It used to be that the main reason to avoid CTB was I didn't want to hurt the few people that I knew would be devastated (family members). But more and more I am thinking - why do I think they are even real? Why do I think anything outside myself, my own experiences and feelings, is real? I don't see any reason to believe it.
Darkover
Angelic
- Jul 29, 2021
- 4,627
Solipsism as a belief is about the self perceiving the world as what the self believes the world is. Individuals experiencing solipsism syndrome feel reality is not 'real' in the sense of being external to their own minds.
are you a wikipedia bot?
Darkover
Angelic
- Jul 29, 2021
- 4,627
yes aka botmaker the universe is the real deal
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vampire2002
weeb & neet ♡
- Oct 8, 2023
- 134
yes, i have these thoughts quite often. my brother once told me it's much, much more likely for a single brain to pop into existence than it is for an entire universe. and there's no way to prove that anybody else is real. it really messes with my head. sometimes I think this whole stupid "society" is constructed in my own head and every bad thing that happens is a way i'm inadvertently tormenting myself. i think about if the people and animals i've spent so much time worrying over, loving, crying for, and trying to please were nothing more than figments of my own imagination. it's not like i 100% believe they're not real, i don't know for sure, it's just a doubt in my head. most of the time i don't think about it when interacting with them. sometimes i talk to my cat and say things like, "you're real, right? you have to be. i believe you're real." and i think i sound a little unhinged. i haven't really told anybody else i have these thoughts before because of course their reaction would be "yes, i'm obviously real, the world doesn't revolve around you", but is that just my brain telling itself what it wants to hear? i don't know. it's good for me not to dwell on these thoughts, as i tend to dissociate and fall into existential dread over it.
R_N
-Memento Mori-
- Dec 3, 2019
- 1,442
Reality is very real. How we perceive said reality may differ tho.
In short, that is how I see it.
In short, that is how I see it.
voyager
Don't you dare go hollow...
- Nov 25, 2019
- 965
Yeah, Darkover is right. Might also be dissociation/depersonalisation. Not saying this isn't real, but it's not like anyone can actually prove that this is indeed real. As they said in the Matrix, going by one's senses what we consider real is merely electrical impulses in our brain, thereyby open to manipulation. There's another thing bothering me too. Neither spirituality nor science can explain the universe per se. We may think we're living in a universe that's about 13.6 billion years old, but what was before that? Say a hundred trillion years for starters, or infinity? Same goes for it's boundaries. We don't know where and if it ends, and even if it did, what's beyond that? Again infinity. Space and time are not exactly reasonable concepts. So no matter how bad our reality is, at least the laws of physics seem to apply here for the time being, and apart from death, we seem to know all the equations.
That aside, even if we accept this as real, it means in a 100 years probably no one will remember us or what we did, in far less than a 1000 we'll be completely forgotten, and there's a time all of this will go for humanity, this planet and the universe itself too, It's all pointless to a degree, which is probaby why this moment is really all that counts, i.e. real... ffs.
That aside, even if we accept this as real, it means in a 100 years probably no one will remember us or what we did, in far less than a 1000 we'll be completely forgotten, and there's a time all of this will go for humanity, this planet and the universe itself too, It's all pointless to a degree, which is probaby why this moment is really all that counts, i.e. real... ffs.
If nothing is real and everything is a figment of my imagination, I gotta say my imagination made a massive W when imagining bananas, amazing fruit.
Darkover
Angelic
- Jul 29, 2021
- 4,627
everything that exist came into existence from nothing from simple beginning comes complex things if you prescribe to the idea that god created everything that doesn't explain what created god the obvious conclusion to be drawn is that something did come into existance from nothing
the fact that we exist proves its real
I usually don't think about it when I'm talking to other people. I understand I have to "pretend" that they are real - it's part of the "game" that is happening. ("Game" is not really the right word, but I don't know how to phrase it differently. I don't know why all of this is happening, or even what all of this is.)
I also wanted to say - for me it's really a comforting thought more than anything. But I have moments where I feel like I'm being selfish believing in it...
Indeed. Some experiments have been consistent over small scales of "space" and "time" ... it seems like that's pretty much it.
Soooo sounds like you're all on board, nothing is real.
voyager
Don't you dare go hollow...
- Nov 25, 2019
- 965
So, nothing creating the universe is scientific but nothing creating God is phony? Not saying neither is fact, but sounds contradictory to me. Nothing is nothing. Hawkins even said we may never find out what came before our universe, therefore he can't have been to sure it was nothing to begin with. There's also ideas that time turns in on itself, universes get destroyed thereby creating new ones and so forth, the role of black holes might also be factor here. But where and how did it all begin and how could it ever end?
What's more, you can't prove to me that you're real, as much as I can't prove it to you. We accept it, but prove? Thinking about my life, I was there, and yet sometimes it feels like it wasn't even real, and just leading to this very moment, and the next, and the next... Determinism factors into this as well. Was it really us who made those decisions or just our personalities/circumstances based on an unfathomable amount of factors? We might as well be watching a movie and whatever happens next has always been determined. Therefore, what is real? Consciousness? But if there was no consciousness how could anything have happened in nothingness?
I really don't think we can answer this, and death is an equation we don't have.
R_N
-Memento Mori-
- Dec 3, 2019
- 1,442
This doesn't make sense to me.
If we both witness something like glass breaking, how is that not real?
How we experience and see things individually may kinda differ but some things overlap and we see it in similar way.
I think you guys are getting lost here tbh. You can't just say nothing is real when things have consequences for everyone regardless how you perceive it.
voyager
Don't you dare go hollow...
- Nov 25, 2019
- 965
Yeah, I get what you're saying, but that's the idea behind solipsism. You don't even know if I'm real, do you? Or anyone. And as mentioned, if you add time and space into the equation this might as well have never happened. We can't even prove it did. Because when death comes in it's all nothingness again, this is like a counterforce to reality. And yet here we are... But you're right, I am getting lost, because I can't answer this, and I don't think anyone ever could.
PS: Thought of another thing, what Darkover said about God and a scientific universe, if we accept both could be created by nothingness, wouldn't that actually add some sort of magic to the universe? After all, our world is governed by the laws of physics, God shouldn't abide by these rules though, right?
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Because there is no "we." I witness a glass breaking. And I also witness you witnessing the glass breaking.
I think I should have been more clear upfront. I didn't mean that I think literally nothing is real. What I meant is that only my experiences are real. I have no proof, evidence, or really any reason to believe that you or your own experiences are real.
Darkover
Angelic
- Jul 29, 2021
- 4,627
the fact we are even having this conversation and that there are intelligent replies to me proves we both exist
voyager
Don't you dare go hollow...
- Nov 25, 2019
- 965
Maybe you're imagning this conversation though based purely on your own intelligence? Maybe... you're God? :)
That's especially hilarious considering we started off this thread with me thinking you were a bot... and I wonder, why would you think I'm not a bot??
voyager
Don't you dare go hollow...
- Nov 25, 2019
- 965
Exactly, just to get this straight, I do think all of us are real and conscious at this very moment here. But I think actually proving each other real is just as impossible as explaining the history of the universe. We're lacking information, problem is that this information might not exist, and perhaps never did, you know?
Yes... it's a tree-falling-in-the-woods situation. We can never know. Other stuff outside of my own mind might be happening. Maybe all kinds of stuff. Maybe stuff that has just nothing to do with the other people I interact with. But it is impossible to ever know.
hermestrimegistus
Specialist
- Sep 16, 2023
- 341
Was raised catholic (casually, not very strict) and when I was younger I went through a series of belief systems to try to cope with trauma and understand the world. I was a militant atheist, an atheistic satanist, and at one point nothing more than a solipsist. I thought no one else was actually real. Not in a purposely narcissistic way. I just felt disconnected and alien. Like other people were NPCs and material reality was just one grand illusion I was the only one dealing with it. Now I have a very gnostic leaning and I don't have the same solipsistic beliefs. Though I do think a percentage of people might lack the divine spark that animates others and maybe have sort of an empty vessel/no real thoughts other than eat-work-sleep going on in their head. So I would say at some point my philosophy was basically Strawberry Fields Forever and now its a bit more complicated. I definitely think material reality is an illusion. I don't think we are our bodies. They're just vehicles. I'm of the current belief that we might just be one single consciousness split up into a bunch of people in order for it to experience itself
R_N
-Memento Mori-
- Dec 3, 2019
- 1,442
I feel I am being trolled. -.- But maybe I am not real so that is not happening.
R_N
-Memento Mori-
- Dec 3, 2019
- 1,442
voyager
Don't you dare go hollow...
- Nov 25, 2019
- 965
Indeed. In this world we accept trees falling without us being there. But if there was a time before consciousness and existence (which would include quantum mechanics), thus pure nothingness, time would effectively be meaningless, and yet so crucial for anything to "fall". Some even believe that is where our universe is heading, into infinite nothingness, which in essence is denying our existence.
Hehe. But that brings up another matter, if this weren't real, we wouldn't be on a suicide forum, because our suffering would be meaningless. Pure nihilism. Therefore we accept reality, but can't prove it.
Just some other ramblings;
There's a very interesting case in Britain of a man (Clive Wearing) who fried his brain with a fever. The result is that he has a recollection of a mere seven seconds. He's basically jumping from one conscious moment to the next and spent the last forty years writing his thoughts into a journal. Naturally, he writes the same thing over and over, because each time he thinks this is indeed it, he's finally regained consciousness after all these years, he's real. Sure, we can tell him he's ill (and they do), but he can never tell. Not saying we are ill, but the brain is so very easily deceived.
I wasn't trying to be fallacious calling Darkover God. Such a being formed from nothingness might create existence itself but never be able to tell it's own origins. It's a bit wild, but the same issue.
Like hermestrimegistus, trauma led me to dissociate. The simplest answer would therefore be madness and yet no person has (nor most likely ever will) answer these questions. Not feeling part of this world anymore is actually one the most glaring issues in this whole ordeal. :/
I thought about this "problem" many times before.
How do I know that I am not the only real human and everyone else are some computer generated bots made by whoever made this "matrix" reality, in order to trick me into believing in this reality?
Well, I have no way of knowing for sure.
So it's better not to think about it and just accept reality as real.
How do I know that I am not the only real human and everyone else are some computer generated bots made by whoever made this "matrix" reality, in order to trick me into believing in this reality?
Well, I have no way of knowing for sure.
So it's better not to think about it and just accept reality as real.
R_N
-Memento Mori-
- Dec 3, 2019
- 1,442
What if I told you that you are right about the matrix? Would you believe me?
I am not a bot if I confirm what you said as truth, there are no ulterior motives obviously.
Again I have no way of knowing 100% that you are not a computer generated bot.
Even if you told me the "matrix" is real it doesn't change anything.
You might be programmed by the "creator" or "creators" of this "matrix" reality to say that to make me believe you are not a bot.
R_N
-Memento Mori-
- Dec 3, 2019
- 1,442
MatrixPrisoner
Enlightened
- Jul 8, 2023
- 1,578
Humans are the virus. The cure needs to come soon.
