“Euthanasia for autism is immoral!” Or maybe not, given the implications it can have on your life.

[Realityisawful]

Some damning statistics:

Being single with autism: It’s complicated

People with autism spectrum disorders covet intimacy as much as anyone but are disproportionately single. Here’s a look at the obstacles they face when it comes to flirting, romance and love

www.theglobeandmail.com

According to a groundbreaking report published this year by Toronto's Redpath Centre, people with ASDs are disproportionately single compared with the rest of the population. Only 32.1 per cent of those surveyed indicated they ever had a partner, while 9 per cent stated they were currently married. In the general population, meanwhile, about half of all adults are married.

Opinion | Adult, Autistic and Ignored (Published 2015)

There is virtually no substantive national discussion on the fate of older autistic people like my brother.

www.nytimes.com

An estimated 90 percent of adults with autism are unemployed or underemployed.

Most college grads with autism can't find jobs. This group is fixing that.

Every day is World Autism Awareness Day at Integrate Autism Employment Advisors, which connects employers with young professionals affected by autism.

moneyish.com

There will be 500,000 adults on the autism spectrum aging into adulthood over the next 10 years. Yet a whopping 85% of college grads affected by autism are unemployed, compared to the national unemployment rate of 4.5%.

Why Is the Autistic Unemployment Rate So High?

The Autistic unemployment rate is higher than the unemployment rate for all disabled Americans in general.

www.thinkingautismguide.com

In the United States, thirty-five percent of Autistic eighteen-year-olds go to college. Of those American Autistics with university diplomas, only 15 percent are employed. This 85 percent unemployment rate (among college-educated Autistic adults) is massive—the general population's unemployment rate (at all education levels) is only 4.5 percent.



What many don't realize is that the Autistic unemployment rate is higher than the unemployment rate for all disabled Americans in general (disabled people comprise about 20% of the population and have an unemployment rate of 10.5%) and higher than the unemployment rate for non-Autistic Americans with developmental disabilities (people with intellectual disabilities have an unemployment rate around 21%.)

Adults with Asperger Syndrome at higher risk of contemplating suicide - CURB

Dr Sarah Cassidy, a post-doctoral researcher in the Research Centre for Psychology, Behaviour and Achievement at Coventry University, has published the first large scale clinic study to explore suicide in adults with Asperger Syndrome, in the Lancet Psychiatry . Sarah Cassidy led the research...

blogs.coventry.ac.uk

The study published in the Lancet Psychiatry revealed a significantly higher rate of suicidal ideation among adults diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome (66%), compared with the rate found in the general population (17%), and patients with psychosis (59%). A third (35%) of adults diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome had also planned or attempted suicide during their lifetime. Suicidal thoughts and behaviours were significantly more common in adults with Asperger Syndrome and a history of depression. A second risk factor for suicide plans or attempts was a higher level of autistic traits.

Large Swedish study ties autism to early death | Autism Aspergers Advocacy Australia

a4.org.au

By contrast, the most likely cause of death among people with mild autism is suicide. The risk of suicide in these individuals is about 10 times higher than in the general population.

If humanity developed through cooperation with others, and if autism fundamentally causes issues cooperating with others (unlike being gay, or transgender, or etc.- things that don't directly interfere with your ability to cooperate with another human being) - you're strictly worse. You're going to be ostracized unfairly, but you can't expect respect from others if you haven't earned it. This causes suffering for an autistic person. The world is becoming more social: once automation kicks in and jobs continue to decrease, the ability for an autistic person to find a niche will decrease as well.

Posts like this do more harm than good:

 

[Ghost2211]

Should be up to each person. 2 of my kids are high functioning autistic. Even at 5 and 2 life is different for them than a "normal" child. I can imagine how hard life can be if one is deep in the spectrum. I don't think autistic People Should die, but I do feel it should count as a reason for making the choice to die.

 

[Realityisawful]

Should be up to each person. 2 of my kids are high functioning autistic. Even at 5 and 2 life is different for them than a "normal" child. I can imagine how hard life can be if one is deep in the spectrum. I don't think autistic People Should die, but I do feel it should count as a reason for making the choice to die.

For the love of god, don't let your kids spend most of their time in front of a screen, like my parents did with me. Give them as rich and cultured of an environment as possible, one that lets them become interesting, disciplined, well rounded people. Make sure that they have a good and stable education, and a safe track towards college/university. That's essentially the only way an autistic person can compensate, unless they're okay with mediocrity. You have no idea how much of a living hell it can become. Take it from me.

 

[Ghost2211]

For the love of god, don't let your kids spend most of their time in front of a screen, like my parents did with me. Give them as rich and cultured of an environment as possible, one that lets them become interesting, disciplined, well rounded people. Make sure that they have a good and stable education, and a safe track towards college/university. That's essentially the only way an autistic person can compensate, unless they're okay with mediocrity. You have no idea how much of a living hell it can become. Take it from me.

we give them the best we can for sure. i see how hard the world is for my 5 year old. She likes being social but she is awkward af with it. She can get away with it since she's little still, but it's gong to be a hard world if she can't learn social cues.

 

[Dystopic_Momento]

Imagine if someone had told Temple Grandin she should have been euthanized because she'd never amount to anything and would die lonely.

Some colleges (in the US) actually aid those with autism instead of lying about it. They're hard to find, but they do exist. Some aspects you can never have help with, such as communication difficulties with questions that could be taken two ways, and "explain your communication problem" kind of idiocy, but the rest can be aided. That's why so many don't make it through college. That and that most schools guard the money, or flat out don't want to fill out the massive paperwork needed for an IEP so they spend months fighting parents who are already overburdened and there are often no advocates. Starts you off with a disadvantage.

Vocational Rehab (also America) is also often not even valid for everyone who's disabled. Their job is to get you pushing a broom or cleaning a toilet as quickly as possible. They'll fudge tests to see what a person's capable of and excuse it with that the people who aren't terrible at giving adequate tests cost too much. On top of that, the Disability Network in some states have the same people on the board as Voc Rehab and the Dept of Education. Since no one's watching them, they don't actually help you.

Add to that that almost everywhere has lists of places that are supposed to help you, and often none of them do. They're just getting grants to refer you to other referral places, and their excuse is that they can't replicate what someone else is doing because they're run on government grants- but the funny part is, often none of the places are actually doing as advertised. By the time you've discovered that, you've wasted a good half a year and the stress killed your productivity.

And yeah, sometimes one of the places actually could have helped, but chose not to because they perceived you were rude because you're autistic. They do the same thing to people with PTSD or agoraphobia and TBI and other things that affect our ability to communicate.

Some autistics don't care about being around other people and find it tedious. Some think it's the world that's screwed up and not them, and they're not wrong.

I imagine a lot of the problems like in the US are in other countries. At least no one here's openly advocating Eugenics/Euthenasia. It's alarming Belgium is.

I haven't been diagnosed as autistic, but I've been the only advocate (and a poor one, but I really tried) for a few others who were. They were high functioning enough to make it through high school, and one's in college now - and the college he was at before this one did everything possible to stop him from succeeding. To the point that when one anti-disability professor targeted him and he turned it in, the person whose job it was to aid the disabled said she hated people who did that -she was buddies with the professior- and changed his major without his knowledge so she could push him out sooner. He didn't know so he kept going to her to figure out why he was being denied financial aid for his major and she kept what she did to herself until it was too late and it'd make it hard for him to get into another college.

Also, there's no help with understanding certain parts of financial aid. The colleges want to pretend disabilities don't affect that, so they say it's not their problem if you can't figure it out.

That affects jobs. And money affects relationships. Didn't realize how much until I became poor myself, but if you can't afford extra snacks for guests, can't afford air conditioning, can't afford transportation... people don't want to see you.

Due to that autistics are more likely to pay attention to things no one else is, or specializing to an absurd degree on a subject (and never stop learning about it) they have a lot to bring to the table of society would adjust and actually be about cooperation instead of pretending to be about cooperation and helping others. That's a fault in society, not the person. It just sucks society is currently screwing up.

 

[Fragile]

what really baffles me about this is how little this topic is actually discussed, specially with the shocking statistics. just knowing that 90% of a population is unable to get a job would be enough to take some real measures to help with the problem, and autism is actually extremely common when compared to other disabilities, if i remember correctly 1 out of every 40 kids gets an autism diagnosis anyone with some knowledge about these kind of statistics will instantly know just how common this is, and many go undiagnosed for their entire lives because getting a diagnosis as an adult is extremely hard.

i really don't know what society expects from people who suffer from this condition, you only get to live a life knowing that you can't be like others, you will live a much shorter life than most and all those days will probably be terrible because autism is heavily linked with conditions such as anxiety, depression and many personality disorders. some people call kids with autism "alien babies" and that's probably how it is for most, there is such a disconnect between people with normal brains and those with autism, not only in their interactions, but also in the way that they perceive the world in a fundamental level. it's tragic to think that a lot of these children will grow into adults with multiple psychological illnesses that can't even seek treatment and will end up killing themselves, if any of the complications from chronic illnesses associated with autism doesn't get them first. did you know that up to a third of people with autism suffer from epilepsy? or that many end up dealing with diabetes? there's also a big group who are born with chronic gastric issues, asthma and in some cases even immune system conditions, just to name a few.

the only silver lining here is that if you are in the upper end of the spectrum, then at least you are functional enough to kill yourself, some people in the lower end have it rough, to the point that they are non-verbal or can't even hear common sounds like cars or people talking without experiencing physical pain and anger bursts. working as a caregiver for some was just painful and sad, those children will need someone who takes care of them even into adulthood. at least i can work with mine and would be "functional" if it wasn't for the other health issues.

seriously, this needs way more attention.

 

[TAW122]

Good post raising awareness @Realityisawful. I think most of those articles highlight the difficulties that autistic people face (myself included as I have an official diagnosis of Aspergers since teenage years and still do as of several years ago). While there are some autistic people who manage to flourish and wish to live a fulfilling life, that's awesome and I'm happy for them. However, with my life, I've made peace with the fact that I won't ever enjoy life enough to make it worth living decades and decades more of suffering just for maybe some temporary pleasures here and there, plus I wished I never had my condition (Aspergers) as it has hindered me more than it has helped me. It made my life more difficult than it should, my social life is basically living on NIGHTMARE MODE, and that alone is a huge reason for my wanting to check out. I'm sick and tired of the ignorance and having to always "explain" to people (over and over) while they feign understanding and compassion every time, then shower me with platitudes and patronizing speech, talks; it just makes me want to die even more. All in all, in short, life on the spectrum is torturous for a lot of people, despite what articles, media, and ignorant masses say.

In the last article about anti-assisted suicide, I despise articles like that as it stifles progress being made towards death with dignity for those who wish to end their suffering and find peace (myself included). While I won't likely be a recipient of such services, it sucks that articles like that inhibit progress and hurts the people who wish to find a "peaceful and dignified" exit having to resort to more gruesome methods or means to achieve peace.

I don't think autistic People Should die, but I do feel it should count as a reason for making the choice to die.

Agreed, and since each autistic individual is unique in their situation (along with circumstances and lives), it should be solely up to the individual to make the value determination on whether he/she wishes to continue living or be granted a peaceful, dignified death.

 

[Awkward._.Autistic]

For the love of god, don't let your kids spend most of their time in front of a screen, like my parents did with me. Give them as rich and cultured of an environment as possible, one that lets them become interesting, disciplined, well rounded people. Make sure that they have a good and stable education, and a safe track towards college/university. That's essentially the only way an autistic person can compensate, unless they're okay with mediocrity. You have no idea how much of a living hell it can become. Take it from me.

It doesn't really matter unfortunately...as an autistic mother to autistic (and neurotypical) kids...I grew up without screens of any kind...I just escaped into other things...books all through school and then drugs when I was in my late 20s. I didn't graduate high school...have never had a real job...don't have a driver's license bc I've never driven a car...my life is pretty s*×t and I grew up without technology.

 

[Realityisawful]

It doesn't really matter unfortunately...as an autistic mother to autistic (and neurotypical) kids...I grew up without screens of any kind...I just escaped into other things...books all through school and then drugs when I was in my late 20s. I didn't graduate high school...have never had a real job...don't have a driver's license bc I've never driven a car...my life is pretty s*×t and I grew up without technology.

I think the point I made was to let your kids grow up in environments that give you social experiences. Were you socially isolated as a child and only spent your free time reading books? If so, that isn't ideal for an autistic person.

 

[Alucard]

An autist has the right to die peacefully if he don't like life.

 

[Realityisawful]

An autist has the right to die peacefully if he don't like life.

They should.

 

[ithappens]

As someone with high functioning autism, I can attest that life is not as good as it would be if I were "normal". College was frustrating. The disability office, despite being touted as helpful and there for disabled students, was a nightmare to work with. I don't know how other students did it or if there secretary there just didn't like me. But I'd go into the office to ask about what paperwork they would need for whatever it was I was looking for (and I only ever asked for things I was told were offered) and would be rudely told that I needed X document. So I'd ask for X document, at which point the main secretary would roll her eyes and lean over and grab one from a stack behind her, hand it to me, and lecture me about being self sufficient or looking in the right places, as if these documents were available anywhere else (they weren't, I was continually told to go to that office). There were times I would ask for certain services and be told they were unavailable or I couldn't have them, so I would tell my academic advisor and case manager, both of whom would get confused. One time she even gave my case manager severe attitude until she said "That's okay, I can call the dean and explain that I'm from the community mental health center and that you won't cooperate." and then she cooperated begrudgingly. The only times I wasn't treated like that was on the rare occasion she was out and the nice secretary was in, and the nice one had absolutely no problems with me, my questions, or providing forms and documents. I finally went to complain to a higher up, but she refused to tell me or my grandmother who her superior was. We found a secretary in another part of the building, who saw how visibly upset we were, and tried very kindly to find us someone who helped run the school. When he was found we explained the situation, and he continually deflected asking how my classes were going, and when I said I was managing to scrape by he said that's good, told me to be sure to seek help if I needed it, and then proceeded to do nothing about the secretary denying disabled students what they paid for and continued to deflect questions about what would be done or how I could get help if I was treated like that whenever I asked for it. Basically, they don't care whether disabled and autistic students are getting the support they could easily provide them to succeed, they just want your money and to smooth over any problems with as little expense or action on their end as possible.

But then again, that's no different than the rest of this world.

 

[Baguette]

Some damning statistics:

Being single with autism: It’s complicated

People with autism spectrum disorders covet intimacy as much as anyone but are disproportionately single. Here’s a look at the obstacles they face when it comes to flirting, romance and love

www.theglobeandmail.com

According to a groundbreaking report published this year by Toronto's Redpath Centre, people with ASDs are disproportionately single compared with the rest of the population. Only 32.1 per cent of those surveyed indicated they ever had a partner, while 9 per cent stated they were currently married. In the general population, meanwhile, about half of all adults are married.

Opinion | Adult, Autistic and Ignored (Published 2015)

There is virtually no substantive national discussion on the fate of older autistic people like my brother.

www.nytimes.com

An estimated 90 percent of adults with autism are unemployed or underemployed.

Most college grads with autism can't find jobs. This group is fixing that.

Every day is World Autism Awareness Day at Integrate Autism Employment Advisors, which connects employers with young professionals affected by autism.

moneyish.com

There will be 500,000 adults on the autism spectrum aging into adulthood over the next 10 years. Yet a whopping 85% of college grads affected by autism are unemployed, compared to the national unemployment rate of 4.5%.

Why Is the Autistic Unemployment Rate So High?

The Autistic unemployment rate is higher than the unemployment rate for all disabled Americans in general.

www.thinkingautismguide.com

In the United States, thirty-five percent of Autistic eighteen-year-olds go to college. Of those American Autistics with university diplomas, only 15 percent are employed. This 85 percent unemployment rate (among college-educated Autistic adults) is massive—the general population's unemployment rate (at all education levels) is only 4.5 percent.



What many don't realize is that the Autistic unemployment rate is higher than the unemployment rate for all disabled Americans in general (disabled people comprise about 20% of the population and have an unemployment rate of 10.5%) and higher than the unemployment rate for non-Autistic Americans with developmental disabilities (people with intellectual disabilities have an unemployment rate around 21%.)

Adults with Asperger Syndrome at higher risk of contemplating suicide - CURB

Dr Sarah Cassidy, a post-doctoral researcher in the Research Centre for Psychology, Behaviour and Achievement at Coventry University, has published the first large scale clinic study to explore suicide in adults with Asperger Syndrome, in the Lancet Psychiatry . Sarah Cassidy led the research...

blogs.coventry.ac.uk

The study published in the Lancet Psychiatry revealed a significantly higher rate of suicidal ideation among adults diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome (66%), compared with the rate found in the general population (17%), and patients with psychosis (59%). A third (35%) of adults diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome had also planned or attempted suicide during their lifetime. Suicidal thoughts and behaviours were significantly more common in adults with Asperger Syndrome and a history of depression. A second risk factor for suicide plans or attempts was a higher level of autistic traits.

Large Swedish study ties autism to early death | Autism Aspergers Advocacy Australia

a4.org.au

By contrast, the most likely cause of death among people with mild autism is suicide. The risk of suicide in these individuals is about 10 times higher than in the general population.

If humanity developed through cooperation with others, and if autism fundamentally causes issues cooperating with others (unlike being gay, or transgender, or etc.- things that don't directly interfere with your ability to cooperate with another human being) - you're strictly worse. You're going to be ostracized unfairly, but you can't expect respect from others if you haven't earned it. This causes suffering for an autistic person. The world is becoming more social: once automation kicks in and jobs continue to decrease, the ability for an autistic person to find a niche will decrease as well.

Posts like this do more harm than good:View attachment 27804

I have autism, even though I want to ctb I know of other autistic people who lead happy lives. It is absolutely immoral if you don't even give autistic people a chance to lead a happy life. Many successful people have been rumoured to be on the spectrum like Bill Gates, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin, Lionel Messi etc. I'm enraged when I see organisations like Autism Speaks supporting the hunt for an 'autism gene' so it can be removed and there will eventually be no autistic people, it's pure eugenics. Euthanasia should be available if they have suffered for a long time and there is no hope of things getting better. Neurodiversity makes the world a better place slowly, I'm sure autistic people will one day truly fit in to society but not in my lifetime unless there are huge protests but I doubt anyone would show up sadly.

 

[Fragile]

I have autism, even though I want to ctb I know of other autistic people who lead happy lives. It is absolutely immoral if you don't even give autistic people a chance to lead a happy life. Many successful people have been rumoured to be on the spectrum like Bill Gates, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin, Lionel Messi etc. I'm enraged when I see organisations like Autism Speaks supporting the hunt for an 'autism gene' so it can be removed and there will eventually be no autistic people, it's pure eugenics. Euthanasia should be available if they have suffered for a long time and there is no hope of things getting better. Neurodiversity makes the world a better place slowly, I'm sure autistic people will one day truly fit in to society but not in my lifetime unless there are huge protests but I doubt anyone would show up sadly.

Autism is just a blanket term. when people say that they want to find the autism gene, they usually mean that they want to find the gene of people in the low end of the spectrum, people who can be even non-verbal and will never be able to live an independent life because of how severe their illnesses are. they won't even be able to consent to euthanasia even if they live in severe pain due to how limiting those forms of autism can be. seriously, I've worked with patients that simply can't be managed and live in a constant state of anxiety and aggression with no way of communicating it.

I see what you're saying, but we simply can't say that all people with autism are the same and have the same opportunities in life. and at the end of the day, autism is an illnesses. I don't see the issue in trying to find the genes or environmental causes associated with it. specially because this condition has such depressing statistics associated with it. If neurodiversity really made the world a better place, people with autism wouldn't be killing themselves in such numbers or having such a low employment rate that they could be considered a drain in society. not saying that all are, but we can't ignore these statistics.

And those successful people that you mentioned are just rumored to be autistic, and even if they were, they are still in the extremely small minority when it comes to success in life and autism. It's sad, but eugenics do have a place in reducing suffering of people who will be born with incurable conditions.

 

[Baguette]

Autism is just a blanket term. when people say that they want to find the autism gene, they usually mean that they want to find the gene of people in the low end of the spectrum, people who can be even non-verbal and will never be able to live an independent life because of how severe their illnesses are. they won't even be able to consent to euthanasia even if they live in severe pain due to how limiting those forms of autism can be. seriously, I've worked with patients that simply can't be managed and live in a constant state of anxiety and aggression with no way of communicating it.

I see what you're saying, but we simply can't say that all people with autism are the same and have the same opportunities in life. and at the end of the day, autism is an illnesses. I don't see the issue in trying to find the genes or environmental causes associated with it. specially because this condition has such depressing statistics associated with it. If neurodiversity really made the world a better place, people with autism wouldn't be killing themselves in such numbers or having such a low employment rate that they could be considered a drain in society. not saying that all are, but we can't ignore these statistics.

And those successful people that you mentioned are just rumored to be autistic, and even if they were, they are still in the extremely small minority when it comes to success in life and autism. It's sad, but eugenics do have a place in reducing suffering of people who will be born with incurable conditions.

I have no problem with euthanasia for people at the complete opposite end of the spectrum from me(non verbal, no independence etc) as these people can never really live a meaningful life, I think higher functioning people should give things a chance as they have a greater chance of actually having a good life but again if they've tried like me to see if life can be good and realised it can't for them then I agree euthanasia should be available.

 

[Realityisawful]

Autism is just a blanket term. when people say that they want to find the autism gene, they usually mean that they want to find the gene of people in the low end of the spectrum, people who can be even non-verbal and will never be able to live an independent life because of how severe their illnesses are. they won't even be able to consent to euthanasia even if they live in severe pain due to how limiting those forms of autism can be. seriously, I've worked with patients that simply can't be managed and live in a constant state of anxiety and aggression with no way of communicating it.

I see what you're saying, but we simply can't say that all people with autism are the same and have the same opportunities in life. and at the end of the day, autism is an illnesses. I don't see the issue in trying to find the genes or environmental causes associated with it. specially because this condition has such depressing statistics associated with it. If neurodiversity really made the world a better place, people with autism wouldn't be killing themselves in such numbers or having such a low employment rate that they could be considered a drain in society. not saying that all are, but we can't ignore these statistics.

And those successful people that you mentioned are just rumored to be autistic, and even if they were, they are still in the extremely small minority when it comes to success in life and autism. It's sad, but eugenics do have a place in reducing suffering of people who will be born with incurable conditions.

Yep, 100%. Was planning on making a post but you said it better than I could.