Discussion firearms - and a query

[bearly]

The denizens of this site seem to be predominantly American.
So one question, as a European, I can be quite envious of the ease with which you an obtain firearms. Where I live, handguns are forbidden.
The success rate with discharging a firearm to the head (inserting barrel into mouth) is almost 100%. It is quick and probably painless. Why bother with all of the more exotic and uncertain means (at least the non-pharmacologic )approaches, jumping or hanging...

 

[TiredHorse]

For me, I don't want to use a firearm (of which I own several adequate to the task) because of the trauma it would cause my family to see me with my brains blown out. Firearms make a pretty dramatic mess of your head. I know my family will want to see my corpse, and if I can spare them the distress of seeing me so maimed, I would rather do that.

Other people I have spoken to are resistant to using a gun because of PTSD, or are simply afraid of guns --just as other people would never consider jumping because they're afraid of heights.

Speaking theoretically, it is not necessarily so easy to get a firearm here in the US as many non-US residents believe.

Each of the 50 states has its own set of paperwork and legal requirements, some of which must be completed before the purchase, some at the time of the purchase. Some of those states, such as here in Washington State, make it ridiculously easy to get a gun, but others, such as Massachusetts or New York, are very, very restrictive, to the point where you might as well be in Europe.

One universal disqualifier from owning a gun is if you have been involuntarily committed for mental health reasons --which you'll soon find, from reading around this site, includeds a significant percentage of the forum. Unless you want to learn about "black powder" muzzle-loaders, which are not restricted, that takes the gun option off the table right from the outset.

There's also the fact that firearms are expensive; the cheapest option, a shotgun, will typically cost around $200 new, which can be a lot of money, and a basic handgun will easily cost more than twice that. Used guns are cheaper, but if you are not already part of "gun culture," the process of buying a used gun can be both confusing and daunting --even more so than for buying a new gun. Black powder guns, and their operation, are another labyrinth entirely, so despite their being less expensive than cartridge guns, the learning curve is daunting. Then there are the costs of the paperwork, tax, etc.

So yes, the method is very reliable. But not everyone has access to it, and it is not appropriate for everyone for any number of reasons.

 

[OkTotti]

I live in America, New York City to be exact, and I have no clue on how to obtain a firearm.... so it's not easy as you've read...

 

[TAW122]

@TiredHorse sums it up pretty well. I'm fortunate that I live in a state that isn't restrictive when it comes to firearms and that I have a clean record as well as meeting all the requirements to legally obtain one.

In North Carolina, the only thing that is restrictive is the pistol purchase permit law, which requires ALL people who are looking to obtain a handgun (pistol/revolver) to get an application by the sheriff of the county they reside in (100 counties in NC), pass their arbitrary requirements (some sheriffs are more stringent than others), just to be able to get a piece of paper to purchase a pistol. The pistol purchase permit can be waived if one has a CCW (conceal carry weapon) permit, but that also requires a lot of background checks, fingerprints, and also a CCW course (actually firing your weapon at a range) and passing a test. If you are getting a pistol through a private sales, not through a FFL dealer, you'll still need the pistol purchase permit.

As far as long guns are concerned, all you have to do is fill out the paperwork, show ID, pass the NICS (FBI background check) check and then you can walk out of the store with a new long gun. If the sale is private to private (not through an FFL dealer), then no background check is required.

As far as why I've decided on firearms as my way of ctb'ing, well I'm not a fan of heights, I don't have access to inert gases (such as N₂, He, Ar,), can't go through the hoops of obtaining N or any substance, don't have the means to get SN or SA, hanging isn't always accessible and more likely to fail, so firearms is my choice. Personally as how my life is, I don't care if I'm a bloody mess as long as I'm gone peacefully, with little discomfort and pain, and successful at ctb'ing. That's all that matters for me.

 

[Thoughtforms]

The denizens of this site seem to be predominantly American.
So one question, as a European, I can be quite envious of the ease with which you an obtain firearms. Where I live, handguns are forbidden.
The success rate with discharging a firearm to the head (inserting barrel into mouth) is almost 100%. It is quick and probably painless. Why bother with all of the more exotic and uncertain means (at least the non-pharmacologic )approaches, jumping or hanging...

It is not 100% if you miss your brain https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ant-suicide-attempt-natgeo-profile/index.html

I knew of someone who was shot dead in London. The murderer got the gun in Bulgaria (you need to do a course for your permit) and bought it back on a coach.

 

[johnny]

It is not 100% if you miss your brain https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ant-suicide-attempt-natgeo-profile/index.html

I knew of someone who was shot dead in London. The murderer got the gun in Bulgaria (you need to do a course for your permit) and bought it back on a coach.

All these gun failures I see like this one are when they shoot from underneath the chin, which you should never do.

Does anyone know of any failures from inside the mouth?

 

[TAW122]

All these gun failures I see like this one are when they shoot from underneath the chin, which you should never do.

Does anyone know of any failures from inside the mouth?

Not off the top of my head. However, I could see failures from inside the mouth if:
1) The caliber they use is too weak such as .25 ACP, .22s (s for short), .17 HMR, etc.
2) They completely miss the brainstem and hit some other area of the brain, AND/OR
3) They did one of the above and are rescued in time before they bleed out.

I'm sure there are other factors, but mainly make sure you aim as close to the brainstem as possible (shotgun is just for added guaranty of success but still need to be close to ensure near 100% success rate), don't use any weak caliber or round to ctb, and make sure that you aren't saved immediately just so you have time to bleed out or die of other combined causes (shock, blood loss, cardiac arrest, etc.).

 

[Stillnotsure]

The denizens of this site seem to be predominantly American.
So one question, as a European, I can be quite envious of the ease with which you an obtain firearms. Where I live, handguns are forbidden.
The success rate with discharging a firearm to the head (inserting barrel into mouth) is almost 100%. It is quick and probably painless. Why bother with all of the more exotic and uncertain means (at least the non-pharmacologic )approaches, jumping or hanging...

The grass is always greener on the other side. I'd like to say that no method is 100%. You only die when it is your time to go. I've found a site that you can apply for assisted euthanasia with phenobarbital in Sweden I believe. Only problem is you have to fly there, prove you're terminally ill and such. But to me Europe is headed in the right direction to allow assisted suicides. Makes me jealous. We have "humane" euthanasia for animals in America but not humane euthanasia for humans. Makes me sick...

 

[TAW122]

The grass is always greener on the other side. I'd like to say that no method is 100%. You only die when it is your time to go. I've found a site that you can apply for assisted euthanasia with phenobarbital in Sweden I believe. Only problem is you have to fly there, prove you're terminally ill and such. But to me Europe is headed in the right direction to allow assisted suicides. Makes me jealous. We have "humane" euthanasia for animals in America but not humane euthanasia for humans. Makes me sick...

Very true, and I agree that Europe is headed in the right direction in terms of euthanasia law and what not. It's a lot better than even the few states with assisted suicide. The last sentence is also rage and suicide fuel for me, it's pathetic how we treat animals more humanely than we treat our fellow humans (yes animals deserve a humane end but so do we - after all, we are just complex animals after all).

Also, the last sentence is partially why I've secured my method (firearm) because that is much easier than trying to wait for the government to legalize euthanasia let alone voluntary euthanasia (I highly doubt I'll see that legalized at the federal level especially in my lifetime if even..), or trying to gain approval from Dignitas, Exit International, or hoping a doctor from said country will approve me. The ability to exit at any time and almost anywhere on a whim is really liberating and empowering for me.

 

[Purgatory]

I own many firearms. 15 to be exact. People outside the US may be envious of that. It really is an easy way out, if you use the right gun and shoot it in the correct spot.

I have 2 reasons for not using one of mine to ctb.

1st. The 2nd ammendment, the right to own guns (added info for those outside the US) is already under attack due to mass shootings by assholes that can't just deal with shit or just kill themselves. (Disclaimer: I can't deal with some shit myself, but I am not going to kill everyone else because of it.) I do not want to add my own death to the statistics anti-gun people use in their attempt to regulate guns in this country.

2. It is quick and painless if done right. Leaves a hell of a mess though. I do care about those I will leave behind. I prefer to leave the least mess possible.

If I have left anything unanswered, AMA.

 

[TiredHorse]

Well said, @Purgatory; we are on the same page. I, too, own several guns --I'm down to six-- but will not be using them to ctb, except as a last-ditch method, for the exact reasons you eloquently list.

 

[TAW122]

@Purgatory I respect your decision and your reasoning even though my reasons and choice of method goes contrary to yours. In my situation, it is due to the lack of accessibility of other means and my own shitty SI when it comes to other methods as well as reliability. Thus, I have chosen and sworn by the firearms as a means to escape my suffering. Part of thinks about adding a small note to tell the media and what not to leave out suicides in gun control stats, and explain my reasoning, but I think they will just ignore it. Tbh, I don't think firearms suicides should be included as gun control as it is just using a tool on oneself (much like drugs, jumping, N, inert gases, and many other methods).

 

[Retched]

The denizens of this site seem to be predominantly American.
So one question, as a European, I can be quite envious of the ease with which you an obtain firearms. Where I live, handguns are forbidden.
The success rate with discharging a firearm to the head (inserting barrel into mouth) is almost 100%. It is quick and probably painless. Why bother with all of the more exotic and uncertain means (at least the non-pharmacologic )approaches, jumping or hanging...

As a person who just recently got a firearm purchase permit but not actually purchased a gun yet, it does seem really easy until you start thinking about the consequences with a gun, like what to do if the method fails, if my shot isn't right, the complications with where to do it....it seems really easy but is turning out not to be so easy for me to make the decision. And if I do, how I'll best carry it out is on my mind.

 

[TAW122]

the complications with where to do it....it seems really easy but is turning out not to be so easy for me to make the decision. And if I do, how I'll best carry it out is on my mind.

Yes, these are things on my mind too. While I'm a relatively new gun owner (just got my firearm over a week ago), I still have lots of nuances and things to learn myself. These include following the laws of my state in regards to transportation, where weapons are allowed/prohibited, and also finding a suitable place to do it. Either way, regardless of where I do it, there will be a big mess so the best thing I can do is to minimize the mess and amount of people who come in contact with my corpse.

 

[Rsuicidal]

Even if I could somehow convince a hunter or farmer to sell to me as far as my fantasy goes I couldnt imagine if my whatever went through walls and harmed someone. Checking out videos most penetrate several layers of drywall and I cant see even wood stopping most.
So even if I managed this, unlikely with my hospital records, I wouldbt know an angle that is both effective and harmless to neighbors personally.

 

[Stillnotsure]

Even if I could somehow convince a hunter or farmer to sell to me as far as my fantasy goes I couldnt imagine if my whatever went through walls and harmed someone. Checking out videos most penetrate several layers of drywall and I cant see even wood stopping most.
So even if I managed this, unlikely with my hospital records, I wouldbt know an angle that is both effective and harmless to neighbors personally.

Those statistics of bullets penetrating walls are mostly based on data where the shots missed the target, went through the body not the skull, and were .40 caliber or higher and were metal jacketed, not hollow point. If you follow the advice to the letter the gun megathread lays out the risk of stray bullets having the velocity to be a threat to other people is negligible. Let me put it this way. If I put my head right next to yours while you were shooting yourself I wouldn't trust the bullet to be fatal to me. Bone as thick as the skull takes a lot of energy out of the fragments of bullet.