Do you consider the label "pro-death" or "pro-suicide" an insult?

[noname223]

Some people consider themselves promortalists on here which is equivalent to "pro-death". I am not that much into it but for me there is still a difference between pro-death and pro-suicide. But I am not sure. Moreover one can of course come to this conclusion for one's own life. That death and suicide is the right solution but to draw a line when it comes to the lives of other people. There is also this thought experiment whether one would press the red button which could make humankind disappear immediately I have forgotten the answer of David Benetar on it. I once watched a Youtube video of that.

Personally I see this forum as pro-choice but there are different understandings of what pro-choice means in this forum and also in different online communities.

For me personally pro-death seems less offensive than pro-suicide. I am not exactly sure why. I don't like it that this forum is called death cult. Maybe it is because one could see being pro-death as the end result of antinatalism. But it is a more existential step to end life which already exists instead of simply stopping procreation.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

I'm pro-death , pro-suicide for me .

Any person that is in extreme torture has no escape no guranteed method to escape their pain and torture.

Millions of people are suffering with no way to escape their pain. 29 million people worldwide attempt suicide per year, mostly with brutal , risky unreliable methods.

I couldn't care less what other humans do wether they want to live or die doesn't matter to me.

They have taken away everyone's most important right the right to easily move away from pain in a guaranteed way.

it is these irrational pro-life beliefs that cause this horrible trajedy and injustice

Even on this site no one is allowed to say "life is bad" or else they'll probably be labeled pro-death or pro-suicide.

no where else can anyone discuss suicide only this site.

I couldn't care less what other humans do wether they want to live or die.

but i guess if i post how bad pain is or how i think life is bad in general , or how I think normies are not in reality : people think that i am for them dying or pro-death or pro-suicide. the slander against this site twists things to give that impression . no what does it matter to me what another human does or doesn't do. all humans will die anyway . so some stranger deciding they will die in 10 years verses now how will that change my problems? not in one bit. yeah i think they are wrong when they say life is a gift. but i'm not advocating for government to mandate killing them . but many are for mandating people suffering not being able to have a guraranteed way to escape pain and that is the situation in the world. they banned all the painless methods, guaranteed methods like nembutal assisted suicide and made them crimes . so they made this world a prison. They took away everyone's right to escape extreme pain , torture and suffering.

yeah i think any sentient being is better off not existing because they can't suffer unbearable pain but while alive they can and will grow old . so i think people are wrong when they say life is a gift. but i'm not advocating for controlling their decisions whether or not they want to live or grow old . if they want to risk extreme pain and old age well go ahead i don't care what's it to me . but many pro-lifers want to stop strangers from escaping extreme pain. and they have . every one has the right to live nobody is going to put them in a mental hospital for wanting to live or grow old .but anyone who says they want to kill themselves is put in a mental hospital . so we don't have to right to die or to escape unbearable pain , we are not free, there is no freedom , we are slaves prisoners and this life was imposed . i didn't ask to be born but i can't escape extreme pain because they banned nembutal and assisted suicide made those crimes.

It's illogical and evil to want to keep strangers alive when they are suffering extreme torture. but that's their beliefs and they have made that the law. plus it's just alive for a while because we all die anyway no matter what.
so who cares what i am i want to reach non-existence for me. every human is going to die anyway. The sun will destroy the earth and all life eventually . the universe is expanding into heat death then nothingness

I don't know i guess people have never seen anyone say life is bad so they assume that I'm advocating for the death of everyone . I'm for individual autonomy individual choice . if someone wants to live or die they should have the right.

can someone tell me logically how does what a stranger do or not do change my problems or affect me in any way? I couldn't care less what some stranger does or doesn't do . I don't understand we all are going to die and not exist forever anyway....

 

[Spike Spiegel]

If I'm being honest I see more hate directed towards "pro life" people on this forum then pro suicide or pro choice. I think people who want this to be a death forum get annoyed when that stereotype is not upheld. Regardless as someone who is pro individual choice, both to engage in suicide and to try and help others recover, I see no issue with either term.

 

[Sprite_Geist]

It depends on the context in which both of these terms are used...

Generally the terms: "pro-death" and "pro-suicide" are used negatively by people and groups outside of this forum, and are said in a way to accuse those who use this forum of supporting coercive suicide or even murder; in this context I am absolutely against using these terms because this does nothing more than give a warped perspective of this community, and it also (probably) factors into the reason why so many are against Sanctioned Suicide despite them never coming here themselves.

Though within this community the two terms are used to describe someone who simply has a total dislike of living, and believes that suicide is always the answer. I personally do not hold this view, because I generally have a more neutral/indifferent-leaning perspective of life currently, but I still think that it is a valid outlook to have since a given person might have experienced too much suffering to enjoy their life; as long as nobody is pushing "pro-death" onto others; this would be equally wrong as forcing somebody to live.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Personally- yes- I would actually use the term pro-mortalist as a criticism/ insult. It's one thing to think death/ suicide is the best choice for yourself. It's another to think it's the best choice for every living creature on this earth. That seems like God level thinking to me.

I don't like the militant pro-death or pro-life approach because both of them deny the individuals right to choose. Both are arrogant in their own way. Both claim to know what is best for another living creature. You can't acknowledge and respect a living creature's capacity and right to choose if you think you know best for it!

Both basically say the same thing but are just polar opposites- ie. I'm going to call you delussional if you don't think like I do. Personally- I think that is the delussional way to think and worse- there's no room there for understanding. No room for mediation.

It's a problem for us when it comes to pro-lifers because it means they won't even entertain trying to understand the ramblings of a 'crazy' person. On the other hand, I think the promortalists here likely come across as extremist to regular people. (Basically, stuff like: Nembutal should be OTC for everyone from birth, no questions asked.)

It will be their posts they quote when they want to portray this place as a death cult. That said- free speech and all that. It's good there's still somewhere people can vent like that. The problem I have is when the media and critics take that viewpoint to be representative of everyone here. It really isn't!

There are maybe only a handful of pro-mortalists here. I don't actually think even they would directly direct someone to kill themselves either! The most they'll do is assume it's their best option- like every other living creature and wish them well in their attempt. But yeah- most people are pro-choice I think.

The other issue I have I guess is the lack of introspection and fallibilty in any belief that is so extreme that you are effectively making (life changing) decisions for other people (if you could anyhow.) That goes for pro-life people just as much as pro-death.

A neighbour of mine had a breakdown once. He seriously considered selling all his possessions and going to live in a nearby park- amongst other things. Anyhow- it was his own admission that he had gone off the rails. I asked him what it felt like and he said- absolute clarity. It felt like he had seen the light and knew the truth about the world.

I suppose- the issue I have with any kind of text that claims to be the 'universal truth' is- it echoes of this to me. What's worse is- many of us here have diagnosed mental impairment for one reason or another. If you know for sure or even suspect your brain isn't functioning 'normally'- how can you claim to know the truth about all life?!! How can you be deciding you know better than someone who's brain is working differently- possibly in a more 'normal' way to your own?!!

It's something I don't understand and it's something that annoys me. I think we have a right to feel annoyed that the pro-lifers out there are disregarding how we think and feel because they presumably chalk being suicidal up to being insane. Yet- pro-mortalists do the exact same think and don't see the irony/hypocrisy!

Maybe they're not going as far as wanting to kill everyone- for their own good- although, one or two might if they could! Still- they wouldn't see any problem in the rules becoming so relaxed that anyone could kill themselves on a whim. Not only do I think that's unwise- because people can do things impulsively. They somehow think that would be a practical solution too and I can't for the life of me think why. Like- parents are going to be just fine with their 7 year old topping themselves with Nembutal!

So yeah- maybe as a philosophy, it holds weight- non existence surely has to be better than a life full of pain for instance. The issue is- once that life has begun- that being itself will develop its own ideas on whether life is worth living or not- regardless of how much pain it is experiencing. Both pro-lifers and pro-mortalists bulldoze over what that individual is feeling though because they think they know about life. I don't think it's fair to do that- so yes, I'd criticise pro-lifers and pro-mortalists for this same reason.

 

[Dysgenic Pup]

I agree with Sprite_Geist in that it is dependent on the context.

I just see the terms as ambiguous. Pro-suicide = in favor of suicide, but in what way? Are you in favor of suicide for yourself as a personal choice? Are you a (sadistic) advocate for the suicide of others just for the sake of the act itself? Or are you an advocate for the right of one to commit suicide for the sake of self-sovereignty?

I think any of those definitions can work for pro-suicide as a broad term, but they all have different implications. I think most of us typically associate the second definition with the term pro-suicide and the third definition with the term pro-choice (pertaining to suicide). The term pro-choice is a much better descriptor of the ideology of this site, in my opinion. Most people outside of this community would just label pro-choicers as pro-suicide as they believe the second and third definitions are synonymous. So, I suppose it is insulting in the way that the typical use of the term maliciously mischaracterizes people who are pro-choice in actuality.

 

[boblong]

Personally , I'm pro-choice in this forum . I never push anyone to suicide . If anyone ask for a method , I merely gave out a suggestion. So being called pro-suicide is an insult to my honor.

 

[peaches]

If I'm being honest I see more hate directed towards "pro life" people on this forum then pro suicide or pro choice. I think people who want this to be a death forum get annoyed when that stereotype is not upheld. Regardless as someone who is pro individual choice, both to engage in suicide and to try and help others recover, I see no issue with either term.

I also refer to myself as pro choice.
That means that everyone has the right to make their own choice for who they are, and how they feel about their circumstances.

 

[F@#$]

Some people consider themselves promortalists on here which is equivalent to "pro-death". I am not that much into it but for me there is still a difference between pro-death and pro-suicide. But I am not sure. Moreover one can of course come to this conclusion for one's own life. That death and suicide is the right solution but to draw a line when it comes to the lives of other people. There is also this thought experiment whether one would press the red button which could make humankind disappear immediately I have forgotten the answer of David Benetar on it. I once watched a Youtube video of that.

Personally I see this forum as pro-choice but there are different understandings of what pro-choice means in this forum and also in different online communities.

For me personally pro-death seems less offensive than pro-suicide. I am not exactly sure why. I don't like it that this forum is called death cult. Maybe it is because one could see being pro-death as the end result of antinatalism. But it is a more existential step to end life which already exists instead of simply stopping procreation.

My body my choice. Right?