Do those who are Spiritual here...

[Richard Langford]

Do those Spiritual (or Religious) people out there - and if you're not there's very little point responding - sometimes contemplate that ctb will stop any possibility of 'going to heaven' in a Christian or indeed any religious sense? It's something I think about a bit, and others have mentioned it to me as well so I'm not alone here. How do you rationalise it?

 

[hencjjsjahhaj]

I'll give you the Hindu perspective.

It doesn't, soul becomes a ghost until the time of their natural death is arrives, then he is judged and sent yo next life. Can be anything, heaven maybe, or hell, it depends on how you lived your life throughput.

Their is angels who handle these all, they don't know if you ctb, so they come when they know you'll die naturally, which is predestined. Also, there's two heavens, a permanent and a temporary, you go to temporary one if you were good but not a devotee of God, when you become a devotee, you go to the permanent heaven where God himself resides, in the other one his angels.
There's Christian ghosts too, so I don't think it'll be any different there, about heaven, I think no God in this world would check anyone's chancing of getting heaven, he may punish you before, but no permanency. So maybe I think you become a ghost, then go to be judged when Christ reigns on this earth or maybe the Hindu angels, idk, and then you're punished accordingly how you lived throughout your life.

 

[Abandoned Character]

I consider myself a spiritual person, and yet I don't believe there is any difference between killing yourself or instead choosing to take life as far as it allows you to go.

 

[SVEN]

I guess if you're a Christian you look at suicides in the Bible and they give you hope. I'm thinking of Samson mainly, who was granted a return of his great strength to allow himself to kill himself and more Philistines in death than he had managed in life; yet he appears in the book of Hebrews in that "Hall of Heroes" of the faith, chapter 11.
Saul also, I believe, instructed his servant to kill him.
Though I'm no theologue.

 

[whaleandwasp]

Do those Spiritual (or Religious) people out there - and if you're not there's very little point responding - sometimes contemplate that ctb will stop any possibility of 'going to heaven' in a Christian or indeed any religious sense? It's something I think about a bit, and others have mentioned it to me as well so I'm not alone here. How do you rationalise it?

Absolutely. I think anyone exposed to that line of thinking has considered it. And it has kept many from ctb who otherwise would have. Others don't buy into that line of thinking, or don't believe in an afterlife in that sense, or at all, and ctb anyway. Has it affected me and delayed me? Yes, when I was younger. Now, it's not really a deterrent at all because I don't believe there is any logical scripture to support that nor do I believe a loving god would do that. I am spiritual but don't subscribe to the crazy evangelical / white Christian nationalist bullshit. For one, I'm bisexual, but mostly gay, and don't believe that would affect where I end up in the afterlife either. Just like my desire to ctb, I cannot hep it or alter my sexuality at will. It's just part of who I am now. Could my desire to ctb or sexuality change in the future? I can't say. We all change as we grow and also some of us get more set in our ways as we grow. I just know that right now, this is who I am and neither being gay or wanting to ctb are a "defect" in me as a human or something to be "punished" by a god who loves me. I was born different and grew up to be different than a lot of my peers. Could I be wrong? Of course. Perhaps there is a god and they are vengeful and cruelly predispose people to suffering and not going to heaven. If that's true, I have no control over the matter. But also, where would that god draw the line on what ctb really is? Is refusing cancer treatment because you prefer quality over quantity and choosing to go to hospice and not fight a form of ctb? Abusing drugs or being an alcoholic has been said to be a slow form of ctb. Is eating poorly and being sedentary and shortening your life a form of ctb? A lot of people give up when they lose hope. If you're at the end of a protracted illness and refuse a feeding tube or decide to withdrawal care and pass peacefully, is that ctb? So in short, no, I just can't rationalize to myself that ctb would keep me from experiencing any form of a positive afterlife if there is one.

But if you are spiritual or religious, this is something you have to rationalize and decide for yourself. I'm just giving my opinion on it, and maybe I'm right, maybe I'm not. Would like to hear how others feel about it though.

 

[Lost Magic]

There is no Bible verse that says if you kill yourself you go to hell. There are Bible verses that say to respect and not harm life or your body. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 - Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
Psalm 34:18-19 - The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. The righteous person may have many troubles, but the Lord delivers him from them all.
I, personally, don't believe that suicides go to some bad place or have to be punished. This earth is punishment enough! But, it's all up for interpretation.

 

[Darkover]

all we need are more lies about our world that never was and never will be

 

[Richard Langford]

9

all we need are more lies about our world that never was and never will be

I did ask if you weren't Spiritual/Religious to not respond in so many words. I would reiterate that. I'm only interested in Spiritual/Religious people in terms of how they address this. Please.

 

[Darkover]

I did ask if you weren't Spiritual/Religious to not respond in so many words. I would reiterate that. I'm only interested in Spiritual/Religious people in terms of how they address this. Please.

i am spiritual since i believe in the prospect for a potential afterlife
i just don't believe in anything the mainstream religions have to say


I think the fact that we're even here in the first place existing as something alongside everything around us is such an insane fact that we witness everyday but never truly comprehend it. There is something rather than nothing basically.
Also, the fact that laws (immaterial forces that predetermine how something will interact with the universe around it) exist is insane. The fact that there are, in lack of better terms since relatively is a thing, constants in the universe that we can observe is beyond wild.
Here is what I think: This doesn't seem to be a common view but if we know it for a fact that you started to exist for some reason at the point of your birth (your consciousness, your self did), before which you didn't exist, then would it not be logical to assume that after you cease to exist (after death), out of that non-existence you will emerge again in another body? I am not talking at all about reincarnation, consciousness probably dies after death, but if the only real thing we can know for sure about consciousness is that it (seemingly) randomly appears out of non-existence, why wouldn't the same happen after you die?

 

[Richard Langford]

i am spiritual since i believe in the prospect for a potential afterlife
i just don't believe in anything the mainstream religions have to say


I think the fact that we're even here in the first place existing as something alongside everything around us is such an insane fact that we witness everyday but never truly comprehend it. There is something rather than nothing basically.
Also, the fact that laws (immaterial forces that predetermine how something will interact with the universe around it) exist is insane. The fact that there are, in lack of better terms since relatively is a thing, constants in the universe that we can observe is beyond wild.
Here is what I think: This doesn't seem to be a common view but if we know it for a fact that you started to exist for some reason at the point of your birth (your consciousness, your self did), before which you didn't exist, then would it not be logical to assume that after you cease to exist (after death), out of that non-existence you will emerge again in another body? I am not talking at all about reincarnation, consciousness probably dies after death, but if the only real thing we can know for sure about consciousness is that it (seemingly) randomly appears out of non-existence, why wouldn't the same happen after you die?

Because if there's some other power organising or controlling matters they might not be enamoured if we ctb? I've also had a couple of occurances (for want of a better word) of late that makes me strongly feel there's more going on than we appreciate or understand after death and there is some controlling force.

 

[Darkover]

Because if there's some other power organising or controlling matters they might not be enamoured if we ctb? I've also had a couple of occurances (for want of a better word) of late that makes me strongly feel there's more going on than we appreciate or understand after death and there is some controllibg force.

The idea that life is continuously destroyed and created could suggest cycles of renewal and endings, yet we're left uncertain about whether these cycles are finite or if they stretch across multiple lives. The uncertainty of whether life is a one-time event or part of something bigger is one of those fundamental questions that so many struggle with.

If life is only a one-time deal, it can make everything feel fleeting, almost like we're grasping at something intangible. But if there's something more—whether through reincarnation, a spiritual continuation, or a different form of existence—it can offer a different perspective on how we approach meaning and purpose.

 

[Richard Langford]

The idea that life is continuously destroyed and created could suggest cycles of renewal and endings, yet we're left uncertain about whether these cycles are finite or if they stretch across multiple lives. The uncertainty of whether life is a one-time event or part of something bigger is one of those fundamental questions that so many struggle with.

If life is only a one-time deal, it can make everything feel fleeting, almost like we're grasping at something intangible. But if there's something more—whether through reincarnation, a spiritual continuation, or a different form of existence—it can offer a different perspective on how we approach meaning and purpose.

Ok. But do you think ctb might prevent any progression spiritually after death? Do you think there might be consequences?

 

[Darkover]

Ok. But do you think ctb might prevent any progression spiritually after death? Do you think there might be consequences?

only effect i can think of is that by the random chance at birth you get, you could get a better or worse life depending on when you ctb

The universe, as we experience it, often seems indifferent or even harsh—creating life, only to expose it to suffering and limitations. It can feel like we're trapped in a system that doesn't care for us, where injury, pain, and struggles are a constant part of the machinery.

Given that, it makes sense that the idea of taking a chance on life here, knowing how fragile and unforgiving it can be, feels like a gamble that doesn't seem worth it. The sense of being "enslaved" by the inherent risks of existence, coupled with an absence of real care from the world around us, can make the idea of anything beyond this life seem distant or unappealing.

 

[Richard Langford]

So you think if you ctb you might actually go round again but in a potentially worse life?

 

[SVEN]

Do those Spiritual (or Religious) people out there - and if you're not there's very little point responding - sometimes contemplate that ctb will stop any possibility of 'going to heaven' in a Christian or indeed any religious sense? It's something I think about a bit, and others have mentioned it to me as well so I'm not alone here. How do you rationalise it?

I'm not sure that I could "rationalise" what is, essentially, my own belief system. Primarily because I believe that what, if anything, comes next is not based on any rational extrapolation of demonstratable facts. All spiritual systems seem to me to be speculative hypotheses which call for faith of some sort in the unknown.
So, I tend to try to hope for the best, working on the basis that if we, flawed as we are, can understand the hopelessness and despair which leads us to seek to jump into the unknown rather than endure life as we know it, then any Creator or life force is even better placed to empathise with our plight.

 

[Richard Langford]

I'm not sure that I could "rationalise" what is, essentially, my own belief system. Primarily because I believe that what, if anything, comes next is not based on any rational extrapolation of demonstratable facts. All spiritual systems seem to me to be speculative hypotheses which call for faith of some sort in the unknown.
So, I tend to try to hope for the best, working on the basis that if we, flawed as we are, can understand the hopelessness and despair which leads us to seek to jump into the unknown rather than endure life as we know it, then any Creator or life force is even better placed to empathise with our plight.

Hmmm. The problem I'm addressing is I 'have' had a couple of recent occurances (for want of a better word) that indicate there's certainly something going on in terms of a controlling force and Life after death. These occurances were quite pointed and couldn't be put down to Frequency Illusion Syndrome realistically - I'm not seeing number patterns or suchlike. Nothing so simple.
Something far more obvious. Indeed extremely so. Certainly in terms of the latter it was if someone departed could sense I was suffering and in a quandary and was pointedly reaching out to help. Hence my concern. Oh, I feel completely in control of my facilities MH wise for the record so its not that.

 

[SVEN]

Hmmm. The problem I'm addressing is I 'have' had a couple of recent occurances (for want of a better word) that indicate there's certainly something going on in terms of a controlling force and Life after death. These occurances were quite pointed and couldn't be put down to Frequency Illusion Syndrome realistically - I'm not seeing number patterns or suchlike. Nothing so simple.
Something far more obvious. Indeed extremely so. Certainly in terms of the latter it was if someone departed could sense I was suffering and in a quandary and was pointedly reaching out to help. Hence my concern. Oh, I feel completely in control of my facilities MH wise for the record so its not that.

And this, I guess, is part of the challenge when it comes to things spiritual. Many of us experience, or have experienced, occurences which defy natural or rational explanation. The interpretation of the cause remains however, for me at least, a matter of personal belief. I fear that at the end of the day we must needs just try for our own best understanding of what will remain unknown until we get there.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'm on the fence but leaning towards atheism. I have family members who believe suicides go to hell or pugatory at least- for context. So naturally, the first time I had suicidal thoughts, age 10, they frightened me.

All I feel able to reason with is the religious texts we have and observing the world around us- how things were created. The intention behind them. I'm sad to say that the God I perceive in a lot of religious texts and the creator of this world is absolutely capable of punishing people for the most minor indiscretion or, totally randomly.

I find very little comfort in how I think people would like their creator to be or the stories we read to learn about them. I can only go on what I see. I don't think the creator of this earth is by any moral means that we strive to stand by- fair, compassionate, loving or forgiving. I'm sorry to say that I predominantly see a narcissistic sadist (in human terms) in much of what I've seen or heard about.

So, it's maybe more of a coin toss whether a person has sucked up to them to be considered worthy. I wonder if 'goodness' even comes into it if you can repent (or maybe even just pretend to repent) for truly heinous acts and be forgiven.

I suppose I try to comfort myself that I've generally prefered the company of atheists in life, so if/ when I no doubt get sent to hell- if there is one, at least I'll be with people I like.

I feel like my fate is already sealed. I don't like God- I think that's enough to condemn me even before I suicide! Ironically though, I suspect I've lived a much less problematic life in terms of religious rule breaking to others in other ways.

Sadly, if there is a God, I simply can't get my head around them being good though. Maybe it's my wishful thinking that hopes and (ironically) prays there isn't one- because of that.

Sorry- probably not what you wanted to hear. I expect you were hoping for reassurance you would get to heaven. If we go along with specific texts like The Bible, maybe you'll be fine. I don't think it's expressly forbidden there. It's interpretations that have included it in with murder I believe. Other texts are more clear though- I think.

Hopefully, you picked the right God. I imagine it's a problem for the unfortunate souls who happened to be born in a country that indoctrinated them in the 'wrong' religion. Think on that though too- if you can be punished for worshipping a 'false' God, why does the 'real' God allow other religions? I believe a lot of religions do include this idea of 'false Gods' and getting into trouble if you pick them.

It's not as simple as making the 'right' choice. Surely, if you were born in a predominently Muslim country for instance and, your parents were Muslim and raised you to be- you would be too? If their God turns out to be fake, why would a 'good' God allow someone to be forced on the 'wrong' tac from birth? Or- vice versa. Maybe they've got it right and you've been worshipping the wrong one. Who knows but it's another example of riddiculous unfairness- if it's true. It's like being condemned at birth. Setting someone up to fail. What kind of Head Master gets their teachers to teach the students the alphabet and then sets an exam on algebra?

But essentially, what is failure to God? When we didn't live up to what they made us capable of? Surely, some of us aren't capable of coping with extreme pain though? Why were we given the capability to fail though? Unless God wanted the opportunity to be able to punish us? Or, is it ok if we fail but beg for forgiveness? I think that's supposed to be the issue with suicide. You can't be truly sorry for something beforehand if you still go ahead with it. And you can't be sorry afterwards if you're dead. Maybe a spirit can beg for forgiveness.

There again, maybe the truth is nothing like any of us can imagine. If God truly knows us. If a part of them lives within us even. If they experience life through us too- maybe they'll be understanding. That feels like the rosey eyed version to me but, who knows? I suppose there have been extreme examples of forgiveness in religious stories.

Why are we so sure God is infallible though? Surely, some of their designs are perplexing to say the least. How are we so sure they're not fickle too? Maybe it's just wishful thinking that a God should be fair, good, consistent.

 

[alienfreak]

My spiritual feelings are that this world is somehow twisted and wrong. I feel it would be courageous and correct for me to have faith in this feeling and to act in alignment with my intuitions by rejecting it in such a powerful way as suicide.

 

[dontwakemeup]

I was taught as a Christian, those who committed suicide will go to hell. I've had a few attempts and before I say a prayer and tell God I'm sorry, I've endured enough and hope he can forgive me.

I want to believe my attempts weren't successful because he has bigger and better plans for me. I don't see any hope in that. I just remind myself everyday is 1 less day to be here on earth.

So yes, I believe in heaven and hell.

 

[Richard Langford]

Hmm

I was taught as a Christian, those who committed suicide will go to hell. I've had a few attempts and before I say a prayer and tell God I'm sorry, I've endured enough and hope he can forgive me.

I want to believe my attempts weren't successful because he has bigger and better plans for me. I don't see any hope in that. I just remind myself everyday is 1 less day to be here on earth.

So yes, I believe in heaven and hell.

But you're still here (on this website) endeavouring?

 

[dontwakemeup]

Hmm
But you're still here (on this website) endeavouring?

I'm still suicidal. Being a Christian doesn't mean my life is perfect, I have a lot of problems to.

 

[Richard Langford]

As an aside, I've approached several Christian religious bodies local to me in what I described as "Could I pop in for a quick chat to ask for your advice on something?" email. It wasn't 'this' issue but it very well might have been.

The CofE Vicar said there were Safeguarding issues and she could only really discuss things in the church directly after Service (with others around ). The Salvation Army replied to my email and I detailed what I wanted to talk about. I've not heard back. Same can be said re a Hsptl Relgious Team who are supposed to help but haven't got replied to my email either.

You'd think it would be easy to get a religious opinion on something from a professional. Seemingly not. Bit dissapointing really. Are they that busy?

 

[divinemistress36]

Hello, I'm somewhat spiritual not religious. I think I might believe in the concept that our soul came here to learn for whatever reason that my human brain/ego cant fathom and when we die we go back to wherever we came from in energy form. Ctb is just checking out early from your possible soul plan or maybe its in ones soul plan? Either way I dont for one minute believe there is any kind of punishment for ctb, one cant help being mentally ill/and or in to much pain to live. If reincarnation is real then its our souls choice to come back. I know this sounds weird to people but Ive had readings from the other side that have been on point. I was told my lesson here on Earth was to learn bravery

 

[Richard Langford]

Hello, I'm somewhat spiritual not religious. I think I might believe in the concept that our soul came here to learn for whatever reason that my human brain/ego cant fathom and when we die we go back to wherever we came from in energy form. Ctb is just checking out early from your possible soul plan or maybe its in ones soul plan? Either way I dont for one minute believe there is any kind of punishment for ctb, one cant help being mentally ill/and or in to much pain to live. If reincarnation is real then its our souls choice to come back. I know this sounds weird to people but Ive had readings from the other side that have been on point. I was told my lesson here on Earth was to learn bravery

It doesn't sound wierd at all. I've had 3 experiences myself. One years ago and two in the past week to make firmly believe there's more going on than we comprehend. The way people dismiss suchlike as nonsensical I find ridiculous.

 

[divinemistress36]

It doesn't sound wierd at all. I've had 3 experiences myself. One years ago and two in the past week to make firmly believe there's more going on than we comprehend. The way people dismiss suchlike as nonsensical I find ridiculous.

Some people are science and logic base in their beliefs. Science has failed me. I want to fire my spirit guides

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

Do those Spiritual (or Religious) people out there - and if you're not there's very little point responding - sometimes contemplate that ctb will stop any possibility of 'going to heaven' in a Christian or indeed any religious sense? It's something I think about a bit, and others have mentioned it to me as well so I'm not alone here. How do you rationalise it?

When I was 22, I experienced a psychotic episode. It also included a sort of 'spiritual enlightenment'. I'm 100% sure I won't be 'punished' if I were to ctb by own doing. Heaven and Hell are concept invented by religions to keep people in line. Did you know at one point in time (11th century) one could give the Church money to be absolved of sins? As if a god would even care about an earthly thing as money! That is religion. My beliefs are spiritual. L'enfer, c'est les autres.

 

[CacklingZombie]

In all my years of living, I have learned a universal and unassailable truth. Fuck Jesus Christ. He's a narcissistic asshole if he exists. And if he exists, it's only to dunk on the buttholes of human souls for eternity. Quite unfortunate one would use their power in that way, buuuuut…guess that's our creator, for ya.

 

[Richard Langford]

In all my years of living, I have learned a universal and unassailable truth. Fuck Jesus Christ. He's a narcissistic asshole if he exists. And if he exists, it's only to dunk on the buttholes of human souls for eternity. Quite unfortunate one would use their power in that way, buuuuut…guess that's our creator, for ya.

Once again, I asked for a Spiritual/Religious reflection on an issue. Not for general anti-Christian venting. If you want to vent re suchlike set up your own thread. PLEASE.

 

[CacklingZombie]

Do those Spiritual (or Religious) people out there - and if you're not there's very little point responding - sometimes contemplate that ctb will stop any possibility of 'going to heaven' in a Christian or indeed any religious sense?

That WAS my spiritual reflection regarding the possibility of a Christian heaven. Where did I say I wasn't spiritual? I said fuck Jesus Christ.