Method Feasible or not? SN method using a slower process

[Depressed Cat]

I was just wondering about this after reading an article on SN.

Both, the Peaceful Pill Handbook and Stan's guide recommend taking a fatal quantity of SN with adequate prior preparation (fasting, anti-emetic, beta-blocker etc.), so that the SN overwhelms the body quickly, one goes unconscious as fast as possible and death results in less than an hour's time.

There are some drawbacks with this method (primarily vomiting and very rapid heart beat), but these can be managed with adequate preparation.

What if one were to use SN in a slower process of CTB? That is, ingesting a lethal quantity of SN along with food and/or drink (non-alcoholic). This untested method also includes similar prior preparation.

Let's consider this. First, fast adequately, say for 8 hours without food and very little water. Then, about 1 hour prior to SN, take an adequate amount of a pain-killer. Having done that, take a suitably large overdose of a relatively fast-acting benzodiazepine (very important). After this, just before one begins to feel sleepy, take an adequate amount of the anti-emetic. Then take the beta-blocker and antacid (in no particular order). Then, as the benzo overdose kicks in and makes one feel very sleepy, hold on and eat the food that contains an extremely lethal dose of SN (more than the one recommended by PPH or Stan's guide), or gulp down the drink (non-alcoholic) that contains the same extremely lethal dose of SN, or a combination of the two. For obvious reasons, the quantity of food and/or drink should not be too much. Then go and lie down and hope for the best, that one is able to catch the bus in one's sleep (assuming the large benzo overdose is able to knock one out).

I arrived at the conclusion that such a method could theoretically work quite well after reading this very old medical literature on SN poisoning that killed three men way back in 1938. The investigators were able to identify SN as the cause of their deaths, but were unable to conclude whether the SN mixed in with the beef stew had been accidental, intentional or homicidal.

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What could possibly go wrong with this method? All things that could go wrong with the regular method (recommended by PPH or Stan's guide) apply to this as well, plus the fact that SN will take a much longer time to act and hence increase the time in which one could be found and supposedly "saved".

Is it possible that the body will not reject the SN as violently as with the regular method since it is taken along with food and/or drink (non-alcoholic)? The idea of SN working its lethal way slowly and silently as one is deep asleep under the influence of a heavy dose of benzos would be appealing to those who have plenty of time without the possibility of being interrupted.

Your thoughts and opinions?

 

[Chiisai]

I was just wondering about this after reading an article on SN.

Both, the Peaceful Pill Handbook and Stan's guide recommend taking a fatal quantity of SN with adequate prior preparation (fasting, anti-emetic, beta-blocker etc.), so that the SN overwhelms the body quickly, one goes unconscious as fast as possible and death results in less than an hour's time.

There are some drawbacks with this method (primarily vomiting and very rapid heart beat), but these can be managed with adequate preparation.

What if one were to use SN in a slower process of CTB? That is, ingesting a lethal quantity of SN along with food and/or drink (non-alcoholic). This untested method also includes similar prior preparation.

Let's consider this. First, fast adequately, say for 8 hours without food and very little water. Then, about 1 hour prior to SN, take an adequate amount of a pain-killer. Having done that, take a suitably large overdose of a relatively fast-acting benzodiazepine (very important). After this, just before one begins to feel sleepy, take an adequate amount of the anti-emetic. Then take the beta-blocker and antacid (in no particular order). Then, as the benzo overdose kicks in and makes one feel very sleepy, hold on and eat the food that contains an extremely lethal dose of SN (more than the one recommended by PPH or Stan's guide), or gulp down the drink (non-alcoholic) that contains the same extremely lethal dose of SN, or a combination of the two. For obvious reasons, the quantity of food and/or drink should not be too much. Then go and lie down and hope for the best, that one is able to catch the bus in one's sleep (assuming the large benzo overdose is able to knock one out).

I arrived at the conclusion that such a method could theoretically work quite well after reading this very old medical literature on SN poisoning that killed three men way back in 1938. The investigators were able to identify SN as the cause of their deaths, but were unable to conclude whether the SN mixed in with the beef stew had been accidental, intentional or homicidal.

Screenshot of the page

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Article enlarged

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What could possibly go wrong with this method? All things that could go wrong with the regular method (recommended by PPH or Stan's guide) apply to this as well, plus the fact that SN will take a much longer time to act and hence increase the time in which one could be found and supposedly "saved".

Is it possible that the body will not reject the SN as violently as with the regular method since it is taken along with food and/or drink (non-alcoholic)? The idea of SN working its lethal way slowly and silently as one is deep asleep under the influence of a heavy dose of benzos would be appealing to those who have plenty of time without the possibility of being interrupted.

Your thoughts and opinions?

I find this interesting and nice that you provided a source to back your thoughts. Thank you. I have thought and experimented a somehow similar approach. Instead of mixing with food or with plain water, I thought of mixing it with young coconut water(sweet) to make it palatable.

Edit: Upon further reading, All three died from sub doses of nitrite from consuming the stew. A lethal dose for a 60kg person is around 18grams based on the LD50. It must be that these 3 men either weigh very light or that the nitrite was absorbed quickly by the body that only trace amounts were left in the stomach samples. This also makes it interesting. Since there was no mention of these men vomiting, that must mean they kept eating until they absorbed enough dose to be lethal. If so, how long was it till they felt the effects? One of SN's effect is headache. If it was a long time for them before they dropped, it must be a whole lot of headache for them.

 

[Wrennie]

I recall reading that having food in your stomach converts the 'nitrite' to 'nitrate', thus rendering it ineffective?

 

[Chiisai]

I recall reading that having food in your stomach converts the 'nitrite' to 'nitrate', thus rendering it ineffective?

What turns them to nitrate?

 

[Wrennie]

What turns them to nitrate?

The gastric juices that are released when you're digesting food, I believe. I could be wrong though… I'd have to find the post in question.

 

[Chiisai]

The gastric juices that are released when you're digesting food, I believe. I could be wrong though… I'd have to find the post in question.

Interesting. Both water and food stay in the stomach for a while. Comparing it to these 3 men, they consumed stew and stew is not entirely a solid food as it contains broth. It must be that the broth was absorbed quickly by the body before the solid parts of the stew turned to nitrate.

 

[Depressed Cat]

Interesting. Both water and food stay in the stomach for a while. Comparing it to these 3 men, they consumed stew and stew is not entirely a solid food as it contains broth. It must be that the broth was absorbed quickly by the body before the solid parts of the stew turned to nitrate.

This case of the three men in 1938 isn't the only example of sodium nitrite poisoning by food. Let's take a look at three more cases.

Second case (source)

We present a case of poisoning with sodium nitrite in three family members after eating homemade sausages given to them by their neighbor who was a butcher.

According to the findings of the veterinary inspectorate in charge of food control in this case, the concentration of sodium nitrite in the homemade sausages was about 3.5 g per 1 kg of meat, almost 30 times higher than allowed according to legislation.

In this case report, a 70-year-old man died about 7 h after consuming the meal, while two women, 53 and 67 years of age, respectively, were admitted to a toxicology clinic the following day due to food poisoning, with the maximum concentration of MHb in blood of 33.7 and 20.4%, respectively. They were discharged 3 days later.

The autopsy of the deceased man showed sodium nitrite poisoning with a relatively low concentration of MHb in his blood – 9.87%. Death was attributed to the exacerbation of hypertensive and ischemic heart disease, resulting from accidental sodium nitrite poisoning.

Third case (source)

The tale unfolds like this: There is a party of friends staying at a villa in St. Mary, Jamaica. They are in Jamaica to celebrate the marriage of one of them, a Jamaican woman, to a man she met while teaching in Japan.

The group includes some Americans, and also an Argentinean man. Because they are staying in a house, they are cooking for themselves at least part of the time. To cook, they need to shop.

The Argentine does at least some of the shopping, though he has a little language trouble. A few days before Christmas, he makes a big meal of fresh fish and potato salad for the group. He uses the groceries he has bought, including salt. A few hours later they become very sick and are taken to a local hospital.

Their symptoms are so remarkable that local doctors think at first that the fish was responsible: maybe the tourist bought barracuda, or puffer fish, not knowing how toxic they might be. But they cannot ask him. Within a few hours of being admitted to the hospital, the Argentine dies.

The Jamaican authorities go back to the villa, and there they find their answer: in the kitchen, there is a container of sodium nitrite, labeled "saltpetre." The Jamaica Gleaner reports:

It is believed that (the Argentinean), whose command of the English language was limited, purchased the product, mistaking it for table salt. He reportedly used it excessively in the meal that he prepared, and this was evidenced by the half-empty bottle of saltpetre that was found at the villa he occupied in St Mary...

Fourth case (source)

At about eight o'clock on Monday morning, September 25, 1944, a ragged, aimless old man of eighty-two collapsed on the sidewalk of Dey Street, near the Hudson Terminal. Innumerable people must have noticed him, but he lay there alone for several minutes, dazed, doubled up with abdominal cramps, and in an agony of retching. Then a policeman came along. Until the policeman bent over the old man, he may have supposed that he had just a sick drunk on his hands; wanderers dropped by drink are common in that part of town in the early morning.

It was not an opinion that he could have held for long. The old man's nose, lips, ears, and fingers were sky-blue. That man is the first of 11 to be found that day in Manhattan; all of them, as Roueche says, were "rigid, cyanotic and in a state of shock."

They note something else, too: All of the men ate breakfast that day at one place, the Eclipse Cafeteria in Chatham Square only a few blocks from the hospital. But they had not all eaten there at the same time. So if something at the cafeteria had affected them, it must have been something that went on for hours — yet the cafeteria was busy all morning, and these men are the only victims.

They notice one other thing: All of the men ate oatmeal.

That is enough of a clue to send them to the Eclipse's kitchen, where they discover that the cook has accidentally filled the big container of salt above the stove not with common sodium chloride (NaCl), but with sodium nitrite (NaNO2), which he was using to make sausage. The cook demonstrates for them that he puts a handful of salt in the big pot of oatmeal he makes everyday. So everyone who ate oatmeal in the cafeteria — the 11 blue men, and 114 others — got a morning dose of the toxic salt.

But not a toxic dose, since only the 11 have fallen ill. Piecing together the story, Pellitteri and Greenberg remember the men are all down-on-their-luck alcoholics; that is why they are sleeping in flophouses and eating in a place like the Eclipse, which charges 15 cents for a meal. Alcoholics are often salt-deprived; maybe the men put extra salt on their oatmeal. So they check the saltshakers on the cafeteria's tables. Sixteen contain regular salt. One contains almost pure sodium nitrite.

The busboy has made the same mistake the cook did, and filled the saltshaker from the wrong salt can. Salting their breakfast from that single saltshaker is how the men received their almost-lethal dose.

 

[Dot]

Teacher in China sentenced to death for poisoning children's porridge

Wang Yun put sodium nitrite in children’s breakfast in act of revenge against a colleague

www.theguardian.com

 

[Chiisai]

This case of the three men in 1938 isn't the only example of sodium nitrite poisoning by food. Let's take a look at three more cases.

Second case (source)


Third case (source)


Fourth case (source)

It seems that except for the 2nd case, the rest of the cases were in a form of food that is semi-solid. (assuming that fish dish is in a soup or broth form to require that much salt) Interesting. New ways to try.

 

[myopybyproxy]

putting it in food would likely make the taste more palatable as well

 

[rationaltake]

Interesting. Very sad for the innocent people concerned.

 

[Ta555]

This is a great idea. I was thinking of taking 5g in Coke before hanging. There's a thread of a guy who took 2g in Coke and went to hospital. Almost died coz they couldn't figure out what was wrong with him for ages.

 

[Julgran]

This is interesting. I'm thinking that alcohol might help, as well. I know that being drunk may make a person who takes SN, vomit, but what if we fast and then just mix the SN with 5 cl of red wine, for example, instead of water? I'm no expert when it comes to digestion, but from what I know, alcohol can, at least, have a boosting effect on normal medicines, and make them lethal, in some cases - so wouldn't mixing SN with a tiny bit of alcohol, instead of water, be effective?

 

[clown_17]

I think putting your sn in food would definitely help because from experience the taste is awful. However I would take a lethal dose all at once because if you do end up backing out because of SI you can avoid the hassle of a non lethal sn poisoning.

 

[UpandDownPrincess]

This is interesting. I'm thinking that alcohol might help, as well. I know that being drunk may make a person who takes SN, vomit, but what if we fast and then just mix the SN with 5 cl of red wine, for example, instead of water? I'm no expert when it comes to digestion, but from what I know, alcohol can, at least, have a boosting effect on normal medicines, and make them lethal, in some cases - so wouldn't mixing SN with a tiny bit of alcohol, instead of water, be effective?

I don't think so.

Alcohol makes other drugs stronger because it does the same thing, usually depresses respiration.

SN does not work the same way as alcohol, so the effects do not combine in that way.

A simple way to remember is to keep in mind that SN is poison. The body is programmed to reject poisons however it can - in the case of an orally ingested poison, by vomiting it back up. Anything that also encourages vomiting is a bad combination.

 

[myopybyproxy]

I don't think so.

Alcohol makes other drugs stronger because it does the same thing, usually depresses respiration.

SN does not work the same way as alcohol, so the effects do not combine in that way.

A simple way to remember is to keep in mind that SN is poison. The body is programmed to reject poisons however it can - in the case of an orally ingested poison, by vomiting it back up. Anything that also encourages vomiting is a bad combination.

Inject the SN and put the alcohol up your poop chute?

This is a great idea. I was thinking of taking 5g in Coke before hanging. There's a thread of a guy who took 2g in Coke and went to hospital. Almost died coz they couldn't figure out what was wrong with him for ages.

The fizzy beverage or cocaine salt solution?

 

[Of The Universe]

Fuck it! Ima get that poly therm shortwave apparatus and dump it in the bathtub while I am bathing. That should ctb me realgood!

 

[Chiisai]

I think putting your sn in food would definitely help because from experience the taste is awful. However I would take a lethal dose all at once because if you do end up backing out because of SI you can avoid the hassle of a non lethal sn poisoning.

Hmmm I read in this forum about a case in 1900s I believe of workers mistaking SN as salt and cooked it with their stew. All of them died while eating.

 

[Ta555]

Inject the SN and put the alcohol up your poop chute?

The fizzy beverage or cocaine salt solution?

Haha! The fizzy drink... But tbh I've really gone off the SN idea. It will either be nitrogen, or if I ever get it, N for me.