_Minsk
death: the cure for life
- Dec 9, 2019
- 1,111
Have seen plenty of suicide prevention campaigns, posting hotlines, quotes and even motivational content, but does it work?
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a.n.kirillov
velle non discitur
- Nov 17, 2019
- 1,831
I am not well read and neither a scientist, so all of what I'm going to say is pure speculation.
There are several suicide prevention methods that do in fact work, some of them are:
1. Making attractive methods unavailable, and thereby raising the threshold for people to kill themselves. An easy (reverse) example of this mechanism would be legalizing Nembutal, which would probably raise the numbers of suicides, or it would be a factor for an increase. There might be other factors that would decrease the suicide rates after a legalization of Nembutal; for example, people might not become desperate and rush into a suicide because they know they have a peaceful, reliable method at their disposal.
2. Stigma and controlling people by psychiatric power. People are less likely to attempt suicide if they are treated like criminals by the institutions and ostracized by friends and family in case of a failed attempt. But stigma could also be a factor that increases suicide rates by alienating people and driving them into isolation and desperation.
3. You mentioned hotlines. These serve the functions described in 2), they are there to hand you over to psychiatric power or, if they can, talk you down from it. I can only imagine this as being a temporary band aid in the cases it is successful and if nothing changes in the person's life, they will attempt in the future.
4. (Empty) hope, optimism, motivational talks and so on. This is part of every psychotherapeutic model, for example CBT, albeit in a negative sense, by using reason to attack your pessimistic assessments of your life situation. I am not yet sure what to think of hope. When people express that they have hope, or that there is a reason to have hope, they mean that there is still a probability of circumstances turning out in your favor. You might confabulate hope out of thin air by deluding yourself into thinking that things are looking better than they actually are, and in this sense, they are merely a way to distract, a band-aid. "False" hope (based on a false assessment of probabilities) will keep you alive, but only as long as you don't see through them.
Edit:
5. Censorship. You might have heard of the Werther effect, which is the phenomenon of an increase in suicide rates after people are exposed to famous (or even fictional) people taking their own lives. So censoring accounts of suicides, which is practiced in a very elaborate manner—there are rules for example to never call a suicide 'successful', never include the method, etc—will prevent suicides; simply because, if the idea never occured to you and got into your head, or the idea that suicide is a viable option never occured to you, you will either not consider it at all or shy away from it.
.
6. Everything that actually improves the person's condition or circumstances, so real help, someone offering you a job, someone helping you file for unemployment, someone giving you money, someone helping you move, someone being there for you, solving your problems or help you acquire the necessary skills to deal with problems.
But this is not what people think about when they think of 'suicide prevention'. They want some easy, quick fix, or a complicated fix as long as they don't have to do the work (they can hand it over to psychiatry).
There is an conflict of interest between suicide preventionists and us if you think about it. Preventionists hold that suicide is the problem, preventing it is the solution; while for us suffering is the problem and suicide is the (or a) solution. What we want is a solution to our suffering, what they want is stop us from killing ourselves. Suicide preventionists never talk about suffering and when they do, it's always the suffering of those left behind.
There are several suicide prevention methods that do in fact work, some of them are:
1. Making attractive methods unavailable, and thereby raising the threshold for people to kill themselves. An easy (reverse) example of this mechanism would be legalizing Nembutal, which would probably raise the numbers of suicides, or it would be a factor for an increase. There might be other factors that would decrease the suicide rates after a legalization of Nembutal; for example, people might not become desperate and rush into a suicide because they know they have a peaceful, reliable method at their disposal.
2. Stigma and controlling people by psychiatric power. People are less likely to attempt suicide if they are treated like criminals by the institutions and ostracized by friends and family in case of a failed attempt. But stigma could also be a factor that increases suicide rates by alienating people and driving them into isolation and desperation.
3. You mentioned hotlines. These serve the functions described in 2), they are there to hand you over to psychiatric power or, if they can, talk you down from it. I can only imagine this as being a temporary band aid in the cases it is successful and if nothing changes in the person's life, they will attempt in the future.
4. (Empty) hope, optimism, motivational talks and so on. This is part of every psychotherapeutic model, for example CBT, albeit in a negative sense, by using reason to attack your pessimistic assessments of your life situation. I am not yet sure what to think of hope. When people express that they have hope, or that there is a reason to have hope, they mean that there is still a probability of circumstances turning out in your favor. You might confabulate hope out of thin air by deluding yourself into thinking that things are looking better than they actually are, and in this sense, they are merely a way to distract, a band-aid. "False" hope (based on a false assessment of probabilities) will keep you alive, but only as long as you don't see through them.
Edit:
5. Censorship. You might have heard of the Werther effect, which is the phenomenon of an increase in suicide rates after people are exposed to famous (or even fictional) people taking their own lives. So censoring accounts of suicides, which is practiced in a very elaborate manner—there are rules for example to never call a suicide 'successful', never include the method, etc—will prevent suicides; simply because, if the idea never occured to you and got into your head, or the idea that suicide is a viable option never occured to you, you will either not consider it at all or shy away from it.
.
6. Everything that actually improves the person's condition or circumstances, so real help, someone offering you a job, someone helping you file for unemployment, someone giving you money, someone helping you move, someone being there for you, solving your problems or help you acquire the necessary skills to deal with problems.
But this is not what people think about when they think of 'suicide prevention'. They want some easy, quick fix, or a complicated fix as long as they don't have to do the work (they can hand it over to psychiatry).
There is an conflict of interest between suicide preventionists and us if you think about it. Preventionists hold that suicide is the problem, preventing it is the solution; while for us suffering is the problem and suicide is the (or a) solution. What we want is a solution to our suffering, what they want is stop us from killing ourselves. Suicide preventionists never talk about suffering and when they do, it's always the suffering of those left behind.
This shit is simply self absorbed, virtue signaling, hypocritical, disgusting vomit. I would have more respect for someone who tells me straight to my face that he doesn't give a shit about me than these cunts, who say they do but act like they don't.
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PrettyMoose
Eat my arse, Pain&Sh*tness & Mindf*ckitation Grift
- Mar 1, 2020
- 280
What a goddamn awesome point you made there! Your whole post was great but I just had to highlight that paragraph. So fucking true.
TAW122
Emissary of the right to die.
- Aug 30, 2018
- 6,826
I think it works on people who aren't fully committed towards CTB or are still indecisive. However, for people who have planned, rationalized it, and came to the conclusion after a long period of deliberating and suffering it is just an unnecessary obstacle that makes the chronically and truly suicidal even worse. If it gets bad enough they will still attempt it, but may even cause collateral damage as a consequence (depending on the method chosen). As for the people who have made up their mind, the current model of suicide prevention only deters them from asking for help, especially if they know that one of the possible consequences if being locked up, given prisoner/criminal treatment, then billed thousands of dollars (medical and hospital bills) that they are unlikely to pay off, not to mention all the existing problems that are still there. If anything, it would only send them over the edge.
I second this as well.
Una
Write something, even if it’s just a suicide note.
- Feb 28, 2020
- 87
Those types of 'prevention' campaigns sickens me. Not only because their real purpose, however well disguised it might be, is to promote their organisers and sponsors, but mostly because they serve as a collective 'feel-good' pill.
Let's us wear yellow, pink, or whatever is the colour of the moment, throw few well-worn motivation slogans, and voila – we have all done our bit for those poor, lost souls … dwellers of city's pavements, shops' doorways, underbridges, broken cars, and when lucky homeless shelters … arriving pissed, drugged, raped, jobless. Rehab and Inpatient veterans. Scars up to the eardrums. Battle-scars of the life's weary brigade.
On our way home from another well organised and well attended 'suicide prevention' campaign, we stop by our local pub to shoot the breeze with our mates over a pint or two. We declare how sorry we feel for those unfortunate souls and how grateful we are for all our blessings. We do anything we can to help. Anything amounting to purchasing a t-shirt or whatever it might be each year during a 'suicide awareness' campaign. Which usually coincides with the release of the annual suicide statistics. Which has been showing upward trend year on year since 1950s. Despite all the 'campaigns' and all the 'hotlines.' The conclusion is obvious.
I once asked whether any of the well-meaning citizens would be willing to, instead of purchasing an item, spend time with those painfully lonely because chronic loneliness and social isolation are great risk factors. The good citizens could not quite grasp the concept. They lead busy lives.
For decades, suicide prevention, however framed, has been firmly focused on preventing the actual act of suicide. In a manner that has effectively swept all the social ills that pave the road to most, if not all, suicides, under the collective carpet. To not upset peaceful dreams of sober citizens.
Patting one self on the back for dragging someone of the window ledge, only to send them back to their shitty life from which they tried to escape on the first place, equipped with few flimsy pamphlets and links to self-help sites, is no act of kindness. Not by a long shot. Not in my book anyway.
Let's us wear yellow, pink, or whatever is the colour of the moment, throw few well-worn motivation slogans, and voila – we have all done our bit for those poor, lost souls … dwellers of city's pavements, shops' doorways, underbridges, broken cars, and when lucky homeless shelters … arriving pissed, drugged, raped, jobless. Rehab and Inpatient veterans. Scars up to the eardrums. Battle-scars of the life's weary brigade.
On our way home from another well organised and well attended 'suicide prevention' campaign, we stop by our local pub to shoot the breeze with our mates over a pint or two. We declare how sorry we feel for those unfortunate souls and how grateful we are for all our blessings. We do anything we can to help. Anything amounting to purchasing a t-shirt or whatever it might be each year during a 'suicide awareness' campaign. Which usually coincides with the release of the annual suicide statistics. Which has been showing upward trend year on year since 1950s. Despite all the 'campaigns' and all the 'hotlines.' The conclusion is obvious.
I once asked whether any of the well-meaning citizens would be willing to, instead of purchasing an item, spend time with those painfully lonely because chronic loneliness and social isolation are great risk factors. The good citizens could not quite grasp the concept. They lead busy lives.
For decades, suicide prevention, however framed, has been firmly focused on preventing the actual act of suicide. In a manner that has effectively swept all the social ills that pave the road to most, if not all, suicides, under the collective carpet. To not upset peaceful dreams of sober citizens.
Patting one self on the back for dragging someone of the window ledge, only to send them back to their shitty life from which they tried to escape on the first place, equipped with few flimsy pamphlets and links to self-help sites, is no act of kindness. Not by a long shot. Not in my book anyway.
a.n.kirillov
velle non discitur
- Nov 17, 2019
- 1,831
Who was the member that said suicide prevention was like closing the window on someone who wants to jump out of a burning building?
Whoever it was, they deserve the credit for it, because it is a perfect metaphor.
Whoever it was, they deserve the credit for it, because it is a perfect metaphor.
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