Do people like Stephen Hawking make you feel weak and guilty?

[Final_frontier]

The guy was confined to a wheelchair at age 21 after being diagnosed with ALS, couldnt move most of his muscles and still chose to fight with his mind all his life, contributing so much to physics and to humanity until he died naturally from his disease at an older age. Did he not suffer depression despite his depressing hopeless state? Was he ever suicidal? We may never know but he never expressed that desire or said he wanted to get euthanised.
Now i know mental illness is different from physical illness, suffering from mental illness myself for a long time and that dealing with this emotional pain on a daily basis can really over time destroy your coping mechanisms until you cant cope no more. But with the examples of people like Hawking, is it more courageosus and honourable to fight your demons all your life than to take the "easy", " cowards" way out.
Sorry for my English, im not native.

 

[Bathsheba]

The guy was confined to a wheelchair at age 21 after being diagnosed with ALS, couldnt move most of his muscles and still chose to fight with his mind all his life, contributing so much to physics and to humanity until he died naturally from his disease at an older age. Did he not suffer depression despite his depressing hopeless state? Was he ever suicidal? We may never know but he never expressed that desire or said he wanted to get euthanised.
Now i know mental illness is different from physical illness, suffering from mental illness myself for a long time and that dealing with this emotional pain on a daily basis can really over time destroy your coping mechanisms until you cant cope no more. But with the examples of people like Hawking, is it more courageosus and honourable to fight your demons all your life than to take the "easy", " cowards" way out.
Sorry for my English, im not native.

I get you.. yes I feel weak and guilty all the time.. then it becomes a vicious cycle. The guilt of knowing I'm physically healthy and lucky to be so, yet wanting to die makes me feel more of a shit pointless person, then that all adds even more for wanting to end my life.

 

[Astral316]

Stephen Hawking had a passion... a purpose...

I can't speak for you but I have neither of these things. I'm good at nothing and I'm tired of interacting with people.

If you're suffering and have nothing to contribute you don't get a prize for enduring til the end. Double that sentiment if you're a welfare sponge like me.

 

[BipolarExpat]

Yes, of course they make me feel weaker.
Hawking, that ted talk speaker w/ no limbs and others who chose the inspirational path while being disfigured, blind, deaf, etc.

Basically pick your disability and chances are you can find someone (or many) standing tall and living a life (or a strong appearance of one) in strict defiance of it.

With that said, once you start comparing yourself to others...it could continue infinitely. It's a slippery slope.

Alternatively, there are others (many, many others) who've offed themselves for much lesser reasons than your own, to be sure.

 

[oopswronglife]

No. Never compare your worth or strength to someone else because we don't all have the same internal or external conditions. We don't all have the same security and options. It's no competition.

 

[Shamana]

Stephen Hawking was a genius though who had a purpose in his life. But hats off. it does make me feel guilty. Depression is a complex beast though. Lot's good people get it and it's difficult to get rid when it's chronic

 

[Lookingforabus]

Absolutely not.

For one thing, he had very little choice. Even if he wanted out (which he may well have), he quickly ended up in a position where he couldn't CtB, because he was physically unable. This is the exact reason a lot of older people have N and nitrogen kits and memberships to right-to-die groups - in case they start getting to that point.

If he didn't want out, he had a strong will to live, which isn't exactly something you can work on. You've got it, or you don't. No one chooses to want to die or chooses to want to live on no matter how hard life gets.

Just like Hawking had a disease (ALS), mental illnesses are diseases. ALS ravages the body, mental illness ravages the mind and the desire to live.

 

[Final_frontier]

Absolutely not.

For one thing, he had very little choice. Even if he wanted out (which he may well have), he quickly ended up in a position where he couldn't CtB, because he was physically unable. This is the exact reason a lot of older people have N and nitrogen kits and memberships to right-to-die groups - in case they start getting to that point.

If he didn't want out, he had a strong will to live, which isn't exactly something you can work on. You've got it, or you don't. No one chooses to want to die or chooses to want to live on no matter how hard life gets.

Just like Hawking had a disease (ALS), mental illnesses are diseases. ALS ravages the body, mental illness ravages the mind and the desire to live.

He could've requested for euthanssia/assisted suicide. He had a lot of support and care.
Also, If people can understand paralysis, why cant they understand depression? You don't ask someone who's paralysed from the waist down to "get up and walk" unless you're Jesus(lol) but people say such stuff to depressed people and also they seem perplexed when we say we can't.

 

[woxihuanni]

Nah, still had partners falling over him even when he was talking through a machine. The entire world respected and valued him. No chance of being kicked out on the street or starving, no chance of losing his job. That was one lucky bugger.

Let him try my shoes on for my minutes, he'd be out like a light.

 

[omoidarui]

The only reason we would feel weak and guilty is as a result of the toxic mindset instilled in us by society. "Weak, escapist, selfish" - these slurs the majority would blindly have us believe suicide is because of the impact it has on those we leave behind (so we're supposed to be burdened with the complete hassle of living for the sake of others. Who are the selfish ones again?).

We're all going to die one day in, assuming death of old age, an arguably worse state than we are now, so if you choose to hasten the inevitable fate then it should no more be sneered at than any other life decision you're entitled to make for yourself

 

[BipolarExpat]

The only reason we would feel weak and guilty is as a result of the toxic mindset instilled in us by society. "Weak, escapist, selfish" - these slurs the majority would blindly have us believe suicide is because of the impact it has on those we leave behind (so we're supposed to be burdened with the complete hassle of living for the sake of others. Who are the selfish ones again?).

We're all going to die one day in, assuming death of old age, an arguably worse state than we are now, so if you choose to hasten the inevitable fate then it should no more be sneered at than any other life decision you're entitled to make for yourself

^
So well put.

It's quite easy to forget that death is natural & the "norm's" overly-strong resistance of death only serves to create issues that ultimately define an unstable / non-enlightened society.

That resistance (based purely on fear and often narcissistic fear) is exactly what's responsible for the horrific and often grotesque aftermaths of undignified suicides happening on a daily basis.

And because the aforementioned...."instilled toxic mindset" is so hard to shake, the resulting amount of misery is untold.

 

[262653]

I think Stephen Hawking card is commonly played in a following way:
Hawking was a human. You are human too.
Hawking had ASL (maybe some kind degenerative disease, cant be arsed googling right now). You don't. (Presumably. Otherwise no point playing this card.)
Hawking achieved great academical success, or whatever he did. (I'm far -- very far -- from being well-versed in scientific field, or any field.) So far you didn't.

Is that supposed to put guilt/shame status effect at the target? Because there are a whole flock of undefined variables of which not all are identical.

Hawking and suchlike do affect me nevertheless. I've seen enough brilliant people to realize I'm not the one of them, and I am not willing to accept an unexceptional life.
This is a personal affront, Universe! But I'm not going that route again. People like him remind me that suicide may be a decent option for those with prohibitively high standards for a living.

 

[woxihuanni]

I think Stephen Hawking card is commonly played in a following way:
Hawking was a human. You are human too.
Hawking had ASL (maybe some kind degenerative disease, cant be arsed googling right now). You don't. (Presumably. Otherwise no point playing this card.)
Hawking achieved great academical success, or whatever he did. (I'm far -- very far -- from being well-versed in scientific field, or any field.) So far you didn't.

Is that supposed to put guilt/shame status effect at the target? Because there are a whole flock of undefined variables of which not all are identical.

Hawking and suchlike do affect me nevertheless. I've seen enough brilliant people to realize I'm not the one of them, and I am not willing to accept an unexceptional life.
This is a personal affront, Universe! But I'm not going that route again. People like him remind me that suicide may be a decent option for those with prohibitively high standards for a living.

Believe you me, even if you do brilliant stuff, most of the happiness in life is to be found in a lump in the bed.

 

[262653]

Believe you me, even if you do brilliant stuff, most of the happiness in life is to be found in a lump in the bed.

...in a lump in the bed? Is that some sort of an idiom? I'm not well-versed into English either. Are you talking about sex?

 

[woxihuanni]

...in a lump in the bed? Is that some sort of an idiom? I'm not well-versed into English either. Are you talking about sex?

Just the lump that is your partner's body sleeping there. Not directly sex, but yeah of course that too. :)

 

[262653]

Just the lump that is your partner's body sleeping there. Not directly sex, but yeah of course that too. :)

*Ah, you meant lump of flesh.

By "exceptional" I didn't mean happy, but rather, dangerous and maybe full of struggle, but also much more interesting and vivid... I do believe that non-living is still better off. Not sure about brilliant life vs. not-so-brilliant life.

 

[Jean Améry]

The man had an IQ and imagination mere mortals can only dream off which enabled him to live almost completely in his own mind and build a career even as a cripple. Somehow I think his life would have been quite different and much more miserable if he wasn't a certified genius who already made great strides in physics before he became seriously ill and paralysis began to set in. With mechanical aids he was able to communicate with others, which a lot of those in a similar conditions cannot do. His mind wandered the stars and he was one of the most respect scientists in history.

All due respect to professor Hawking (RIP) but I think there are a lot of people on this earth that are a lot worse off than he was (obviously I do not count myself among them as I'm not daft). The fact that he didn't actually request assisted suicide or express suicidal ideation would indicate his suffering problably wasn't at the extreme end of the scale although I do not intend to downplay the terrible disease he suffered from.

If this kind of motivational therapy gets the job done I don't think you had a serious problem to begin with: pull yourself up by your bootstraps bucko! Comparing suffering while you can't know what life is like for others is not a productive undertaking. Not untill suffering can ever be objectively and reliably measured.

 

[woxihuanni]

*Ah, you meant lump of flesh.

By "exceptional" I didn't mean happy, but rather, dangerous and maybe full of struggle, but also much more interesting and vivid... I do believe that non-living is still better off. Not sure about brilliant life vs. not-so-brilliant life.

I agree that non-living is better off.

 

[Lookingforabus]

He could've requested for euthanssia/assisted suicide. He had a lot of support and care.

He may have for all we know, or he may not have wanted to risk making someone guilty of assisted suicide, etc. (And of course, it's also possible he didn't want out, but there's no way to know, or even make an educated guess.) He was British, his wife died 13 years ago, paralyzed and his condition required constant care, so his options in the euthanasia/assisted suicide realm are way more restricted than most people's.

 

[Blackjack]

The guy was confined to a wheelchair at age 21 after being diagnosed with ALS, couldnt move most of his muscles and still chose to fight with his mind all his life, contributing so much to physics and to humanity until he died naturally from his disease at an older age. Did he not suffer depression despite his depressing hopeless state? Was he ever suicidal? We may never know but he never expressed that desire or said he wanted to get euthanised.
Now i know mental illness is different from physical illness, suffering from mental illness myself for a long time and that dealing with this emotional pain on a daily basis can really over time destroy your coping mechanisms until you cant cope no more. But with the examples of people like Hawking, is it more courageosus and honourable to fight your demons all your life than to take the "easy", " cowards" way out.
Sorry for my English, im not native.

I have ALS and Hawking is/was a brilliant anomaly.

 

[Sammybackflip]

The guy was confined to a wheelchair at age 21 after being diagnosed with ALS, couldnt move most of his muscles and still chose to fight with his mind all his life, contributing so much to physics and to humanity until he died naturally from his disease at an older age. Did he not suffer depression despite his depressing hopeless state? Was he ever suicidal? We may never know but he never expressed that desire or said he wanted to get euthanised.
Now i know mental illness is different from physical illness, suffering from mental illness myself for a long time and that dealing with this emotional pain on a daily basis can really over time destroy your coping mechanisms until you cant cope no more. But with the examples of people like Hawking, is it more courageosus and honourable to fight your demons all your life than to take the "easy", " cowards" way out.
Sorry for my English, im not native.

Perhaps the cowards way is not doing anything despite horrible conditions due to cowardly fear of death.

 

[Dawn0071111]

Its so true

He could've requested for euthanssia/assisted suicide. He had a lot of support and care.
Also, If people can understand paralysis, why cant they understand depression? You don't ask someone who's paralysed from the waist down to "get up and walk" unless you're Jesus(lol) but people say such stuff to depressed people and also they seem perplexed when we say we can't.

Its so true. A friend of mine INSISTS that we ALWAYS have a choice.... he says that when I say "can't" it really means "dont want to"... well, I dont want to either...lol. but Im not sure if I agree. That "cant" is "just the warped thinking of drpression talking"