Discussion Ethics and Optics of Livestreaming CTB?

[banger12]

As someone who has and is still currently debating livestreaming my CTB (for various reasons), I was wondering about what others thoughts are on the subject.

The question of the "ethics" of livestreaming it is very straightforward in what I mean by it. Is livestreaming CTB morally right?

By "optics" I'm referring to whether the action is helpful or harmful to the pro-choice ideal on CTB and support for such? Are there also exceptional cases in regards to either answer of the optical question?

Note too that this question/discussion prompt has nothing to do with the logistics of this.

Curious what people here think.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

CTB is your personal decision - whether to stream it (with the risk of ending up on gore sites) is also your personal decision. Whether people will watch the stream or not is their decision, people generally also watch public executions (in countries where they're still performed in public).

The question: How fast will the streaming platform interfere? Is it possible for pro-lifers to interfere? I'd be worried about that more than about the question of what is morally right or wrong.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Not sure how it could be morally wrong. You're choosing to livestream it. Other people are choosing to watch. The only time it would feel morally wrong would be if someone filmed it without your permission. If someone used the material for dodgy purposes- some weird gore fetish- that you hadn't agreed to.

Or- if you were coercing people into watching it. They didn't really want to watch it but you tried to emotionally manipulate them- 'I don't want to be alone. It would mean a lot if you could be there for me' etc. Because potentially, I suppose it could traumatize someone which, wouldn't be right if they hadn't chosen to witness it.

Or, you reveal who you are and where you are- which then puts the viewers in a moral quandry as to whether they should alert authorities. Bearing in mind, I imagine they could get into trouble if they don't.

As for supporting pro-choice. What is the concern there? That it is distressing to see? That it could put people off? Maybe it's best that we acknowledge what it is we're considering doing. I hope it isn't unpleasant for any of us but- if it is, maybe that also demonstrates why assisted suicide should be legalised. We shouldn't be having to subject ourselves to all this risk with DIY methods.

Ultimately though, I think it all hinges on consent. If you've consented to be filmed. If the material is appropriately labelled with warnings if it's distressing. If the people witnessing it therefore know what they're witnessing- then, it's all consensual to my mind.

 

[banger12]

CTB is your personal decision - whether to stream it (with the risk of ending up on gore sites) is also your personal decision. Whether people will watch the stream or not is their decision, people generally also watch public executions (in countries where they're still performed in public).

The question how fast will the streaming platform interfere? Is it possible for pro-lifers to interfere? I'd be worried about that more than about the question of what is morally right or wrong.

Thanks. Makes sense but I believe I'm a scumbag and i don't like that so I try to minimize my natural scumfuckery to the best of my ability and wanted to ask people to make sure I didn't have some blindspot and there wasn't something I was missing.

Platform interference falls under logistical considerations which is outside the scope of my prompt.

You do raise fair points though. Thank you.

Not sure how it could be morally wrong. You're choosing to livestream it. Other people are choosing to watch. The only time it would feel morally wrong would be if someone filmed it without your permission. If someone used the material for dodgy purposes- some weird gore fetish- that you hadn't agreed to.

Or- if you were coercing people into watching it. They didn't really want to watch it but you tried to emotionally manipulate them- 'I don't want to be alone. It would mean a lot if you could be there for me' etc. Because potentially, I suppose it could traumatize someone which, wouldn't be right if they hadn't chosen to witness it.

Or, you reveal who you are and where you are- which then puts the viewers in a moral quandry as to whether they should alert authorities. Bearing in mind, I imagine they could get into trouble if they don't.

As for supporting pro-choice. What is the concern there? That it is distressing to see? That it could put people off? Maybe it's best that we acknowledge what it is we're considering doing. I hope it isn't unpleasant for any of us but- if it is, maybe that also demonstrates why assisted suicide should be legalised. We shouldn't be having to subject ourselves to all this risk with DIY methods.

Ultimately though, I think it all hinges on consent. If you've consented to be filmed. If the material is appropriately labelled with warnings if it's distressing. If the people witnessing it therefore know what they're witnessing- then, it's all consensual to my mind.

Your response is great and very well thought out. Thank you so much I appreciate it.

I wouldn't ever do any of the ethically wrong things you described as off limits and I agree that they should be. Nonetheless, it's good to have them explicitly stated.

As for optics you raise excellent points. My fear was that were the clip to somehow become circulated or the incident to become high profile that maybe it would convince members of the public to be anti-choice. However you're right, it could be used educationally to demonstrate the barbarism of how we presently handle mental health and CTB.

The labeling point is very important and I feel both guilty and stupid for not thinking of it. I agree completely, although it does raise logistical questions, especially given risk of platform interference and the like.

Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed post.

 

[HereIGoAgain24]

First off- where are you planning to livestream? Don't nearly all the major outlets have pretty stringent rules against this (and the bots/moderators to instantly take them down)? Correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

As far as ethics... well, that's a murky subject I need to read more on. My own thinking is that (assuming it's not taken down immediately) the internet is FAR too vast a place to judge the harm or help that it would do. Some people might see it and find it a helpful way to understand what CTB would look like and decide whether it's right for them. Others might see it and use it as fuel to clamp down even more on the movement. And then there's the emotional distress it may cause others. It's extremely difficult for me to say.

As far as optics? Almost certain to be harmful. CTB is still a MASSIVE no-no for 99% of the population, including media outlets and the like. Publicizing a death for the movement really wouldn't help (I've seen people publicly kill themselves for other movements, and it's led to nothing). At best, you get a bunch of news articles denouncing this and further clampdowns from outlets.

I can't imagine this working out well. I think the best we can do is try to shepherd people who may benefit from the movement to this site (in ways that wouldn't attract serious attention from others), and hope that eventually, the stars align for the movement to really catch on.

Of course, all of this is my own speculation.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

Do you mean aesthetics in terms of death is beautiful when you write optics? For your own sake, the video of your death should have a certain aesthetics, it is your legacy your statement as suicide itself is a very strong statement.

Ethicts is not part of my vocabulary.

 

[banger12]

Do you mean aesthetics in terms of death is beautiful when you write optics? For your own sake, the video of your death should have a certain aesthetics, it is your legacy your statement as suicide itself is a very strong statement.

Ethicts is not part of my vocabulary.

No I don't mean aesthetics. I clarify this in the post and it inadvertently is elaborated on in some of the comments, but what I mean bt optics is whether or not it's harmful to public support for various pro-choice goals and efforts.

By ethics I mean is it morally right or correct.

First off- where are you planning to livestream? Don't nearly all the major outlets have pretty stringent rules against this (and the bots/moderators to instantly take them down)? Correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

As far as ethics... well, that's a murky subject I need to read more on. My own thinking is that (assuming it's not taken down immediately) the internet is FAR too vast a place to judge the harm or help that it would do. Some people might see it and find it a helpful way to understand what CTB would look like and decide whether it's right for them. Others might see it and use it as fuel to clamp down even more on the movement. And then there's the emotional distress it may cause others. It's extremely difficult for me to say.

As far as optics? Almost certain to be harmful. CTB is still a MASSIVE no-no for 99% of the population, including media outlets and the like. Publicizing a death for the movement really wouldn't help (I've seen people publicly kill themselves for other movements, and it's led to nothing). At best, you get a bunch of news articles denouncing this and further clampdowns from outlets.

I can't imagine this working out well. I think the best we can do is try to shepherd people who may benefit from the movement to this site (in ways that wouldn't attract serious attention from others), and hope that eventually, the stars align for the movement to really catch on.

Of course, all of this is my own speculation.

I highly appreciate this post. And yeah, some of this is what I feared. That it may not just be useless but actively harmful to the pro-choice movement. As for the difficulty in gauging harm you raise a strong point. I was considering streaming it on one of the shit-can services like Kick or Rumble but given the points you raise it's mire doubtful as to whether I do it. In large part I'm motivated in this line of thinking to help the pro-choice movement but it's doubtful it actually would (although it's not the only reason I have for wanting to stream it).