Venting Existence is a prison that was imposed by those selfish enough to procreate

[FuneralCry]

Existence truly is a prison that was so tragically imposed by those selfish enough to procreate and no matter what it'll always be a tragedy to be enslaved in this meaningless and hellish existence, it's so incredibly tragic how those people refuse to leave the non-existent in peace and instead force them into a reality filled with endless harm and potential for the most immense torment.

To me it'll always be deeply criminal and abhorrent how humans so harmfully burden others with something so futile and torturous as human existence especially as true perfection could only lie in never existing at all. It truly is horrific how those people create so much meaningless suffering even know nobody can be harmed by never existing with their being no disadvantages to being unaware for all eternity yet there is no limit as to how much one can suffer as long as they exist.

No matter what existence itself will always be the true problem as it's the source of all suffering, it's already so hellish how life even exists at all even know there was never a need for such but to impose this onto someone else is deeply unacceptable to me. I find it devastating how life continues to be forced here day after day, existence truly is just an endless cycle of suffering that so cruelly repeats once new life is so tragically burdened with the ability to exist.

And because of the immensley harmful decision to impose existence I now have to suffer, it'll always be an abomination to be enslaved in this hellish existence, to be conscious and aware just destined to suffer way more and decay truly is such a hopeless fate.

It truly is so evil how despite the fact that we were so cruelly forced here access to painless death isn't a human right with humans making existence into a prison where one cannot peacefully escape. It just shows how humans truly are the worst, most repulsive species with how they refuse to accept suicide as a valid option and wish to enslave others in this existence they never consented to until their futile, temporary existences disappear into nothingness anyway.

We truly are being punished all because of the crime to procreate, existence is a prison and the tragedy lies in how one cannot easily just be free, only non-existence is desirable to me as it's the eternal absence of all suffering and harm.

 

[Tesha]

 

[JustA_LittlePerson]

View attachment 142899

Thank you.

 

[dolemitedrums]

I don't think having children is an act of selfishness in general. It certainly wasn't on the part of my mother. Sometimes the experiment of life just doesn't work out and doesn't warrant continuation. The responsibility for that will lie with different parties in different cases, and sometimes with ourselves, but just because a life doesn't work out...that doesn't mean the person who brought that life into the world necessarily had any intentions other than kindness and love. There are a lot of dice rolls that happen over the course of our lives and the people who gave us life in the first place aren't responsible if we roll snake eyes with cancer or abuse from other sources or a car wreck or so on.

 

[redeeming_butterfly]

Every birth is driven by selfishness. Because every birth involves the risk of terrible suffering. And even if the risk is small, it still exists. From ovulation onwards, an incomprehensible mass of random events takes place that we cannot even begin to control.
If we were selfless, we would never take even the slightest risk of creating suffering. Because what does not live, what is not born, cannot suffer and cannot miss a potentially happy life. The probability of suffering is 0%. Whereas the probability of every single birth is guaranteed to be above 0%.
I'm not saying this because I hate my parents, I have nothing against my parents at all. I'm just saying it because it's the truth.

 

[SilentSadness]

I do agree, there would be no problems if no one had children.

 

[jbear824]

I was born into this shit world, into this failed species because my parents couldn't afford heat, so they fucked to keep warm.

I hate them both and I hope there is a hell so they both rot in it.

 

[DeIetedUser4739]

 

[dolemitedrums]

Every birth is driven by selfishness. Because every birth involves the risk of terrible suffering. And even if the risk is small, it still exists. From ovulation onwards, an incomprehensible mass of random events takes place that we cannot even begin to control.
If we were selfless, we would never take even the slightest risk of creating suffering. Because what does not live, what is not born, cannot suffer and cannot miss a potentially happy life. The probability of suffering is 0%. Whereas the probability of every single birth is guaranteed to be above 0%.
I'm not saying this because I hate my parents, I have nothing against my parents at all. I'm just saying it because it's the truth.

I don't think my mother was selfish in having me at all. Most of the time being brought into the world and experiencing life is a gift from your parents and most of the people in the world view it this way and aren't wrong to do so. For some of us, enough stuff happens or is done or goes wrong with the body and so on that it eventually becomes better to forego the rest of the gift than continue on with it.

But I think anyone who brings a child into the world and treats that child well and raises them to be a good person is doing a positive thing. There are just a lot of places where things can go wrong or damage can be incurred along the way.

Everybody is free to do things their own way and feel however they want to feel...but I don't find it productive to be nor do I find myself driven to be angry at life for existing or angry at anyone for bringing me into existence. I am grateful for that and there were some very good times along the way and I am grateful for those as well. But the cumulative effect of the various negatives and the prospects they represent going forward permanently just make continuing on to be a negative expected value experience.

 

[redeeming_butterfly]

I don't think my mother was selfish in having me at all. Most of the time being brought into the world and experiencing life is a gift from your parents and most of the people in the world view it this way and aren't wrong to do so. For some of us, enough stuff happens or is done or goes wrong with the body and so on that it eventually becomes better to forego the rest of the gift than continue on with it.

But I think anyone who brings a child into the world and treats that child well and raises them to be a good person is doing a positive thing. There are just a lot of places where things can go wrong or damage can be incurred along the way.

I don't judge people who want to become parents. Most parents put in a lot of effort and all that effort is actually the opposite of selfishness. Part of being a parent is sacrificing your own ego.
I have respect for all parents.

The point is that every human being who decides to create life takes the risk that this life will suffer infinite suffering.
For me, the potential for suffering is much too great to take that risk.
No human on earth wants to create or feel suffering, unless they are a sadist or masochist.
So the crucial question is: Why do I take the risk of creating suffering?
Because humans don't give a damn about the risk. Because they hope it will all work out.
Because THEY want a child. Or THEY even needed a child. Or the child was an accident caused by other selfish actions.

However, if you see it differently, I respect that, I have no choice anyways. And I also respect everyone else who sees it differently.
All the best for you.

...and maybe it was wrong in my posting above to end it with: "[...]I'm just saying it because it's the truth." ...
It is MY truth. I'm not on a mission to convert people or anything like that. That's not even possible. Humans will never let themselves die out. I just hope that at least voluntary death will be accepted at some point and become part of society. Death as a completely normal, rational thing. Possibly in a time when slavery is no longer necessary.

 

[donwhitman]

I pray for WW3 nuclear Armageddon to rid us of this disgusting human race !

 

[dolemitedrums]

I don't judge people who want to become parents. Most parents put in a lot of effort and all that effort is actually the opposite of selfishness. Part of being a parent is sacrificing your own ego.
I have respect for all parents.

The point is that every human being who decides to create life takes the risk that this life will suffer infinite suffering.
For me, the potential for suffering is much too great to take that risk.
No human on earth wants to create or feel suffering, unless they are a sadist or masochist.
So the crucial question is: Why do I take the risk of creating suffering?
Because humans don't give a damn about the risk. Because they hope it will all work out.
Because THEY want a child. Or THEY even needed a child. Or the child was an accident caused by other selfish actions.

You are right that people are taking a gamble when they have a child...the potential that the resulting life will be a bad experience. But I think the expected result when you average it out is a positive one. Most people are happy to be alive pretty much the whole way through and don't end up on a forum looking for the best way to just get the hell out of this existence. We aren't the majority or the norm. And a lot of those who want to end it only end up there relatively late in life as a result of illness and injury and had a heck of a time up until then. Sigh, it is what it is. We're both here right now and are cases where in the final analysis it didn't work out for one reason or another or many. But I was quite glad for the better times.

 

[redeeming_butterfly]

You are right that people are taking a gamble when they have a child...the potential that the resulting life will be a bad experience. But I think the expected result when you average it out is a positive one. Most people are happy to be alive pretty much the whole way through and don't end up on a forum looking for the best way to just get the hell out of this existence. We aren't the majority or the norm. And a lot of those who want to end it only end up there relatively late in life as a result of illness and injury and had a heck of a time up until then. Sigh, it is what it is. We're both here right now and are cases where in the final analysis it didn't work out for one reason or another or many. But I was quite glad for the better times.

It's not about majority or minority.
I don't take the slightest risk of creating suffering. I rule it out completely. I don't gamble, because you don't gamble with the inconceivably cruel potential for suffering. You dont gable with pain. MY deepest conviction.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

It's not about majority or minority.
I don't take the slightest risk of creating suffering. I rule it out completely. I don't gamble, because you don't gamble with the inconceivably cruel potential for suffering. You dont gable with pain. MY deepest conviction.

I like this. I wish more people thought like you

 

[dolemitedrums]

It's not about majority or minority.
I don't take the slightest risk of creating suffering. I rule it out completely. I don't gamble, because you don't gamble with the inconceivably cruel potential for suffering. You dont gable with pain. MY deepest conviction.

Certainly your choice to make and there is a logic to it. But if everybody on earth suddenly switched to that approach, there would be no pain yes, but there would also thereafter be no happiness. And I think for the most part for the rest of the world, the net happiness outweighs the pain, so that risk or gamble in the aggregate isn't without some justifications.

 

[redeeming_butterfly]

Certainly your choice to make and there is a logic to it. But if everybody on earth suddenly switched to that approach, there would be no pain yes, but there would also thereafter be no happiness. And I think for the most part for the rest of the world, the net happiness outweighs the pain, so that risk or gamble in the aggregate isn't without some justifications.

It wouldn't harm anyone if there was no happiness. That is impossible. Nobody would miss it either. No matter what happens after our organic existence on earth. We wouldn't know what happened before.
Our memories are part of our brain.
You can't imagine it as if we were all sitting in a chair somewhere in the dark and thinking: "Oh man, this is boring now. We're not suffering, but we're not feeling any joy either."

 

[donwhitman]

suffer then eventually die...how is that positive?

You are right that people are taking a gamble when they have a child...the potential that the resulting life will be a bad experience. But I think the expected result when you average it out is a positive one. Most people are happy to be alive pretty much the whole way through and don't end up on a forum looking for the best way to just get the hell out of this existence. We aren't the majority or the norm. And a lot of those who want to end it only end up there relatively late in life as a result of illness and injury and had a heck of a time up until then. Sigh, it is what it is. We're both here right now and are cases where in the final analysis it didn't work out for one reason or another or many. But I was quite glad for the better times

 

[Infinite Solipsist]

Certainly your choice to make and there is a logic to it. But if everybody on earth suddenly switched to that approach, there would be no pain yes, but there would also thereafter be no happiness. And I think for the most part for the rest of the world, the net happiness outweighs the pain, so that risk or gamble in the aggregate isn't without some justifications.

I think a lot of members on SaSu have a tendency to view the world through the lens of developed countries. Factor in the third world and I imagine the aggregate is highly skewed towards suffering instead of happiness. I have no idea where you come from so it is possible you understand this more clearly than I do and that I'm totally wrong about extreme poverty. According to the world bank, 46% of the world population lives on less than $5.50 a day. I can't imagine anyone being satisfied in life while living on that kind of money even if you live in a place with an extremely low cost of living.

 

[ineedtoendthis]

I do agree, there would be no problems if no one had children.

It would be problem for government and capitalists.

 

[lw1235]

I agree

 

[Ashu]

It doesn't seem this simple to people who are able to experience love and desire.

 

[astr4]

i miss funeralcry. i think you only get to this intensity of antinatalism when your life has been filled with suffering, and i feel a deep sympathy for that.

to put it as a metaphor, giving birth is playing russian roulette with an innocent child's life. maybe most times you can ensure the child's happiness, but you can in no way guarantee it as a fact.

my parents surely thought they were capable of raising a happy child, but totally neglected the emotional maturity piece and made my childhood miserable! that's by far the largest driver in my desire to ctb. most people are incapable of recognizing their own blind spots, so it confuses me that people can be so confident in their ability to be good parents.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

I think a lot of members on SaSu have a tendency to view the world through the lens of developed countries. Factor in the third world and I imagine the aggregate is highly skewed towards suffering instead of happiness. I have no idea where you come from so it is possible you understand this more clearly than I do and that I'm totally wrong about extreme poverty. According to the world bank, 46% of the world population lives on less than $5.50 a day. I can't imagine anyone being satisfied in life while living on that kind of money even if you live in a place with an extremely low cost of living.

There is a huge difference between being unhappy in life and finding living worthwhile.

Plus you have to factor in human connection and community, spirituality, and the uniformity of the situations of the people who surround you.