Darkhaven

Darkhaven

All i have left is memories
May 19, 2019
979
The Portuguese Assisted Dying and Euthanasia movement just dealt a crushing defeat to the Pro-Life and Conservative forces, backed by the "all powerfull and omnipresent" Catholic Church.
Less than 2 years after being rejected by a conservative and Christian Democratic filled Parliament, 5 versions of a bill that intends to decriminalise physician assisted dying was just approved by a solid majority of 127 in favour against 88 against in the Parliament.
This outcome was made possible by the recent October 2019 elections that brought a majority of Socialist and Left wing progressive parties to the Parliament.
Same thing happened in Spain last week.
This the first step of a tough, social and political war that is still far from over.
Now the bill will have to be negotiated between the parties that approved it in order to come up with a final version to be sent to the President, who is a know Catholic.

The President can:

1- Aprove the bill right away (very, very unlikely), which would put an end to the issue;
2- Refuse it, but it can then be approved by the Parliament again, and it won´t need the President´s approval
3- Send it to the Constitutional Court, which is a gamble. Know one can predict what those judges will decide. Should they pronounce that the bill violates the constitution then it can still be reapproved by the Parliament but going against this Court´s decision is always seen as something polemic and frowned upon by the public opinion and political elite alike.

There is also the threat posed by the referendum proposers (pro lifers trying to turn things in their favour), who are already collecting signatures in order to sign a referendum petition. They need 60k people signing the petiton, but it has to be approved by the Parliament.

I think things in Spain are a bit easier as the parties that oppose euthanasia are weakened and the Spanish people are generally in favour of physician assisted dying.

The Laws are highly restrictive and only people with Serious, Uncurable, Severely Painful, Continuous diseases, without treatment alternatives may ask to be euthanised.
It´s also forbidden to allow mental health and demented individuals to start the process.

For people like us it doesn´t mean anything, but what if out of a sudden 2 Historically Catholic, South European Union countries legalize euthanasia and it sends waves to other countries like the UK, France, Germany, etc?
For countries such as this 2 it´s a tremendous change and a lot of Pro lifers are fuming right now.
I will definately keep an eye out.
 
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J

Jean Améry

Enlightened
Mar 17, 2019
1,098
I've read about that too. Good for those who suffer from incurable diseases I guess but still a far cry from an actual right to suicide, i.e. the right to be left alone/non-interference by the state when killing oneself privately.

I suppose we could hope this will sooner or later lead to real personal autonomy for all. 'Hope' being the operative word here.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,820
Yeah I think I heard about that a few months ago. Coincidentally, I was in Portugal around that time (early-mid October 2019) while enroute to Amsterdam. Anyways, I too hope that Portugal legalizes and/or at least decriminalizes euthanasia for terminally ill patients soon as that would be the start of eventually legalizing voluntary euthanasia in other European and what not countries around the world. Then with that, it may expand to include people with chronic illnesses and chronic suffering.
 
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nightflight

Member
Feb 13, 2020
26
Moving in the right direction at least. I predict it will be another 50-100 years before the right to die with assistance becomes universal for all "conditions" including non-medical ones such as existential depression, tired of life/completed life, basically any reason whatsoever, and at any age.
 
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TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,820
Moving in the right direction at least. I predict it will be another 50-100 years before the right to die with assistance becomes universal for all "conditions" including non-medical ones such as existential depression, tired of life/completed life, basically any reason whatsoever, and at any age.
In that case, then these laws would not be beneficial for most of us (barring the terminally and/or chronically ill with a very poor prognosis) as we would either be dead by the time these laws become universal (or at least very very old like in our 80's or 100's - if we didn't die from other causes first). However, it would benefit the next few generations ahead of us (like 3-5 generations from now).
 
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nightflight

Member
Feb 13, 2020
26
In that case, then these laws would not be beneficial for most of us (barring the terminally and/or chronically ill with a very poor prognosis) as we would either be dead by the time these laws become universal (or at least very very old like in our 80's or 100's - if we didn't die from other causes first). However, it would benefit the next few generations ahead of us (like 3-5 generations from now).

Unfortunately I think it will take that long. 70 percent of Americans still believe in a deity so a fundamental shift to true atheism will have to occur which is happening but far too slowly to evoke real change anytime soon.
 
liverpoolfan

liverpoolfan

Student
Jun 10, 2019
189
Dignitas never appealed to me - the idea of spending my last hours there seems intensely depressing - but I did check it out and they won't help you unless you have an incurable disease. I get they have to take extra care for legal reasons and the doctors who have to sign off on it have to have a 'valid' reason.... But the fact is we ALL have incurable diseases - some are just not manifest yet.
 
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N

nightflight

Member
Feb 13, 2020
26
Dignitas never appealed to me - the idea of spending my last hours there seems intensely depressing - but I did check it out and they won't help you unless you have an incurable disease. I get they have to take extra care for legal reasons and the doctors who have to sign off on it have to have a 'valid' reason.... But the fact is we ALL have incurable diseases - some are just not manifest yet.

Is the clinical nature of the service what you find depressing? It always appealed to me but it's not an option for me because I too do not have a medically diagnosed physical disease. Something about getting on a plane though knowing it's your last flight, immersing yourself in a foreign country (Switzerland is beautiful!) for a few days, seems very comforting.
 
a.n.kirillov

a.n.kirillov

velle non discitur
Nov 17, 2019
1,831
At least it would open door (think medical cannabis -> legalization). Now it won't be as easy going as with cannabis of course but these laws seem to have a tendency to get more inclusive over time as soon as they get a foothold in society, are brought into the public discourse and so on.

Thanks for alerting us to the issue! Portugal is already at the forefront of progressive policies (drugs); in stark contrast to regressive Germany where anything but drinking yourself to death or crashing with 400 km/h on the Autobahn is frowned upon.
 
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liverpoolfan

liverpoolfan

Student
Jun 10, 2019
189
Is the clinical nature of the service what you find depressing? It always appealed to me but it's not an option for me because I too do not have a medically diagnosed physical disease. Something about getting on a plane though knowing it's your last flight, immersing yourself in a foreign country (Switzerland is beautiful!) for a few days, seems very comforting.
Yes it's exactly that. I have a horror of hospitals and clinics and the like and the idea of professional carers watching me die makes me feel uncomfortable.
I want to do it alone, either in (what still remains of) the great outdoors, or in the aftermath of some insane bacchanalian orgy in some 5 star hotel which I've paid for with a credit card because fuck the banks.
 
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