Resource Firearms Info - Hope this is helpful...

[summers]

I know firearms have been discussed on SS before, but I wanted to share a little of my experience and knowledge on this subject.

I will post an Armslist thread soon. For those in the know, they screwed up the search royally on the site, but you can still really filter down if you know how to modify the urls and what the caliber search terms are.

Shotguns
Definitely the firearm of choice to ctb. Legally, the barrel has to be 18" and 26" overall weapon length. Pump or single shot would be the way to go as far as price and availability. Semi auto and/or magazine fed would also work, but cost more.

Ideally, if pump or semi-auto, one would want a tube that only holds 4 shells. The tubes that hold 6 shells tend to be as long as a 20" barrel, and fitting both the barrel and tube in your mouth could be awkward.

Shotgun barrels can be shortened easily using a hacksaw, band saw, or even pipe cutter. If you use a pipe cutter, they tend to crush a little, making the diameter slightly smaller. Won't affect buck shot, but may affect a slug. (Probably not substantially, though). Depending on what kind of front sight is attached, you may need to cut the barrel for comfort.

One thing that I will re-mention is double barrel shotguns can not fire both barrels simultaneously without modification (which may be illegal). Also, side by side and over under shotguns tend to be very expensive.

Handguns
The main thing to keep in mind is that hollow points typically take a few inches to expand in a ballistics gel medium. This is a very dense and consistent medium the bullet is moving through. I wouldn't count on full expansion in the 1-2" to the MO through the mouth.

For this reason, I think the only calibers to consider should be a .45 or .44 mag. Yes, smaller will work, but why take the chance. You can get a high point 45 for around $200.

Rifles/Carbines
I really only have experience with 556 ARs and 9mm carbines. The 223/556 is a very small, but fast bullet. Don't know if I would trust it though. I would not count on any appreciable expansion from a HP.

One interesting option may be a binary trigger. These allow one bullet to be shot on the trigger pull, and one on the trigger release. Basically every trigger pull is a double tap. I have two, and both took additional parts, and a lot of fiddling to get them to run consistently. Next time I go to the range, I'm going to test the double tap with a very limp finger for the release and report back. These go for about $300, so close to 50% of the price of a cheap AR.

Not pushing high point, but they sell a 45 carbine for cheap. Should get good velocity of out that.

I'm sure an AK (7.62), .308, 30-06 or bigger would work. Haven't really checked prices on these rifles, but most bolt actions are reasonable and super reliable.

Ammo
These would be my recommendations:

Shotgun - 12 gauge only (not 20 gauge). 00 Buck or Slugs (or some HD combo)

Handgun
45 or 44 mag. Good quality HP. +P if available

AR Rifle
5.56 instead of .223. Good quality (match grade) ammo. Don't count on HP expansion.

Other rifle
50bmg - probably even better than 12gauge :)

 

[SackOfCrap445]

I know firearms have been discussed on SS before, but I wanted to share a little of my experience and knowledge on this subject.

I will post an Armslist thread soon. For those in the know, they screwed up the search royally on the site, but you can still really filter down if you know how to modify the urls and what the caliber search terms are.

Shotguns
Definitely the firearm of choice to ctb. Legally, the barrel has to be 18" and 26" overall weapon length. Pump or single shot would be the way to go as far as price and availability. Semi auto and/or magazine fed would also work, but cost more.

Ideally, if pump or semi-auto, one would want a tube that only holds 4 shells. The tubes that hold 6 shells tend to be as long as a 20" barrel, and fitting both the barrel and tube in your mouth could be awkward.

Shotgun barrels can be shortened easily using a hacksaw, band saw, or even pipe cutter. If you use a pipe cutter, they tend to crush a little, making the diameter slightly smaller. Won't affect buck shot, but may affect a slug. (Probably not substantially, though). Depending on what kind of front sight is attached, you may need to cut the barrel for comfort.

One thing that I will re-mention is double barrel shotguns can not fire both barrels simultaneously without modification (which may be illegal). Also, side by side and over under shotguns tend to be very expensive.

Handguns
The main thing to keep in mind is that hollow points typically take a few inches to expand in a ballistics gel medium. This is a very dense and consistent medium the bullet is moving through. I wouldn't count on full expansion in the 1-2" to the MO through the mouth.

For this reason, I think the only calibers to consider should be a .45 or .44 mag. Yes, smaller will work, but why take the chance. You can get a high point 45 for around $200.

Rifles/Carbines
I really only have experience with 556 ARs and 9mm carbines. The 223/556 is a very small, but fast bullet. Don't know if I would trust it though. I would not count on any appreciable expansion from a HP.

One interesting option may be a binary trigger. These allow one bullet to be shot on the trigger pull, and one on the trigger release. Basically every trigger pull is a double tap. I have two, and both took additional parts, and a lot of fiddling to get them to run consistently. Next time I go to the range, I'm going to test the double tap with a very limp finger for the release and report back. These go for about $300, so close to 50% of the price of a cheap AR.

Not pushing high point, but they sell a 45 carbine for cheap. Should get good velocity of out that.

I'm sure an AK (7.62), .308, 30-06 or bigger would work. Haven't really checked prices on these rifles, but most bolt actions are reasonable and super reliable.

Ammo
These would be my recommendations:

Shotgun - 12 gauge only (not 20 gauge). 00 Buck or Slugs (or some HD combo)

Handgun
45 or 44 mag. Good quality HP. +P if available

AR Rifle
5.56 instead of .223. Good quality (match grade) ammo. Don't count on HP expansion.

Other rifle
50bmg - probably even better than 12gauge :)

Should I worry about accuracy if I use a sawed off Remington 870? I've read that one of the cons of sawed off shotguns is that the barrel adds accuracy that you end up losing when you saw it off.

 

[genoke]

In terms of handguns the 357 reigns supreme in one shot stops. I paid 35 dollars to read some academic study on self-inflicted gun shot wounds. Shooting yourself in the mouth with a handgun you have a 70% chance of survival. Temple you have a 45-to 30% chance of survival.

You want a full power buffalo bore heavy 357 mag or an underwood firing at 1400 fps and you'll get the job done.

According to that study of this specific hospital over 15 years the most deadly calibers were:

.357
.45 and .44 were tied.
.40
.9mm

Do not shoot yourself in the mouth with a handgun unless youve studied different material than me. +P is also not necessary for a .45 you add only 10% more fps for 150% more recoil. 44's also don't offer +P and if you use a .44 there's just too much recoil to control reliably one-handed unless you're experienced and very strong.

Blood loss is the number one cause of death with handguns, not brain damage, so make sure you're in the middle of nowhere, preferably standing in a pond or river, on blood thinners. Wear a weighted vest. Fly fishing waders. You'll be warm and comfy. And with a weighted vest you'll go into shock and drown immediately. Ammo is everything, so much more important than caliber. There are hot loads and weak loads for all calibers to even things out. Ballistic research is a long and tedious process and I've done it.

Finding actual data on suicides to specific regions on a large scale isn't possible.

If someone has any information or studies that mouth shots are more successful than temporal shots that cross both regions of the brain with handguns please let me know.

 

[Anonperson1]

In terms of handguns the 357 reigns supreme in one shot stops. I paid 35 dollars to read some academic study on self-inflicted gun shot wounds. Shooting yourself in the mouth with a handgun you have a 70% chance of survival. Temple you have a 45-to 30% chance of survival.

You want a full power buffalo bore heavy 357 mag or an underwood firing at 1400 fps and you'll get the job done.

According to that study of this specific hospital over 15 years the most deadly calibers were:

.357
.45 and .44 were tied.
.40
.9mm

Do not shoot yourself in the mouth with a handgun unless youve studied different material than me. +P is also not necessary for a .45 you add only 10% more fps for 150% more recoil. 44's also don't offer +P and if you use a .44 there's just too much recoil to control reliably one-handed unless you're experienced.

Blood loss is the number one cause of death with handguns, not brain damage, so make sure you're in the middle of nowhere, preferably standing in a pond or river, on blood thinners. Wear a weighted vest. Fly fishing waders. You'll be warm and comfy. And with a weighted vest you'll go into shock and drown immediately. Ammo is everything, so much more important than caliber. There are hot loads and weak loads for all calibers to even things out. Ballistic research is a long and tedious process and I've done it.

Finding actual data on suicides to specific regions on a large scale isn't possible.

If someone has any information or studies that mouth shots are more successful than temporal shots that cross both regions of the brain with handguns please let me know.

I read this and the survival rate and time to death is nasty

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8203010/

Really offputting to be honest.

 

[genoke]

I read this and the survival rate and time to death is nasty

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8203010/

Really offputting to be honest.

Terrifying. This is why I'd only do it in a body of water up to my armpits. There's no way I'm gonna get up and climb to shore... so. Man. 379 minute average until time of death for self inflicted gun shot wounds. Very strange a .44 doesn't kill you immediately but will put down a grizzly.

To be honest.. I don't believe all these sites on the front pages of Google. If I saw someone shoot themselves in the temple with a 6 inch 357 with hot HP ammo. It's not gonna take him 4-5 hours to die. I know that.

It means 379 minutes avg mortality after time of medical intervention.

 

[lifeisbutadream]

Pennsylvania politician R.Budd Dwyer publically killed himself in 1987. He shot himself in the mouth with a .357 revolver and appeared to die instantly. The video used to be available online. I don't know if it still is.

 

[suffering_mo_7]

In terms of handguns the 357 reigns supreme in one shot stops. I paid 35 dollars to read some academic study on self-inflicted gun shot wounds. Shooting yourself in the mouth with a handgun you have a 70% chance of survival. Temple you have a 45-to 30% chance of survival.

You want a full power buffalo bore heavy 357 mag or an underwood firing at 1400 fps and you'll get the job done.

According to that study of this specific hospital over 15 years the most deadly calibers were:

.357
.45 and .44 were tied.
.40
.9mm

Do not shoot yourself in the mouth with a handgun unless youve studied different material than me. +P is also not necessary for a .45 you add only 10% more fps for 150% more recoil. 44's also don't offer +P and if you use a .44 there's just too much recoil to control reliably one-handed unless you're experienced and very strong.

Blood loss is the number one cause of death with handguns, not brain damage, so make sure you're in the middle of nowhere, preferably standing in a pond or river, on blood thinners. Wear a weighted vest. Fly fishing waders. You'll be warm and comfy. And with a weighted vest you'll go into shock and drown immediately. Ammo is everything, so much more important than caliber. There are hot loads and weak loads for all calibers to even things out. Ballistic research is a long and tedious process and I've done it.

Finding actual data on suicides to specific regions on a large scale isn't possible.

If someone has any information or studies that mouth shots are more successful than temporal shots that cross both regions of the brain with handguns please let me know.

@genoke Please site your sources for these statistics. A handgun in the mouth with that kind of survival rate specifically. That's not the statistics that I have come across. A high survival like that doesn't seem likely. If you consider under the chin shots, etc, I thought handgun was still more successful. I thought in the mouth, at an angle is the best, versus temple, but not upwards towards the face.

 

[genoke]

@genoke Please site your sources for these statistics. A handgun in the mouth with that kind of survival rate specifically. That's not the statistics that I have come across.

What I read was an obscure academic article from a hospital over 15 years. I can dig it up somehow. But you'll have to pay 35 dollars to read it and you only have access for 48 hours. I can dig it up somehow.

This hospital said all handgun shots in the mouth ended with 70% survival rate.

9mm to temple. 45% survival rate.
.40 42%
.45 40%
.44 40%
.357 35%

Key takeaways: blood loss is number one cause of death.

Bullet must cross both regions of brain.

You want high velocity personal defense rounds that don't overpenetrate like .44s do.

Your age and general health.

The Glasgow scale. I believe if you're score is 8 or below you have no chance of survival.

They run several tests before they decide if you are worth the surgery.

Many they just don't bother performing surgery there's too much damage and fragmentation and if the patient is not aware and can follow your fingers with his eyes that's a bad sign for you. I can't imagine being shot by a 357 and being able to focus on anyone's fingers.

Can you send me a study that shows shots to the mouth are more successful? Trust me they don't exist.

90% of people who commit suicide do it Hollywood style to the temple. It feels like the most natural way. If so many people failed by this method people would know not to every try it. That's not the case. The FL chief of police shot himself on the highway last year fighting with his wife and he shot himself in the temple with a 9mm and all he did was blow his eyes out and lost everything. Now he's living in hell with no eyes no job no wife no respect and no money. She called cops they sent a helicopter and he survived because they responded within minutes. One of many reasons why you don't shoot yourself in front of other people.

The Harvard study 85% of CTB attempts with a firearm end in mortality is not backed up by any real data at all. And some sites say 90%. No way the number is even close to that high. Half do it impulsively in front of other people. I just don't believe 90% of people understand ammo or firearms enough for that kind of number.

Do you think that number is true?

Also anyone ready to fire a .44 in their mouth has never fired a .44 before.

 

[suffering_mo_7]

I struggle with that number, 70% survival rate, with gun through the mouth. It doesn't even seem possible or make sense. I do believe the temple shot and under the chin shots are going to have a much greater survival rate than through the mouth. But most are going to have an aversion to putting a gun in their mouth. The chief you are referring to actually seems to have recovered better than I expected after looking up his story. The article I read said that his wife hit his hand away before, throwing his aim off, or it would have been deadly.

I'm not sure why you don't believe the high success rates for gun suicide. As you said, many are impulsive. But even still, it's highly successful for the most part.

This article shows about a 16% survival rate and that is for all shots, which can include chest shot. Head shots are statistically more successful as you said, to the temple or under the chin, or in mouth, pointed at face, or a lower caliber, I would expect higher failure. I would agree with you that it's definitely better to be secluded.

MYTH: Gun suicide is not more lethal than other means - GVPedia

FACT: Attempted suicides by firearms have an 82.5% fatality rate, versus a fatality rate of 4% for all suicide attempts.

www.gvpedia.org

I think people have an aversion, understandably, to putting a gun in their mouth.... that's why the temple.


I also thought of something.... not sure why we would rely on a hospital to give us statistics about gun lethality. Most dead people don't go to the hospital, only the ones who aren't dead....so I guess for ones who are still alive when taken, the survival statistics you provided could be more believable. I still struggle with the idea that in the mouth at the right angle towards the brain would be less deadly than in the temple. My guess, again, is that majority of shots are at the temple.

Gunshot Wound Head Trauma

Gunshot wounds to the head have become a leading cause of traumatic brain injury (TBI) in many urban areas in the U.S. due, in part, to a surge in gang

www.aans.org

 

[zengiraffe]

I've done a lot research on the subject and everything I have learned contradicts most of what @genoke has said so far in this thread.

• a 12 gauge shotgun is more effective than a 357 revolver
• a 44 revolver is more effective than a 357 revolver
• shots into the mouth, gun pointed upward toward the soft palate, are more effective than temple shots
• temple shots are actually horrible since you can miss the brain entirely and will just end up severing your optic nerves and make yourself blind instead of dead, if you must shoot yourself in the side of the head you should aim behind your ear
• as dumb as it is to shoot yourself in the temple, 45% survival rate still sounds too high to me
• 70% survival rate from shots into the mouth sounds absurd to me, unless they are counting people who just shot themselves into the back of the throat without attempting to point the gun up toward the brain whatsoever, or if they made the complete opposite mistake and pointed the gun under their chin and blew their face off without ever hitting the brain either, but even with people making those mistakes a 70% survival rate still sounds crazy to me, I don't believe it
• the recoil produced by the gun and ammo doesn't matter, since recoil only affects follow-up shot speed and accuracy, not first shot accuracy

If you are lurking this thread please take everything @genoke has said so far with a healthy dose of skepticism. Right now it's just what I said vs what he said, but hopefully more SaSu users who are educated on firearms and firearm suicides can chime in so we can build a consensus.

 

[genoke]

I've done a lot research on the subject and everything I have learned contradicts most of what @genoke has said so far in this thread.

• a 12 gauge shotgun is more effective than a 357 revolver
• a 44 revolver is more effective than a 357 revolver
• shots into the mouth, gun pointed upward toward the soft palate, are more effective than temple shots
• temple shots are actually horrible since you can miss the brain entirely and will just end up severing your optic nerves and make yourself blind instead of dead, if you must shoot yourself in the side of the head you should aim behind your ear
• as dumb as it is to shoot yourself in the temple, 45% survival rate still sounds too high to me
• 70% survival rate from shots into the mouth sounds absurd to me, unless they are counting people who just shot themselves into the back of the throat without attempting to point the gun up toward the brain whatsoever, or if they made the complete opposite mistake and pointed the gun under their chin and blew their face off without ever hitting the brain either, but even with people making those mistakes a 70% survival rate still sounds crazy to me, I don't believe it
• the recoil produced by the gun and ammo doesn't matter, since recoil only affects follow-up shot speed and accuracy, not first shot accuracy

If you are lurking this thread please take everything @genoke has said so far with a healthy dose of skepticism. Right now it's just what I said vs what he said, but hopefully more SaSu users who are educated on firearms and firearm suicides can chime in so we can build a consensus.

I struggle with that number, 70% survival rate, with gun through the mouth. It doesn't even seem possible or make sense. I do believe the temple shot and under the chin shots are going to have a much greater survival rate than through the mouth. But most are going to have an aversion to putting a gun in their mouth. The chief you are referring to actually seems to have recovered better than I expected after looking up his story. The article I read said that his wife hit his hand away before, throwing his aim off, or it would have been deadly.

I'm not sure why you don't believe the high success rates for gun suicide. As you said, many are impulsive. But even still, it's highly successful for the most part.

This article shows about a 16% survival rate and that is for all shots, which can include chest shot. Head shots are statistically more successful as you said, to the temple or under the chin, or in mouth, pointed at face, or a lower caliber, I would expect higher failure. I would agree with you that it's definitely better to be secluded.

MYTH: Gun suicide is not more lethal than other means - GVPedia

FACT: Attempted suicides by firearms have an 82.5% fatality rate, versus a fatality rate of 4% for all suicide attempts.

www.gvpedia.org

I think people have an aversion, understandably, to putting a gun in their mouth.... that's why the temple.


I also thought of something.... not sure why we would rely on a hospital to give us statistics about gun lethality. Most dead people don't go to the hospital, only the ones who aren't dead....so I guess for ones who are still alive when taken, the survival statistics you provided could be more believable. I still struggle with the idea that in the mouth at the right angle towards the brain would be less deadly than in the temple. My guess, again, is that majority of shots are at the temple.

Gunshot Wound Head Trauma

Gunshot wounds to the head have become a leading cause of traumatic brain injury (TBI) in many urban areas in the U.S. due, in part, to a surge in gang

www.aans.org

I never said it was definitive, I think I called it "an obscure academic article from one hospital over 15 years." And "there is no reliable mass data on this."

But for me I'd go temple by instinct alone, just make sure you don't aim too far forward. There are no studies on the internet I can find that suggest intraoral injuries are more damaging than temporal injuries that cross both hemispheres. If you can find anything that suggest introral injuries lead to higher and/ or quicker mortality please show me. Hypothetically yes. Real world data on this is so hard to find. I do know in quora when people react to someone killing themselves in the temple there are a hundred replies "my 'loved one' died this way, I just want to know if he suffered." So yes, temple shots work.

That is a good point. Maybe many intraoral injuries died before getting to hospital.

I am not an expert on anything, I never claimed to be. And I don't want anyone to shoot themselves I am in no way encouraging that with any of my posts. I just want people to get it done the right way so they dont suffer a life of hell. To me? It's temple shot with 357 or 44 in a body of water or shotgun, alone. Nothing fancy. That's just my instinct. And there is no data that says otherwise I've seen. You raised a great point though. I have no horse in this race I just want the truth. If 82% of CTB are successful and you discount all the low calibers, the 22's and chin shots or people who didn't use HPs or jerked or reflexed, temple shots obviously get the job done.

I didn't consider the people who did intraoral were already dead, but there is still no data it's more lethal. If there is, please send it to me.

I struggle with that number, 70% survival rate, with gun through the mouth. It doesn't even seem possible or make sense. I do believe the temple shot and under the chin shots are going to have a much greater survival rate than through the mouth. But most are going to have an aversion to putting a gun in their mouth. The chief you are referring to actually seems to have recovered better than I expected after looking up his story. The article I read said that his wife hit his hand away before, throwing his aim off, or it would have been deadly.

I'm not sure why you don't believe the high success rates for gun suicide. As you said, many are impulsive. But even still, it's highly successful for the most part.

This article shows about a 16% survival rate and that is for all shots, which can include chest shot. Head shots are statistically more successful as you said, to the temple or under the chin, or in mouth, pointed at face, or a lower caliber, I would expect higher failure. I would agree with you that it's definitely better to be secluded.

MYTH: Gun suicide is not more lethal than other means - GVPedia

FACT: Attempted suicides by firearms have an 82.5% fatality rate, versus a fatality rate of 4% for all suicide attempts.

www.gvpedia.org

I think people have an aversion, understandably, to putting a gun in their mouth.... that's why the temple.


I also thought of something.... not sure why we would rely on a hospital to give us statistics about gun lethality. Most dead people don't go to the hospital, only the ones who aren't dead....so I guess for ones who are still alive when taken, the survival statistics you provided could be more believable. I still struggle with the idea that in the mouth at the right angle towards the brain would be less deadly than in the temple. My guess, again, is that majority of shots are at the temple.

Gunshot Wound Head Trauma

Gunshot wounds to the head have become a leading cause of traumatic brain injury (TBI) in many urban areas in the U.S. due, in part, to a surge in gang

www.aans.org

 

[lifeisbutadream]

I never said it was definitive, I think I called it "an obscure academic article from one hospital over 15 years." And "there is no reliable mass data on this."

But for me I'd go temple by instinct alone, just make sure you don't aim too far forward. There are no studies on the internet I can find that suggest intraoral injuries are more damaging than temporal injuries that cross both hemispheres. If you can find anything that suggest introral injuries lead to higher and/ or quicker mortality please show me. Hypothetically yes. Real world data on this is so hard to find. I do know in quora when people react to someone killing themselves in the temple there are a hundred replies "my 'loved one' died this way, I just want to know if he suffered." So yes, temple shots work.

That is a good point. Maybe many intraoral injuries died before getting to hospital.

I am not an expert on anything, I never claimed to be. And I don't want anyone to shoot themselves I am in no way encouraging that with any of my posts. I just want people to get it done the right way so they dont suffer a life of hell. To me? It's temple shot with 357 or 44 in a body of water or shotgun, alone. Nothing fancy. That's just my instinct. And there is no data that says otherwise I've seen. You raised a great point though. I have no horse in this race I just want the truth. If 82% of CTB are successful and you discount all the low calibers, the 22's and chin shots or people who didn't use HPs or jerked or reflexed, temple shots obviously get the job done.

I didn't consider the people who did intraoral were already dead, but there is still no data it's more lethal. If there is, please send it to me.

The biggest danger to temple shots is the possibility of flinching and moving at the last split second, as well as not aiming correctly, while in the mouth the barrel is braced and there's much less chance of that. Just center it and point it slightly upward (see the very long thread on firearms for illustrations).

There used to be a video online showing a video camera recording a person who was arrested and then left alone in the interrogation room. The camera shows the person had a handgun hidden in his belt. When the officer left the room and left him alone he pulled the gun out and put it at the side of his head and shot himself. He appeared to die immediately. Gun looked like a 9 mm.

Good posts above. I agree with everything you said, Zeng., except I'd change this

"A 12 gauge shotgun is more effective than a .357 revolver"

to:

A 12 gauge shotgun is FAR more effective than a .357 revolver

A .357 revolver, tho, is what Mr. Dwyer used so effectively.

 

[genoke]

The biggest danger to temple shots is the possibility of flinching and moving at the last split second, as well as not aiming correctly, while in the mouth the barrel is braced and there's much less chance of that. Just center it and point it slightly upward (see the very long thread on firearms for illustrations).

There used to be a video online showing a video camera recording a person who was arrested and then left alone in the interrogation room. The camera shows the person had a handgun hidden in his belt. When the officer left the room and left him alone he pulled the gun out and put it at the side of his head and shot himself. He appeared to die immediately. Gun looked like a 9 mm.

Good posts above. I agree with everything you said, Zeng., except I'd change this

"A 12 gauge shotgun is more effective than a .357 revolver"

to:

A 12 gauge shotgun is FAR more effective than a .357 revolver

A .357 revolver, tho, is what Mr. Dwyer used so effectively.

I definitely never said a .357 was more powerful than a shotgun that wasn't me. It was a clever first sentence though to invalidate me.

Obviously a .44 is more powerful than a .357. Do you have any info on .44s before more successful in CTB attempts than a .357? And what fps is the minimum?

He gave no data. Why would anyone ever jerk or reflex...? I don't understand. That barrel would be dug so deep in my skull already to create a seal and crater. I'm genuinely curious, why would someone ever flinch during a temple shot? Just that idea in my head now makes me think it's possible. But.. no. I would not flinch. Firing a. 44 in my mouth I can't say I'd flinch but I'd be scared. I'm also scared of the recoil of a 44 on a temple shot which is literally twice the recoil of a 357.

Do you believe overpenetration is a myth? Some do. Most don't. FBI definitely doesn't. Most 44s wildly overpenetrate but yes. They do far more devastating damage.

 

[lifeisbutadream]

Genoke - Sorry u thought that i was attacking you or being hostile to you. That most certainly wasn't my intention.

"Why would anyone [flinch]?"

Involuntary survival instinct.

"I'm also scared of the recoil..."

No need to be. You'd never feel it. It occurs simultaneously with the discharge. That was already mentioned someplace on this thread.

"Do you believe overpenetration is a myth?"

No of course not, but it doesn't concern us, unless u plan on doing it with other people nearby.

"That barrel would be dug so deep in my skull already to create a seal and crater"

OK. So then you still favor the side of head? I don't, one reason being I favor a shotgun and that would be very awkward, unless i suppose you were to saw the barrel very short, but even so the consensus seems to be the mouth, especially with a shotgun. But the person in the video i mentioned used a handgun at the side of the head very quickly and effectively.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I've seen hundreds of gun suicides and shootings on Watching people die website. To me all the ones I've seen they were unconscious and dead instantly.

https://watchpeopledie.tv/

I would say if you practice dry firing. And put a 12 gauge shotgun or rifle or 357 magnum deep in the mouth aim up 45 degrees. Grip the gun firmly with teeth . 99.9% with a shotgun or rifle

This video is of a baby 20 gauge shotgun not the powerful 12 gauge and it still exploded this gel head







As someone said above a 357 magnum goes 1400 fps but a 300 win mag rifle can go at 3400 fps feet per second

I read a hunting forum they said at 3400 fps it will split a coyote in half

Think about a peice of steel flying at 1 kilometer per second no one is surviving a head or heart shot

 

[clitoralcancer]

In terms of handguns the 357 reigns supreme in one shot stops. I paid 35 dollars to read some academic study on self-inflicted gun shot wounds. Shooting yourself in the mouth with a handgun you have a 70% chance of survival. Temple you have a 45-to 30% chance of survival.

You want a full power buffalo bore heavy 357 mag or an underwood firing at 1400 fps and you'll get the job done.

According to that study of this specific hospital over 15 years the most deadly calibers were:

.357
.45 and .44 were tied.
.40
.9mm

Do not shoot yourself in the mouth with a handgun unless youve studied different material than me. +P is also not necessary for a .45 you add only 10% more fps for 150% more recoil. 44's also don't offer +P and if you use a .44 there's just too much recoil to control reliably one-handed unless you're experienced and very strong.

Blood loss is the number one cause of death with handguns, not brain damage, so make sure you're in the middle of nowhere, preferably standing in a pond or river, on blood thinners. Wear a weighted vest. Fly fishing waders. You'll be warm and comfy. And with a weighted vest you'll go into shock and drown immediately. Ammo is everything, so much more important than caliber. There are hot loads and weak loads for all calibers to even things out. Ballistic research is a long and tedious process and I've done it.

Finding actual data on suicides to specific regions on a large scale isn't possible.

If someone has any information or studies that mouth shots are more successful than temporal shots that cross both regions of the brain with handguns please let me know.

Genoak, I saw your private message, I apologize I just saw it, I will be reaching out in the next couple days to touch base, thank you for venting, I hope you are hanging in there, no pun intended also thank you so so much for getting me pointed in the right direction, I learned a great deal and a show is coming up this weekend hoping to purchase on Sunday. Having something on hand is going to give me great peace of mind, the time to act may not be now but tick tock tick tock, as we discussed this is a long time coming.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I've done a lot research on the subject and everything I have learned contradicts most of what @genoke has said so far in this thread.

• a 12 gauge shotgun is more effective than a 357 revolver
• a 44 revolver is more effective than a 357 revolver
• shots into the mouth, gun pointed upward toward the soft palate, are more effective than temple shots
• temple shots are actually horrible since you can miss the brain entirely and will just end up severing your optic nerves and make yourself blind instead of dead, if you must shoot yourself in the side of the head you should aim behind your ear
• as dumb as it is to shoot yourself in the temple, 45% survival rate still sounds too high to me
• 70% survival rate from shots into the mouth sounds absurd to me, unless they are counting people who just shot themselves into the back of the throat without attempting to point the gun up toward the brain whatsoever, or if they made the complete opposite mistake and pointed the gun under their chin and blew their face off without ever hitting the brain either, but even with people making those mistakes a 70% survival rate still sounds crazy to me, I don't believe it
• the recoil produced by the gun and ammo doesn't matter, since recoil only affects follow-up shot speed and accuracy, not first shot accuracy

If you are lurking this thread please take everything @genoke has said so far with a healthy dose of skepticism. Right now it's just what I said vs what he said, but hopefully more SaSu users who are educated on firearms and firearm suicides can chime in so we can build a consensus.

THIS is the correct info, FULL STOP.

 

[Alexandra0]

I have also been studying the topic of firearms for quite some time. It is definitely better to use a 12 gauge shotgun than a pistol. It is not necessary to cut the trunk; you can reach it with your finger (you can use a branch). There is an opinion that it is better to shoot in the mouth. And the butt needs to be rested on the ground. And then, with a high degree of probability, you will die without suffering