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KillingPain267

KillingPain267

Enlightened
Apr 15, 2024
1,746
Most of my reason to ctb is because I have been made to feel like an undesirable (economically, socially, physically, culturally, romantically, sexually and more) by other humans who seem superior or hostile to me.

But I guess there could also be very successful people who still somehow can't shake off suicidal ideation regardless?
 
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DivineSpark

DivineSpark

Experienced
Feb 9, 2025
240
When I think about my personal achievements in life ( career, family, children) I feel like total failure, a loser.
 
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sadalways

sadalways

My birth was an error
Sep 5, 2024
294
I haven't achieved like.. anything in life. Makes me feel like a complete undesirable failure that was doomed to fail from the start. I'm an easy replacement for like anything. It sucks.
 
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EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
4,248
Considering the number of famous cases of people who are successful and desirable who do ctb, I would say no.
 
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Gangrel

Gangrel

Mage
Jul 25, 2024
502
I think yes and no. Each case has different reasons, can't really say it's one thing and that's it.
 
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JesiBel

JesiBel

4rp14
Dec 5, 2024
244
Yes. It's like the world denies your existence. As if there's no place for you. When all your efforts to improve or get out of the abyss are in vain... A living ghost who can't get out of the darkness.
 
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chernobyl

chernobyl

New Member
Apr 11, 2021
3
Personally, I think yes. Well, nature and nurture. My opinion is that it's natural selection at work - the mind and intelligence (cognitive & emotional) is the key modern factor of evolution so that humans "progress" and only the fittest survive. Looks/health too but less important these days than in the past due to tech advancements and the infinitely growing wealth gap.

I think that the suicide rate will grow at an exponential rate as more are cut from the workforce/society, and the population will decrease significantly with only the elite technocrats propagating and all the robots and automation tending to their needs. Especially as climate change destroys a lot of resources/food and public infrastructure. People will either suffer and not have children, or they'll off themselves.

There is a slim possibility that altruism will step in and help as that's always been a key evolutionary factor for species fitness, but IMO that's unlikely. Maaybe in advanced and socialist countries like the nordics where there are support systems and community/collective strength.

Sry…doomer here, and just my 2 (severely depressed / insecure) cents.
 
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W

wiggy

Student
Jan 6, 2025
145
Both those things necessitate a subjective frame of reference. You shouldn't organize your value system solely around what makes you desirable to others, although it's probably useful to take into account to some degree.
As far as being a biological failure, it's not that simple either - people tend to bring this up in the context of natural selection, but within that framework there's very little(if any) that's meaningfully unique about any given individual genome. Natural selection ought to be viewed through the lens of population groups or the genes themselves.
 
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qualityOV3Rquantity

qualityOV3Rquantity

Experienced
Jul 27, 2024
209
Most of my reason to ctb is because I have been made to feel like an undesirable (economically, socially, physically, culturally, romantically, sexually and more) by other humans who seem superior or hostile to me.

But I guess there could also be very successful people who still somehow can't shake off suicidal ideation regardless?
Personally I think I'm very attractive and smart, although I'm a bit shy and awkward. But I'm suicidal almost exclusively due to chronic health problems
 
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R

rs929

Arcanist
Dec 18, 2020
421
You can be Brad Pitt and be depressed and suicidal. So, no.
 
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imsotired35

imsotired35

She/her
Apr 6, 2024
86
No. Success looks different for everyone. Lots of people have successful lives but have still cbt.
 
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needthebus

needthebus

"Treatment" Used Up My Allotment of Fake Smiles
Apr 29, 2024
735
Most of my reason to ctb is because I have been made to feel like an undesirable (economically, socially, physically, culturally, romantically, sexually and more) by other humans who seem superior or hostile to me.

But I guess there could also be very successful people who still somehow can't shake off suicidal ideation regardless?
I think people who look different are subject to a huge amount of cruelty and meanness by others...

but also it depends on the culture and where you live...

this happens everywhere, but in some places it's just worse than in other places

there are cities and countries known for kindness

if you don't look handsome or pretty, you could try moving to one of the cities that are more liberal and also kinder and less status conscious

i don't know the city you live in, and PLEASE DON'T POST THAT OR TELL ME, but sometimes going somewhere less unkind can help

if you look different, find a job you can do remotely. it can be data entry, it can be accounting: people always need accountants. If you have money, you have some degree of control. You can afford rent. You can pay for sex workers if needed. You can pay for drugs occasionally if they make things better and you can do them in a fun way without getting addicted (some people can't do this and will get addicted, if you have an addictive personality stay away from drugs).

It's still not a great life. A great life is people checking you out and one day, someone who is hot checks you out and walks over to you and starts talking. If you look unattractive, you usually don't get that. People's conception of what is attractive does vary a lot, however, so you may get that even if most people find you unattractive. But realistically, it may take a lot longer.

If you are in a city with kinder more accepting people, you'll make friends more easily. It is smart to make friends with other people who look a little bit different if you can because they are more likely to treat you well.

It's important to consider that beautiful people are also just vicious to each other too. There are many beautiful people in Ukraine being needlessly killed, beautiful people in Gaza being needlessly killed, and beautiful people who sometimes commit suicide due to poverty. People generally are just vicious, vile, and awful to one another, and it's often done in subtle ways with complex justifications, but it's bullshit: most people fucking suck.

It's really hard to see so many others having it easier and to not feel jealous, hurt, left out, angry, and miserable as a result. And then ultimately it does come down to a choice and what you want to do.

Sex workers are hated for a reason. It's not because they make money from sex, it's not because they spread disease (since many of them are safe and careful), and it's not because they do something shocking. It's because they are often having sex with people who are unattractive, and mean sadistic assholes exist who do not want unattractive people to have fun. Just look at India with it's untouchable caste: the sadism was basically enshrined in their religion and society for many years and still is on some level.

Sex workers are some of the kindest most awesome people that exist.

My point is, you do have the option to stay alive and have a decent and possibly even great life if you just ignore the haters and accept that some things will be harder.

It's really hard to find a good accountant. Seriously.

I know you are thinking about attempting and possibly close to it, but if this is your only reason, you have some options. It's just that some people do want the traditional normal old-fashioned relationship, and that would be harder.

If you can make good money and are a straight man, it's much easier to get a woman making good money. It's harder for others. If you are unattractive, train for a profession that has a shortage. People always need accountants. It's hard to find someone good. Do not train for a profession with a surplus or competition if you look a bit different.

People are ugly or not attractive for different reasons and it doesn't mean someone is a biological failure exactly. Sometimes someone really unattractive will have 1 flaw and it gets taken care of and they look good after. Beauty can mean great physical health, but sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes someone has acne growing up and they have bad acne scars but are totally healthy later on. Sometimes a guy will have a small chin and it doesn't mean he's defective, just that he was in a higher estrogen environment in utero, and he gets a chin implant and ends up looking normal. (Warning: procedures like that often look really bad if done poorly, and can make people with different bone structure look worse. Beauty is not as simple as "make more manly looking" = "sexy" which is why many people who do stuff like that look worse after, because there is a lack of harmony if the person who does it lacks artistry.)

I get you are miserable and the world sucks. But people sometimes do choose to work and are somehow able to overcome their circumstances by working and making money, although it's harder and harder for people to do that.

I am sorry if this post is offensive in it's realism, but people who don't look great do sometimes end up having okay lives, sometimes even marrying someone nice looking and having children and being somewhat normal.
 
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KuriGohan&Kamehameha

KuriGohan&Kamehameha

想死不能 - 想活不能
Nov 23, 2020
1,775
Personally, I don't think so, there are so many different reasons for why a person can end up becoming suicidal. I think some of us have been hurt very badly by others in life, while some could have experienced all the love and nurture on the planet and still end up this way. A few celebrities come to mind, Robin Williams in particular.

He was a universally beloved actor, had a talent for charming others, making them laugh, had a great family life, only to become ill with lewy body dementia in his older age. It is a common misconception that he secretly was harbouring resentment towards life/what one would consider to be mental health issues, and that is what drove him to suicide, when the real reason was losing his ability to function due to dementia. I think this was why his death was a huge shock to the public, because it was hard to imagine such a successful person being driven to the point of hanging himself in his closet, it doesn't align with the stereotype of a depressed individual.

Also, I don't think biology has any real "reason" to it or conscious sense of selection, it is all very random imo. I don't think one should think lesser of themselves or if they have failed due to the myriad of random genetic and environmental factors beyond our control, especially when with phenomena like epigenetics it is possible for gene expression to follow a steady trajectory only to suddenly veer off course and be altered by a new factor appearing in one's environment. Though, I do think there are certain risk factors that predispose some people to being more prone to suicidal tendencies.
 
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F

Forever Sleep

Earned it we have...
May 4, 2022
10,964
Plenty of successful people kill themselves. Some people with pretty severe forms of depression still manage to be successful. Even seemingly toxic people sometimes still seem to be able to attract a partner. I think there are a whole number of variables.

Personally, I can understand why I would be undesirable to be around though. Plus, it wouldn't suit me either. I'd likely feel the need to pretend a person had helped me yet I'd likely continue to feel just the same. I think that could end up feeling more lonely than actually being alone. I do understand why a more positive person could become very frustrated with someone like me.

As for whether we are a biological failure. Not sure really. Sometimes I've wondered that. Maybe because we weren't able to adapt to thrive in this world. But then, I consider what you probably have to be like to survive in this world. Trump and Musk are doing pretty well. Do I want to be like them? No. Do I want to exist in a world or bring children into it populated by people like them? No. If this is the way the human race is going then, I'm only too glad to reject it.

In any case, depressed, suicidal, mentally ill people do still have children sometimes I suspect. So- from a biologically evolutionary point of view- it doesn't always prevent the perpetuation of those genes.
 
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KillingPain267

KillingPain267

Enlightened
Apr 15, 2024
1,746
I think people who look different are subject to a huge amount of cruelty and meanness by others...

but also it depends on the culture and where you live...

this happens everywhere, but in some places it's just worse than in other places

there are cities and countries known for kindness

if you don't look handsome or pretty, you could try moving to one of the cities that are more liberal and also kinder and less status conscious

i don't know the city you live in, and PLEASE DON'T POST THAT OR TELL ME, but sometimes going somewhere less unkind can help

if you look different, find a job you can do remotely. it can be data entry, it can be accounting: people always need accountants. If you have money, you have some degree of control. You can afford rent. You can pay for sex workers if needed. You can pay for drugs occasionally if they make things better and you can do them in a fun way without getting addicted (some people can't do this and will get addicted, if you have an addictive personality stay away from drugs).

It's still not a great life. A great life is people checking you out and one day, someone who is hot checks you out and walks over to you and starts talking. If you look unattractive, you usually don't get that. People's conception of what is attractive does vary a lot, however, so you may get that even if most people find you unattractive. But realistically, it may take a lot longer.

If you are in a city with kinder more accepting people, you'll make friends more easily. It is smart to make friends with other people who look a little bit different if you can because they are more likely to treat you well.

It's important to consider that beautiful people are also just vicious to each other too. There are many beautiful people in Ukraine being needlessly killed, beautiful people in Gaza being needlessly killed, and beautiful people who sometimes commit suicide due to poverty. People generally are just vicious, vile, and awful to one another, and it's often done in subtle ways with complex justifications, but it's bullshit: most people fucking suck.

It's really hard to see so many others having it easier and to not feel jealous, hurt, left out, angry, and miserable as a result. And then ultimately it does come down to a choice and what you want to do.

Sex workers are hated for a reason. It's not because they make money from sex, it's not because they spread disease (since many of them are safe and careful), and it's not because they do something shocking. It's because they are often having sex with people who are unattractive, and mean sadistic assholes exist who do not want unattractive people to have fun. Just look at India with it's untouchable caste: the sadism was basically enshrined in their religion and society for many years and still is on some level.

Sex workers are some of the kindest most awesome people that exist.

My point is, you do have the option to stay alive and have a decent and possibly even great life if you just ignore the haters and accept that some things will be harder.

It's really hard to find a good accountant. Seriously.

I know you are thinking about attempting and possibly close to it, but if this is your only reason, you have some options. It's just that some people do want the traditional normal old-fashioned relationship, and that would be harder.

If you can make good money and are a straight man, it's much easier to get a woman making good money. It's harder for others. If you are unattractive, train for a profession that has a shortage. People always need accountants. It's hard to find someone good. Do not train for a profession with a surplus or competition if you look a bit different.

People are ugly or not attractive for different reasons and it doesn't mean someone is a biological failure exactly. Sometimes someone really unattractive will have 1 flaw and it gets taken care of and they look good after. Beauty can mean great physical health, but sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes someone has acne growing up and they have bad acne scars but are totally healthy later on. Sometimes a guy will have a small chin and it doesn't mean he's defective, just that he was in a higher estrogen environment in utero, and he gets a chin implant and ends up looking normal. (Warning: procedures like that often look really bad if done poorly, and can make people with different bone structure look worse. Beauty is not as simple as "make more manly looking" = "sexy" which is why many people who do stuff like that look worse after, because there is a lack of harmony if the person who does it lacks artistry.)

I get you are miserable and the world sucks. But people sometimes do choose to work and are somehow able to overcome their circumstances by working and making money, although it's harder and harder for people to do that.

I am sorry if this post is offensive in it's realism, but people who don't look great do sometimes end up having okay lives, sometimes even marrying someone nice looking and having children and being somewhat normal.
9mbnud
 
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Saturn_

Saturn_

Arcanist
Apr 22, 2024
467
Let's look at this much more broadly -- everyone knows we're in the midst of a serious mental health crisis. It would be odd that there is just a sudden uptick in biological failures due to the advent of phones, useless technology, loneliness, monopolies, political corruption, nihilism, and cultural attitudes of cynicism and hopelessness. Why were there coincidentally many less biological failures just a few decades back? Talk about breakneck "evolution." Biology? Or just an environment which makes it very difficult to thrive?
 
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needthebus

needthebus

"Treatment" Used Up My Allotment of Fake Smiles
Apr 29, 2024
735
BTW, the guy on the left is like literally exactly what I look like. It's like you're staring into my camera and seeing the real me.

Accountants do not work 525x harder. It's so hard to find a good accountant. Do that just at like 1x normal and be halfway decent and people will seek you out.

I'm sorry things are so hard.
 
O

OhWellDerp321

Student
Jun 1, 2023
142
I wouldn't say being suicidal means you are an undesirable and a biological failure.
It's more the opposite. Being an undesirable and biological failure makes me want to suicide.
 
Jaded_Wolf

Jaded_Wolf

Member
Feb 13, 2025
18
I think while there may be shared characteristics among suicidal people, (feeling despair, unloved, lonely, hopelessness, frustrated, etc.) the nature/nurture of what contributes to one's suicidal ideation can be highly variable. Having the "perfect life" is not a guarantee you will never experience suicidal ideation, nor does having a very difficult life means you'll be cursed with suicidal ideation.

Sometimes I think the simplest approach may be best: feeling suicidal simply means you have suicidal ideation. It doesn't mean anything about your value or how successful you are as a person.
 
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amomentspeace

amomentspeace

Member
Mar 2, 2025
72
But I guess there could also be very successful people who still somehow can't shake off suicidal ideation regardless?
I would call myself successful. At every point in my life it seems I have been blessed. Yet I am still here. I do feel somewhat like an outsider here due to how easy life has been on me, I think its called impostor syndrome. Makes it harder to ctb because I'd be throwing away an opportunity not many have and that would be better used by someone else.
 
T

TheSeeker

New Member
Mar 1, 2025
1
Most of my reason to ctb is because I have been made to feel like an undesirable (economically, socially, physically, culturally, romantically, sexually and more) by other humans who seem superior or hostile to me.

But I guess there could also be very successful people who still somehow can't shake off suicidal ideation regardless?
It is definitely one of the reasons and the reason I have given up. But not the only reason. Plenty of people with good genes and huge accomplishments have killed themselves. Life just kind of sucks.
 
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KillingPain267

KillingPain267

Enlightened
Apr 15, 2024
1,746
BTW, the guy on the left is like literally exactly what I look like. It's like you're staring into my camera and seeing the real me.

Accountants do not work 525x harder. It's so hard to find a good accountant. Do that just at like 1x normal and be halfway decent and people will seek you out.

I'm sorry things are so hard.
Haha. My brother has the same haircut and is Gen Z so I always tease him that he looks like the meme.

I know they don't work 525× harder literally. But as for me, I sucked at math and got bad grades because school without a proper social life was simply not worth it. I just turned inward to enjoy hobbies like nature and politics alone. So I limited myself from what stable careers I could pursue, and didn't take it seriously because I was told there was this wonderful world of loving accepting people out there once I become an adult and I could be anything I like. So nobody is seeking out my non-existing skills. I don't really care anymore actually. It's good to finally know that humans are either hostile to each other or parasitic and true self-sacrificing love doesn't exist from within humans. So I am just waiting to die, but want to speed up the process because I'm bored and am on the verge of drug relapses which are more destructive long term than fun.
 
needthebus

needthebus

"Treatment" Used Up My Allotment of Fake Smiles
Apr 29, 2024
735
Haha. My brother has the same haircut and is Gen Z so I always tease him that he looks like the meme.

I know they don't work 525× harder literally. But as for me, I sucked at math and got bad grades because school without a proper social life was simply not worth it. I just turned inward to enjoy hobbies like nature and politics alone. So I limited myself from what stable careers I could pursue, and didn't take it seriously because I was told there was this wonderful world of loving accepting people out there once I become an adult and I could be anything I like. So nobody is seeking out my non-existing skills. I don't really care anymore actually. It's good to finally know that humans are either hostile to each other or parasitic and true self-sacrificing love doesn't exist from within humans. So I am just waiting to die, but want to speed up the process because I'm bored and am on the verge of drug relapses which are more destructive long term than fun.
if you like nature you could work in the tourism industry near a large park or natural reserve. there are plenty of hotels that probably need help with simple things, Yosemite, the grand canyon, all of them have hospitality places that need workers

it's cool if you don't want to, and just interested in ctbing, but if you like nature there's stuff for people even with an education or skills. gift shops need workers, hotels need people to bring fresh towels, tours of things like the grand canyon need guides to help out
 
FinalDestiny

FinalDestiny

God’s in his heaven. All’s right with the world.
May 30, 2022
20
Most of my reason to ctb is because I have been made to feel like an undesirable (economically, socially, physically, culturally, romantically, sexually and more) by other humans who seem superior or hostile to me.

But I guess there could also be very successful people who still somehow can't shake off suicidal ideation regardless?
Hey there. My idea regarding suicidal ideation actually lies on individual terms and tolerances that may be affected by negative social interactions or other factors.

Read the first few chapters of John Grisham's "The Testament" if you want a better idea of my perspective. I remember being profoundly touched by the use of suicide in the book to tell the story.

As such, suicide to me is a choice a person makes to make a situation better. I personally agree with public opinion that it's a drastic response and I believe it's usually done because the situation that sparked it has become so dire. Anyway, just because I agree that suicide is a very disruptive change doesn't mean that I'm not also suicidal myself.

I think the only difference between me and those who have already done it. They had the courage I lack to overcome my instinct to survive.
 
KillingPain267

KillingPain267

Enlightened
Apr 15, 2024
1,746
if you like nature you could work in the tourism industry near a large park or natural reserve. there are plenty of hotels that probably need help with simple things, Yosemite, the grand canyon, all of them have hospitality places that need workers

it's cool if you don't want to, and just interested in ctbing, but if you like nature there's stuff for people even with an education or skills. gift shops need workers, hotels need people to bring fresh towels, tours of things like the grand canyon need guides to help out
We don't really have big parks for tourism in my country, but it's a good suggestion actually. Maybe a museum, which we have plenty of.
 
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