[CrossroadsCurious]

Mostly because these posts just devolve into member infighting. :(

 

[Grey-zoner]

Suicide forum = a whole lot of confused angst and passion. As long as the in-fighting is contained, I suppose it's cathartic, no?

 

[WrongPlaceWrongTime]

Racism and discrimination is part of human nature (tribalism), so trying to forcefully make people stop thinking a certain way is counterproductive, not to mention people in free speech countries are entitled to the right to be assholes (until they become violent). I think a partial solution might be to cut down on the 'diversity' agenda. Given the current state of the US, trying to mix different groups is the same as mixing water with electricity.

 

[Fragile]

As much as I despise racism, banning and punishing the speech of racists is literally Never the solution, in fact, it just hides it and makes it even more insidious. You don't wake up from your prejudices after paying thousands of dollars or spending some time in a cell, some people just grow even more prejudicial after that.

Like, there are countries with capital punishment and life imprisonment, people still commit crimes deserving of those sentences every single day. The fact that there are deterrents does not mean that it will solve the issue.


That's the thing with freedom of expression, as long as you want your freedom, you have to tolerate the messages of some shit people. Taking their voices only mean that someone else may take yours at some point.