Help For permanent death to occur, how long without oxygen (using Nitrogen/Inert Gas Method)?

[how2toGetout]

How long would it take without oxygen, using Nitrogen/Inert Gas Method, to achieve permanent death (to the point of irrecoverable death, even if found and resuscitations are performed)?

Is 40 minutes enough to achieve complete permanent irrecoverable death, as mentioned in 'Exit bag and inert gas megathread'? (The megathread by TiredHorse is listed as one of the resource methods in List of Resources section in the Discussion page).

The link to 'Exit bag and inert gas megathread': https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/exit-bag-and-inert-gas-megathread.8393/

What's the reasoning behind the 40 minutes time window?

I keep reading 4-6 minutes is for brain cells to die, when i do google search online:
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UCSB Science Line

(<- says about 3 to 6 minutes for brain death to occur)
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CPR - adult and child after onset of puberty: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

CPR stands for cardiopulmonary resuscitation. It is a lifesaving procedure that is done when someone's breathing or heartbeat has stopped. This may happen after an electric shock, drowning, or heart attack.

medlineplus.gov

(<- says about 4 to 6 minutes for brain death to occur)

But how long does it take major organs like heart and lung to die?

 

[how2toGetout]

The following post from the 'Exit bag and inert gas megathread' seems to answer my question but still i would like more answers/questions.

In this post I would like to discuss the challenge of controlling the flow of the inert gas. The post has dual intent: to get someone to review my calculations and spot mistakes if any, and to help others with theirs.

Sources: post by TiredHorse that started this thread, TPP Handbook, Five Last Acts, Final Exit.

I'll skip the part with constructing the bag, that is covered enough, and will go straight to the gas (Helium/Nitrogen, with Helium being my choice) and tubings.

I'm going to use metric system throughout. My imperial friends can just remember that 1 inch is 2.54 cm, and 1 cu ft is 28 liters.

Recommended flow
Recommended "Letal dose" by varied sources is 125..250 liters. This being inert gas, it isn't letal per se, as it works by pushing away oxygen. So this dose is just amount of inert gas that is enough to maintain big enough flow for big enough time.

How much flow is big enough? 10-15 liters per minute. If it is too little, carbon dioxide may not be evacuated fast enough and panic will happen, or the bag can stick to nose/mouth, causing unpleasant experience.

How much time is long enough? Time to unconsciousness is on average 25 seconds (10-120 seconds), and time to death is on average 13 minutes (2-40 minutes). I did not find where the point of no return is, i.e. whether the flow needs to be stable up until the death, or can be stopped sooner. Sources recommend gas to last for 20 minutes.

From here we can see how important it is to set the right flow: too little, and you are up to very unpeasant experience, too much, and gas runs out too soon, causing you to survive but have permament brain damage (I could not find info on how likely this is, and how that brain damage will manifest itself - info appreciated).

View attachment 4573

I'll talk in a moment about how to control gas flow, but first let's think how we can measure it, to ensure we set it up correctly.

Standard small balloon has diameter of 9 inch. This is 0.2286 meters. Radius is 0.114 meters. Volume is (=4/3*pi*r^3) 6 liters. That means once everything is set up, you can connect balloon to your tubing, and see how quickly it inflates, and calculate you effective flow. I.e. if balloon inflates in 20 seconds, flow is 18 liters per minute. Call it a poor man's flow meter.

Knowing balloon size, you can also calculate tank volume in case they provide it's capacity in balloons. I.e. if they say tank can fill 200 9 inch balloons, you can calculate that it has capacity of 1200 liters. It is safer though to get industrual tank that specifies volume in standard liters.

View attachment 4574

Another important consideration is whether the gas is pure. There have been reports of balloon gas sold being not pure Helium, but diluted with air. They do so to save money, and also to prevent suicides. The way I handled it, is by purchasing oxygen meter, inflating a balloon from each of the tanks, and putting oxygen meter sensor inside the balloon. Measurement shows less than 1% oxygen, so gas is pure in my case.

I've got three tanks here, with volumes of ~300, ~900, and ~2400 liters. Let's calculate flow required if using either of these.

View attachment 4575

As we see, if I were to use the smallest tank, I need to control flow very precisely, and it is too easy to make it too small, or too large, causing failure. So bigger tank is preferred. With biggest tank I have the most flexibility.

Once I set up flow control, I can measure the flow using a balloon method described earlier.

Next post: how to control the flow.

Anyone who wants to shed more insights to the question would greatly be appreciated

 

[Backwood_tilt]

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