Venting Do you believe that it’s better to never exist at all?

[FuneralCry]

I certainly do, and I believe that never existing at all is the most desirable outcome. The reality is that never existing at all, and being completely unaware of this world is what is ideal. Nobody can be harmed by nonexistence, and once someone is brought into this world they will inevitably suffer in some way and such a thing is completely unnecessary. And of course they have to die, and while I believe that it's something that is beautiful to permanently not exist, dying is rarely peaceful and pleasant, so if someone exists they are destined to die and never being born would prevent this fate. We are all destined to return to non existence so therefore as a result there is no value in having to exist, I view it as being better to prevent an unnecessary useless existence that serves no purpose other than to cease to be. Life leads to nothing and nowhere other than to die where this life will inevitably be forgotten about, so there could never be a benefit to creating harm all for the sake of it by bringing life here.

I believe that life existing in this world could never really be positive as life is so uncertain and unpredictable, existing involves so many risks and we cannot predict the extent in which we will suffer in the future. It seems as though in this world there is no peace and relief to be found from suffering, so to me it's such a cruel thing to procreate all for selfish reasons. And there is the fact that despite the fact that existing is something so hellish and burdensome there is no straightforward way to exit which further proves that it's better to never exist at all. We exist in a society where existence is viewed as an obligation rather than a choice, it's apparently "irrational" to want to prevent the possibility of even worse torture, and of course the attitudes towards suicide just lead to more suffering.

The reality is that nothing can be gained by existing and never being born at all would had prevented all of life's problems. Life certainly is an insignificant cycle of suffering that exists all for no reason, so as a result of course it would be best if there was nothing at all. The reality of this existence could never be acceptable to me or desirable, the only thing that could ever be close to being a relief is the thought of existence finally coming to an end.

 

[ChildrensITV]

Yes

 

[zenishere]

Maybe, but then I would not have seen the good things as well. Don't know how I feel about that. And I've also seen the gruesome and painful things. Overall, I think the awful side of the coin is a lot heavier than the delusional side.

 

[redeyepiranha]

Sure I've experienced good things in life, but it wouldn't matter if I haven't experienced them at all. I believe that the bad moments outweigh the good ones.

 

[dumpstermagic]

if it's gonna be like before i was born when i die, fuck it. this is all temporary and i dont have to care about it

 

[SilentSadness]

You are right, there are very few positive things to say about living. Apart from the illusion of happiness and serving a non-existent God, there really is no good reason to be here. Personally though, the thought of my eventual death doesn't comfort me much because it seems so far away and it looks like it will be gruesome. There could be nothing better than me never having been born, but unfortunately I'm still here so I have to make do with the terrible fate I've been handed. I suppose other people would say their happiness is more than just an illusion, but I think inside they are much sadder than they look and also that my life is worse than theirs anyway. Even the most joyous of lives to me seem riddled with bitterness and misery which I never want to have to experience, but I guess they enjoy it so they can choose to live if they want to. I also think that a lot of people would genuinely prefer not to have to deal with me, so it seems so pointless and unnecessary for me to be here. I don't find much fault in what you have said and the way a certain person depicted you as a monster is just cruel. But I guess I still hope you find happiness and peace, even in this tragic play.

 

[Unending]

Yes, birth opens the door to risk that would not exist otherwise.

 

[Sulyya]

It's tricky to agree that 'nothing can be gained by existing' - it depends on what you consider to be value or worth. If the only value is prevention of any or all suffering then that philoshopy stands to reason. And it may be true. This is one possible spectrum maybe - I'm guessing smarter people in the past have a better one I'm not aware of.

1. For some people, they think that any suffering is unacceptable no matter the potential counterbalances, and that human life shouldn't exist - period
2. For some people, due to suffering they have felt, taking a sort of genie wish to never have been born would be preferable to life, for those who wish it
3. For some people, experiencing a few important positive things in their life is worth their constant suffering and suicidal ideation, even if it's unbalanced
4. For some people, spreading positive things to others is a goal personally worthy to them, despite their own constant suffering and suicidal ideation
5. For some people, pain is disregarded almost all the time for taking/spreading maximum enjoyment from life, despite knowing how it ends

Maybe the 'normie' position is 5, and it hates suicidality and is the source of that stigma.
Mine is usually 4 and frequently moving to 2 and back. All of them can be argued pretty well I bet and probably have been in some way.

I also believe in a soul but tried not to take that into account, just assuming death is a nil state for now.

 

[Shadowlord900]

I'll have a better idea once I know what the after-life is like. (If there even is an after-life.)

...I'd probably still choose to CTB even if I knew there wasn't going to be an after-life, if that means anything to you.

 

[CantWait2D1E]

Certainly it seems like non-existence is preferable to the suffering we are enduring now.
But what would not existing feel like? How would we know if that is really better? These are questions that are just impossible to answer.

I think all and all, I'm glad I got to exist. I would've never gotten to experience Star Wars or Warhammer, alternate universes I absolutely love. I would've never gotten to watch any of the shows and movies I enjoyed or played the video games I got lost in.

Yeah, life has been good at times. I just think the good times have run out for me. I'm content with it all but I just don't want to stick around for the inevitable "plateau" and "decline"

 

[sadandlonely99]

Fuck yes

 

[Forever Sleep]

For me- yes. Plus- I think existence is WAY too risky to inflict upon a non consenting baby.

Still- now that I'm working with the 'normies' again, it makes me realise how likely abnormal that seems to them. Someone asked me the other day why I didn't have or want children. I didn't really like to say- because I think it's cruel! Or, that I think life is shit- or- that I didn't want them to turn out like me! Better at least to try and come across as 'normal'. I just said I had once liked the whole fairytale romance myth but it just didn't come to fruition.

Ultimately it's a gamble. It obviously pays off for some people but I think the risks are too high. I'd feel utterly heart broken to know that my child was feeling how I have felt.

 

[shalashaska]

This is a time I think of the phrase "better to have loved and lost then to have never loved at all". I'm 50/50 on this question. I personally think that being in love or feeling it is the only thing worth feeling in all existence. It is worth being alive to feel that, if only for a moment. Once that is lost, or only felt for a moment, or you mess it up, or hurt them, or they hurt you, or you get ripped apart, it all crowds out the love that was felt before. The rest of life is just endless disappointments, endless suffering until the day you inevitably die. So it really depends on if you think its worth being alive for the slim chance of feeling pure euphoria for even just a moment. Thats my worthless opinion on this lol

 

[OutOfTheVoid]

i agree 100%. im an antinatalist and pessimist, so i consider it unethical to bring life into existence and i believe that existence inherently entails suffering. i wish life had never formed in the first place. i wish the universe never formed. and on a personal level, i wish i was never born. i wish i never existed.

the only thing that brings me 'hope' is the thought that one day i will die, that eventually all life will cease to be, that eventually the universe will end, that all will return to oblivion.

 

[ExistHarm]

It's tricky to agree that 'nothing can be gained by existing' - it depends on what you consider to be value or worth. If the only value is prevention of any or all suffering then that philoshopy stands to reason. And it may be true. This is one possible spectrum maybe - I'm guessing smarter people in the past have a better one I'm not aware of.

1. For some people, they think that any suffering is unacceptable no matter the potential counterbalances, and that human life shouldn't exist - period
2. For some people, due to suffering they have felt, taking a sort of genie wish to never have been born would be preferable to life, for those who wish it
3. For some people, experiencing a few important positive things in their life is worth their constant suffering and suicidal ideation, even if it's unbalanced
4. For some people, spreading positive things to others is a goal personally worthy to them, despite their own constant suffering and suicidal ideation
5. For some people, pain is disregarded almost all the time for taking/spreading maximum enjoyment from life, despite knowing how it ends

Maybe the 'normie' position is 5, and it hates suicidality and is the source of that stigma.
Mine is usually 4 and frequently moving to 2 and back. All of them can be argued pretty well I bet and probably have been in some way.

I also believe in a soul but tried not to take that into account, just assuming death is a nil state for now.

4 is what i struggle with, a bit. if through my antinatalist activism, i can prevent even 1 new human from existing, i have to say that a lot of suffering would be worth it for that. it worked for me, if david benatar had ctb theres a good chance i would have procreated. but alas there is unbelievable amount of suffering in the entire world as it stands, and we have a right to die on our own terms and i want to exercise it eventually

 

[poa.alpina]

Absolutely agree!
There is an argument "what about the good stuff?", but is it really worth it just forcibly surviving each day just for a little pleasure out of whatever one enjoys?

(venting ahead)
I am honestly angry and disappointed with my parents. They just made a mistake (me). I hope at least they are having fun, because I am certainly NOT. I feel obligated to "fix it". Just imagine it, you have nothing better to do so you make an autistic piece of s.. to suffer for a lifetime :( I often wonder in how many ways I just ruined the day/work environment for everyone by simply existing. How much better it would all be without me.

 

[Anon1337]

It really depends what situation you're born into. If I was a billionaire I wouldn't want to CTB. My childhood and some of my adult life was good. I'm grateful that I got to experience life, but it's time to go because I can't find much satisfaction from it. As long as CTB is an option I don't see a problem. If CTB wasn't an option I would agree with you.

 

[liffey]

Definitely agree with this. I don't really care about the 'good things' that I would miss out on, as they are only needed in life to balance all the suffering. If I never existed, I wouldn't need to feel happiness at all. I would take everlasting peace over everlasting happiness. Everyone else can live normally without me, except probably my parents. I was unwillingly brought into existence without a chance to leave without a trace.

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

Yes!!!

 

[LaVieEnRose]

For me it would have been. Can't speak for anyone else.

 

[ttg30000]

Yes, absolutely. So, as I am here, I want to go with as small a footprint as possible.

 

[SuicidalSheep]

Yes but the problem is you can never be glad about not existing because you don't exist.

 

[Dead Ghost]

I can only give a personal answer, that is to say, from my point of view, I cannot be objective.

I believe that life can only be enjoyed in a constant balance between the things that make you feel good and the things that make you feel bad. Unfortunately, neither of them come alone, you have to work as hard to get the good ones as you do to cope with the bad ones.

But there are people who do not have that balance, either they have a life based on pure suffering or a boring life in which everything is easy and that does not bring them anything even though they have everything at their fingertips.

In my case, life, existence, marvels me since I was a child, I enjoy a lot (or rather I enjoyed many years ago when I had some time for myself) of everything that surrounds me (light and colors above all).

I wouldn't mind taking someone to this world to show them all the wonders there are, the problem is the fear that I would have to be a person who would not support his own existence, as it happens to you yourself Funeral ... this would make me very sad because I would feel responsible even if I really wasn't (that should explain it well).

You know, even in a place like SaSu I am afraid to express myself honestly and sincerely, I think I could put myself in a lot of trouble that I cannot cope with in any way....

In my day to day life I have two lines mixed in the way I conceive my life or existence, one based on free will in which I am responsible for everything and another based on determinism in which I am only a spectator of the events that are happening in my life.

From the point of view of free will:
I am responsible for my birth because I had a strong will to live and it would not have been possible to be born without my stubbornness to go out into the world... I have memory since I was two years old and that is exactly what I remember, that despite the fear I suffered because of my whole social environment, I had a strong will to want to go forward, more than I have ever been able to feel again (and I am 45 years old).... and I think I must have been much stronger the day I was born, I have no doubt... but for some reason this strength faded away when I was 6-7 years old, I was already very burnt out from receiving indifference from others and I closed myself in... and that's how I am still, although a little more open to everyone nowadays (age gives you a different kind of strength than when you are young, it gives you more security, control and sense).

My mother had two miscarriages, they were healthy children but for some reason they were never born... in theory I should not have been born either, but as I say I remember my will to live when I was 2 years old, so I say it again, nobody forced me to be born, I wanted to be born, I chose to be born, it was my will to live... if that strong will that I had would have diminished, I would not have been born.

From the deterministic point of view:
Maybe another day I'll explain it to you, I'm not ready. I'm sorry. I'm a real scaredy-cat!

//

Jo només puc donar una resposta personal, és a dir desde el meu punt de vista, no puc ser doncs, objectiu.

Crec que la vida només és pot gaudir en un equilibri constant entre les coses que et fan sentir bé i les que et fan sentir malament. Malauradament cap de les dues venen soles, has d'esforçar-t'hi tant per aconseguir les bones com per fer front a les dolentes.

Però hi ha persones que no tenen aquest equilibri, o bé tenen una vida basada en el pur patiment o sinó una vida avorrida on tot ho tenen fàcil i que no els hi aporta res per molt que ho tinguin tot a l'abast.

En el meu cas, la vida, l'existéncia, em meravella desde petit, gaudeixo molt (o més ben aviat gaudía fa bastants anys quan tenía algún estona per mi) de tot el que m'envolta (la llum i els colors sobretot).

A mi no em sabría greu portar algú a aquest món per tal d'ensenyar-li totes les meravelles que hi ha, el problema és la por que jo tindría de que fos una persona que no suportés la seva própia existéncia, com et passa a tú mateix Funeral.. això em posaría molt trist perquè em sentiría responsable encara que realment no ho fos pas (això ho hauría d'explicar bé).

Saps, fins i tot en un lloc com SaSu tinc por d'expresar-me amb honestadat i sinceritat, penso que em podría posar en molts problemes als quals no hi puc fer front de cap de les maneres...

En el meu día a día tinc dues línees barrejades en la manera de concebre la meva vida o existència, una basada en el lliure albir en la qual sóc responsable de tot i una altre basada en el determinisme en el qual només sóc un espectador dels aconteixements que van succeïnt a la meva vida.

Desde el punt de vista del lliure albir:
Jo sóc responsable del meu naixement perquè tenía una forta voluntat de viure i no hagués estat possible néixer sense la meva tossudería per sortir al món.. tinc memòria des de els dos anys i és exactament el que recordo, que tot i la por que patía degut a tot el meu entorn social, tenía una forta voluntat de voler seguir endavant, més de la que he pogut tornar a sentir mai (i tinc 45 anys)... i crec que debía ser molt més forta el día que vaig néixer, no en tinc pas cap dubte.. però per alguna raó aquesta força es va esfumar als 6-7 anys, estava ja molt cremat de rebre indiferència per part dels altres i em vaig tancar en mi mateix.. i així segueixo, tot i que un xic més obert cap a tothom actualment (l'edat et dona un tipus de força diferent de la que tens quan ets jove, et dona més seguretat, control i seny).

La meva mare va tenir dos avortaments naturals, eren fills sans però per algún motiu no van arribar a nèixer.. en teoría jo tampoc hauría d'haver nascut, però com dic recordo la meva voluntat de viure quan tenía 2 anys, així que ho torno a dir, a mi ningú em va obligar a néixer, vaig voler néixer, vaig triar néixer, era la meva voluntat viure.. per poc que hagués minvat aquesta forta voluntat que tenía no hagués nascut pas.

Desde el punt de vista determinista:
Potser un altre día t'ho explicaré, no estic preparat. Ho sento. Estic fet un bon poruc!

 

[Wernove]

I personally don't, even if life is no picnic, and it gave me lots of disorders (NPD, BPD, HPD), i'm gratefull for becoming myself, of whom I'm proud. And I have met tons of torrific people, I have read books that truly amazed me, listened to perfect music, all of those things remind me that It's important to keep going through life, because I still have a lot to experience and discover, and I don't want to let down the people I love

 

[bigdog]

Looking at the way life goes on I would definitely tell that I won't loose anything being non existent

 

[resolutory]

Absolutely!

 

[AllMyDreams]

I'm very grateful that I was put on this earth. It's a lot more interesting than having your soul stuck somewhere deep in the universe with nothing to do. Even when I wish I'm dead I never wish that I wasn't born.

 

[Viranamari]

I agree with you. After all, it is much easier to simply never exist than willingly cease existence. Of course, there are others out there who disagree since their experience in life was good but they can't speak for everyone. I'd much rather not be bornt than a desire to CTB. To me, life is just a boring repetitive cycle. The only different thing would be my mood. And neither hypomania nor depression is favourable to me. Simply not existing is a desirable yet unachievable outcome.

 

[Darkover]

this place is shit so it always better to never exist at all

 

[Fl4u]

I find it so hard to comprehend non-existence though. I think about it a lot. We won't know we are not existing, so we won't know we succeeded.
I know we shouldn't fear non-existence, but I can't help but fear the unknown.