Discussion Edward Snowden

[foxdie]

What are your feelings on Edward Snowden. I'm not American but I don't think he was a traitor. I think he did a valuable service for the entire world by exposing some of the nefarious deeds of governments. I feel I'll find a lot of agreement on this topic, especially on this site. But I'm also interested in people who feel he did something wrong. I'm interested in both perspectives tbh and I hope we can have a civil discussion on both sides. I feel he opened Pandora's box and really brought attention to the horrible deeds of modern governments, especially in the US. Is he a traitor or a hero in your eyes? Or something else?

 

[Grav]

I think he's not a hero and probably at least a criminal but maybe not full blown traitor. I've followed more direct spying cases and he falls into a "robin hood" type case vs "enemy of the state". But having said that he knew the penalty he faced and went ahead with it. It's interesting that all the hubbub about his actions is pretty irrelevant today as (at least in the US) people can't be more eager to let corporations and governments monitor their lives and give up what little privacy they had. So I guess his goal failed in the long run in my opinion.

 

[foxdie]

I think he's not a hero and probably at least a criminal but maybe not full blown traitor. I've followed more direct spying cases and he falls into a "robin hood" type case vs "enemy of the state". But having said that he knew the penalty he faced and went ahead with it. It's interesting that all the hubbub about his actions is pretty irrelevant today as (at least in the US) people can't be more eager to let corporations and governments monitor their lives and give up what little privacy they had. So I guess his goal failed in the long run in my opinion.

I totally agree that his efforts failed. Too many people are so willing to give up there own personal privacy. But I don't think he did anything criminal. But that's just my own personal view. He may have endangered people who were active in the field, but can we really say those actions were justified? For me, I think not. But I'm endlessly fascinated by those who think otherwise. I have always wanted to really understand those I disagree with but I feel I've failed in this mission a lot in my life. I think he did a service, maybe not perfectly so, to the world by exposing the hypocrisy of modern governments, especially in the US.

 

[Grav]

Just going by the letter of the law (right or wrong) he violated it so criminal (punishment is a different matter). If I give job information to a competitor because I think fees being charged should be less I get in trouble, civilly prosecuted and probably financially ruined. I guess I don't look at a government as anything but a necessary evil so there needs to be watchdogs and such but I also understand there's a reason some things are secrets. His decision to violate that and then claim "it's for good" justifies any behavior. Questions of what government is doing is something that should be discussed, which we don't do because it makes the brain hurt. Most of what goes on in government really isn't a secret, it's just easily overlooked by all the new shiney.

 

[DocNo]

i find it crazy that whisteblowers are often villainized.
of course they have sometimes to break the law or a contract but i guess it's justifiable if it's in public interest. and it shows more for me that many laws are not made to serve public interest but to protect a few wealthy or powerful people - i only say berlusconi ^^
there are lots of examples where this whisteblowers had to face much more severe consequences than the companies or institutions which seen in terms of public interest did much more damage than good.
you also see it with assange. nils melzer the united nations special rapporteur on torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment made this pretty clear that there are severe violations in the legal proceedings. this went so far to even change one of the women's statements without her involvement in order to make it sound like a possible rape.

 

[Grav]

I agree whistleblowers take a risk, but I see 2 kinds of it. There's the "doing something illegal and don't want to get found out" and there's the "i'm supposed to keep something secret but feel like telling". Most laws aren't for us but I do believe there are people who want to do something bad (not to the extent we're being told though) and will exploit any avenue to do that. People like Snowden think they're doing something righteous but can easily be contributing to something worse. Granted I have not followed much of his story or Assange.

 

[Makko]

He and his sort are wasting their efforts. He's not telling people anything they shouldn't already know and he's not harming or changing the system in any meaningful way. Worthless.

 

[Brick In The Wall]

I think what Snowden and Assange did was very brave. We've passed legislation to protect whistleblowers yet when someone does say something we try to prosecute them. It makes no damn sense but then again what does anymore?

 

[BitterlyAlive_]

Hehe, I think you and I have spent quite a bit of time discussing this. I don't see a problem with it, personally. As @Brick In The Wall said, Snowden and Assange are brave. I respect their efforts. And if the truth makes things worse, oh well. We're screwed anyway. I think it's better to know all of the deep shit that goes on anyway. Wish I had more to say, but this is the best I can do right now.

Also Assange was kinda cute ngl

 

[mediocre]

The fact that he and Julian Assange risk being prosecuted pretty much proves the US is not a democracy. I find it funny how they should face prosecution but the US government that has committed many crimes face zero repercussions.

The fact is that the US government can get away with things that many other governments around the world could not. The US should have many sanctions but it's only them that can give them out it seems..