Daxter_87

Daxter_87

If my name is crossed out, hopefully I'm dead.
May 28, 2023
400
A problem can only be solved by identifying and addressing its root cause. If you only deal with the effects, the fix will be temporary, and it will not be long before the issue returns, either in the same or a different form. While this may sound like common sense, not many people seem to apply such obvious logic to the problem of suffering and its solution - anti-natalism. Not having children is the only answer to pain because it recognises and tackles its source, which is existence itself, whereas all other approaches are mere Band-Aids.

Let us begin by showing that life is the fundamental origin from which all torment arises and without which it would simply not be possible. This is a truism, for only after birth can you experience negative sensations, and once you are dead you are immune to them in every way. All those unsatisfied needs, all those troublesome headaches that plague you, are ultimately a result of you being alive. As other authors have commented:

As soon as you're alive, you're under constant threat, of pain/suffering/torture (whether: physical, emotional, mental, spiritual), and this forces you, to do many things (in life), that you don't want to do, (eg, jobs, chores, etc).
-- And, this threat exists, for the entire time that you are alive. (Ever Deeper Honesty, n.d., p. 57)

This extract argues that, from the cradle to the grave, you have to do many things, ranging from eating to hygiene to work, lest your body punish you if you do not meet its exigent demands. When it comes down to it, our very existence is responsible for all the hardships we go through, because if we did not exist, we would not need anything. So what is the way out of this mess? The way out is simply to refuse to procreate, which brings us to the next point.

Faced with such a dilemma, the dilemma of being, the good news is that we have the power to escape it... by choosing not to reproduce. Counter-intuitive as it may seem, the key has been within our grasp all along, for sparing our offspring from coming into the world is a tried-and-tested guarantee that they will not shed the slightest tear. As commonly attributed to Benjamin Franklin (n.d.), "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". The wisest and most effective strategy is not to solve a problem after it has occurred, but to prevent it from occurring in the first place. In the context of suffering, it is best to avoid creating life altogether, for we could easily end all agony if we did not open the door to it to begin with. Opening the door, of course, means giving birth to a child, causing all their otherwise avoidable tribulations, and then blaming scapegoats like the government and demanding a new one in the hope that it will repair our broken system.

On that note, it is remarkable how we tend to focus on issues and solutions that at best do little more than patch up a sinking boat. We mistake a dysfunctional society, wars, crime, corruption, climate change, etc. as the essential reason of the dismal state of affairs, when they are all symptoms of a much deeper illness, previously diagnosed as existence itself. Others have defined this phenomenon as parochialism:

Parochialism is a state of mind characterized by dedicating all focus to small sections of an issue, rather than considering the full context. More generally, it consists of being narrow in scope.

With EFILism and Antinatalism Vs The World, the parochialism is the fallacy that "homo sapiens", "politics", "sin", "depression", "the Illuminati", "factory farms", and a host of other myopic scapegoats are being treated like they are the root of all error, or the prime error of the world.

This is refuted by the fact that even if none of that were an object, you're still left hanging at the mercy of a useless catastrophic biological experiment of pure unintelligent design (DNA) being conducted inside a hostile and careless container (the universe). (Efilism Wiki, n.d.)

The key point is that such topics can often, though not necessarily always, turn into misleading information that distracts us from the actual origination of all adversity in our reality, which is this very reality. If your favorite political party wins the election in your country, it will not protect you from every conceivable harm; but if your parents had not created you, you would now be resting safely in non-existence. Therefore, only when we stop producing new generations will the misery end.

On the whole, anguish and distress have existed for as long as we have existed, but so has the panacea - the renunciation of reproduction. Discomfort and torture come from being embodied in a biological body, from inhabiting this world, otherwise there would be no such thing. This insight leads, on the one hand, to the conclusion that anti-natalism both fully grasps the predicament and can bring it to an end. Other proposals, on the other hand, neither get to the heart of the matter nor offer a real, lasting solution. After all, when we are in persistent trouble, we must first analyse what the underlying pattern is, and the underlying pattern in this case is crystal clear - we are born, then we suffer until we die.



References
Efilism Wiki. (n.d.). Fandom.com. Retrieved November 17, 2023, from Fandom.com. Website: https://efilism.fandom.com/wiki/Philosophy_Arena

Ever Deeper Honesty. (n.d.). Website: https://www.everdeeperhonesty.com/?m=1
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
38,317
I find it such a horrific tragedy how humans continue to impose existence, as it just creates suffering, harm, problems and needs that were all unnecessary in the first place. Existence itself certainly is the true problem, only never existing is true perfection, the only compassionate outcome is to leave the non-existent alone in peace where nothing can harm them.
 
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Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
9,426
I am actually an anti-natilist myself but... I'm going to play devils advocate here...

We don't know the true nature of life and death. We don't know for 100% sure that reincarnation isn't a thing. What if the Buddhists have it right and our souls are body hopping their way up to enlightenment? By denying them babies to 'hop into' on this planet- what if they end up somewhere worse?!! There could be somewhere worse in this universe- surely? Imagine if there is an even more horrible existence going on some place else and they/ we end up there! It's a distressing thought really...

Still- we're talking about variables we know nothing about. Pre-birth, lives that haven't come about and death. And we're saying one is objectively better than the other- when we don't know all the facts.

I don't really get why the atheists are happy at leaving the burden of proof on the religious people when it's such a major deal! As a metaphor- say there's a murky pool in Florida. One person says they think an enormous crocodile is somewhere in that pool. Another person says there's no crocodile. Neither can prove it. Would you be comfortable going in for a swim?!! I don't get how atheists are 100% sure of their disbelief. (Although I know a lot aren't.) But the whole- 'anti-natilism is the best thing for everyone' is based on knowing everything about this universe- which we don't.

That all said- I do actually agree with anti-natilism for me. I think it would be terrible for me to have children. It would break my heart to see them struggle like I have. Not to mention the obvious fact that humans are destroying the very planet we need to live on.

If I'm really honest- I don't really believe in all that reincarnation stuff either! Still- I'm not so confident that I understand everything about this universe to present anti-natilism as factually the best option for all life.

Where I'm firmly for anti-natilism is being pro-choice. I feel like choice is the most important thing we have in life. Without it- we're slaves. I don't personally believe we get the choice to be born. That choice was made for us by our parents and like you say- it can be the root cause of all our problems. So many people here wish they'd never been born in the first place. It's so sad really.

Of course, if we were free to leave this place when we wanted, that would go some way to evening out the score but- we're not. We're forced here, forced to comply or suffer for as long as is profitable and then, we likely outlive our parents and possibly die alone and in pain. That doesn't seem at all fair!
 
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CTB Dream

CTB Dream

Injury damage disabl hard talk no argu make fun et
Sep 17, 2022
2,548
I am actually an anti-natilist myself but... I'm going to play devils advocate here...

We don't know the true nature of life and death. We don't know for 100% sure that reincarnation isn't a thing. What if the Buddhists have it right and our souls are body hopping their way up to enlightenment? By denying them babies to 'hop into' on this planet- what if they end up somewhere worse?!! There could be somewhere worse in this universe- surely? Imagine if there is an even more horrible existence going on some place else and they/ we end up there! It's a distressing thought really...

Still- we're talking about variables we know nothing about. Pre-birth, lives that haven't come about and death. And we're saying one is objectively better than the other- when we don't know all the facts.

I don't really get why the atheists are happy at leaving the burden of proof on the religious people when it's such a major deal! As a metaphor- say there's a murky pool in Florida. One person says they think an enormous crocodile is somewhere in that pool. Another person says there's no crocodile. Neither can prove it. Would you be comfortable going in for a swim?!! I don't get how atheists are 100% sure of their disbelief. (Although I know a lot aren't.) But the whole- 'anti-natilism is the best thing for everyone' is based on knowing everything about this universe- which we don't.

That all said- I do actually agree with anti-natilism for me. I think it would be terrible for me to have children. It would break my heart to see them struggle like I have. Not to mention the obvious fact that humans are destroying the very planet we need to live on.

If I'm really honest- I don't really believe in all that reincarnation stuff either! Still- I'm not so confident that I understand everything about this universe to present anti-natilism as factually the best option for all life.

Where I'm firmly for anti-natilism is being pro-choice. I feel like choice is the most important thing we have in life. Without it- we're slaves. I don't personally believe we get the choice to be born. That choice was made for us by our parents and like you say- it can be the root cause of all our problems. So many people here wish they'd never been born in the first place. It's so sad really.

Of course, if we were free to leave this place when we wanted, that would go some way to evening out the score but- we're not. We're forced here, forced to comply or suffer for as long as is profitable and then, we likely outlive our parents and possibly die alone and in pain. That doesn't seem at all fair!
No this all posbl know but human arrgnt species try say not know etc, see this all nat lang talk cntrdct. Ppl still not undrstd how lang limit way think make delsn etc.
reincrnt not hpn same resn othr thing not hpn cuz species cnstrct ,can say any idea tell othre this posbl blv etc ppl blv, this cuz nat lang make logic cntrdct, nat lang 2+ meann any say any.
say crcdl exmpl this posbl can chck lgic see how can chck area etc, but if say god reincrnt etc exst this logic flcy try say any exst cuz unon this no true, tell u how flcy say if go infnt get any exmp reincrt, prsn say this 100% lie cuz infnt impsbl prsn blv this ovrwlm cuz no posbl infnt. But say also this nonsns, if say infnt have reincrt this also posbl any othre limtle cncpt, but all no posbl cuz infnt impsbl
 
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