Discussion downside of suicide prevention; hindering natural selection?

[_Minsk]

hi there, i just had the thought about natural selection. maybe suicide is actually a natural thing, i mean its nothing unheard of and could be considered a normal thing since all humans get suicidal at some threshold. what if it actually is part of the natural selection mechanism? and if so, wouldn't it contribute to a happier life for our whole species and future generations? when people are depressed and suicidal due to genetic disadvantages, wouldn't it be the best to allow those people to have access to assisted suicide? or even access to Peaceful methods so we can go with dignity? i know it might sound harsh but isn't it the way nature is designed? maybe im wrong, its just a thought i had

 

[Superdeterminist]

This is a very interesting idea, and it's something I've thought a lot about as well. It's obviously difficult to know because we haven't yet determined the precise causes of suicidality. I would attest that suicide is definitely natural, insofar as it is a behaviour produced by the brain, itself a natural thing.

IIRC the current consensus is that suicide is roughly 60% environmental and 40% genetic, although that is subject to change, perhaps drastically. This implies that genes play a big role, so supports the idea that suicide prevention interferes with natural selection, to some degree.

With environment, the question is much more complex. To what extent do suicidal parents shape their children's environment? No doubt hugely, but there are a myriad of other factors to consider.

There's also the question of just how many suicidal people actually procreate in the first place. I'd imagine that it's less than the non-suicidal population, but perhaps not significantly.

Another important question is, just how effective IS suicide prevention in preventing suicide before individuals have children? This is unknown, to me at least. The more effective prevention is, the more it interferes with natural selection.

I definitely do agree that implementing assisted suicide would help to create a happier society, by allowing the unhappy to check out much more efficiently. It's hard to imagine that we'll ever see suicide disappear completely, though. But never say never.

 

[noaccount]

Whatever happens, is natural selection.
It can't be departed from.

The things that make people want to live and die, are socioeconomic more than genetic.
ZIP code is a stronger predictor of health outcomes than BMI.

Disabled people being given life-long accomodations to live fulfilling lives, is not the same as suicidal people being kept alive non-consensually.

 

[yep]

I completely agree with you. The only thing I could see arguing this is the pain other people have to deal with. As humans we try to avoid pain emotional and physically, when some one dies it can cause a lot of hurt to their loved ones. I think to avoid this hurt happening they will try and prevent it even if it may be selfish.

 

[erehbus]

Natural selection strictu sensu does not happen anymore - it has been replaced by an artificial one (in the sense that genes that help the species adapt no longer matter, but genes that the species find attractive do). In that sense, suicide prevention is the same as preventing people who suffer allergies from dying or helping disabled people exists confortably.

To me the nasty part of suicide prevention is that they are saying they know more about what I feel and want than me. It is the absolute restriction of freedom.

 

[Smellanie]

Nah this sounds like some eugenics type shit to me. The way you word it "wouldn't it be the best to allow those people(people with 'bad' genetics) to have access to assisted suicide?" Is kinda yikes. Like I think any adult should be allowed to ctb, doesn't matter the genetics, but never encouraged or told it's evolution just weeding out the losers. Trying to rationalize it as "bettering the species" is fucked. Its putting a band aid on actually trying to fix peoples problems. Like who cares about healthcare just kys. Also just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good. Example: infantiside is super common in nature. Sorry if I come off rude but imo this is just a big nope to me. Like ya if everyone who was sad died the world would be happier but that's a ridiculous system to try to implement/encourage.

 

[JAG_78]

In my case definately natural selection. My environment (family etc etc) has been as good as it gets really.
It's all on me. Well at least 95% me.