Discussion Do opinions cause suicide?

[Ripmyveinsout]

Everyone has conflicting opinions even on a suicide forum.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words give me never-ending anxiety.

I see grieving loved ones beseeching others to leave solacing notes behind but don't consider some families deserve hate.
I see suicidal people looking for a single reason not die while those who've never been in their shoes say "things get better".
I see older people saying that young things don't have the right to suicide but they've been depressed since they were children.
I see people in partnerships say that nothing is wrong with waiting for love while they plan to hurt and betray their partner in death.
I see hurt people on here say they've been abused in mental hospitals but they would still call the police to try to save a loved one.
I see lonely people lash out at others for reaching out to them but congratulate romantic couples who've met on this suicide site.
I see emotionally aggressive people chide others for perceived predation but applaud stories of abusive spouses on the last straw.
I see beautiful souls calling others callous for only caring about appearances while vying for and ultimately dying for outer beauty.
I see women saying men have easier lives because they're not sex symbols while transwomen beg for attention from hetero men.
I see men vilify wanton women for not sharing their sexual freedom with 'nice' guys but their standards for women are disproportionate.

Men vs women, single vs committed, old vs young, introvert vs extrovert, aggressive vs meek, cis vs trans, ad nauseam.
Everyone feels like their world view makes sense but I get lost in the tangled webs of people perception of the world while trying to put my own in context.
I can't make sense of my own thoughts when everyone is thinking so loud.

Why can't we all agree on anything?
Why does it makes me want to die?

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Because we are flawed, animal, humans, full of contradiction, our strengths often the flipsides of our weaknesses.
We are all guilty and tragic and noble and dying slowly, desperately struggling to find reason, needing to not be lonely, but needing also to be independent.
Complex and contradictory, it's not surprising that if you look too closely into this darkness that you feel like it looks back at you.

 

[Shinbu]

To answer the title question in some cases yes.

 

[deadpixels]

Thank you for your words, they're beautiful, something to give me a little smile for today.

It makes me sad to see people fighting each other in this forum, we all, in a way or another, know the other side of life, the one not advertised, we know the depths of horror, the extremes of it all, be it the paralyzing monotony, be it the extent of explosive despair, be it something else.

We are supposed to understand that what we take for granted in our life may be something the other one is craving for while the things we wish may be something someone despises.

we are supposed to understand and care for each other, if WE don't, who will? I know this question is better left unanswered...

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

My observations and opinions in response to the text, not the title nor the final question, of the OP:

Unlike many forums, this one does not have significant moderator interaction to set and maintain the desired tone stated in the rules and FAQ.

All sorts of extraneous things slip in, from beliefs to agendas, and folks react, so there is a self-perpetuating cycle of toxicity and battles.

It's easy to blame and point out any perceived or actual faults of members, as well as to take on or reject and even fight against blame and perceptions, but there is no significant leadership from the top to redirect the focus and curtail anything that does harm and does not belong within the bounds of the forum's stated goals.

If the leadership wants an environment of peace, empathy, respectful discussion of suicide topics, and emotional and practical support for both suicide and suicidality, then it is their responsibility to get involved and act to make it happen. But they remain quiet and relatively invisible, and so we blame what it is that we can see and hear for the discord and disunity: one another.

Marquis stated why he started Sanctioned Suicide: he saw a need when another forum was being shut down, and he had the desire and the means to fulfill it. I don't know beyond that who wrote the Rules and FAQ, they are lovely, but they are neither exemplified nor enforced via consistent and involved efforts of leadership. Maybe the rules need to change to reflect the zeitgeist of the forum since they are a desirable but unfulfilled lure, which only adds to the sense of feeling offended and harmed by what actually occurs, in direct opposition to what the Rules and FAQ state should be the zeitgeist and should occur.

 

[deadpixels]

My observations and opinions in response to the text, not the title nor the final question, of the OP:

Unlike many forums, this one does not have significant moderator interaction to set and maintain the desired tone stated in the rules and FAQ.

All sorts of extraneous things slip in, from beliefs to agendas, and folks react, so there is a self-perpetuating cycle of toxicity and battles.

It's easy to blame and point out any perceived or actual faults of members, as well as to take on or reject and even fight against blame and perceptions, but there is no significant leadership from the top to redirect the focus and curtail anything that does harm and does not belong within the bounds of the forum's stated goals.

If the leadership wants an environment of peace, empathy, respectful discussion of suicide topics, and emotional and practical support for both suicide and suicidality, then it is their responsibility to get involved and act to make it happen. But they remain quiet and relatively invisible, and so we blame what it is that we can see and hear for the discord and disunity: one another.

Marquis stated why he started Sanctioned Suicide: he saw a need when another forum was being shut down, and he had the desire and the means to fulfill it. I don't know beyond that who wrote the Rules and FAQ, they are lovely, but they are neither exemplified nor enforced via consistent and involved efforts of leadership. Maybe the rules need to change to reflect the zeitgeist of the forum since they are a desirable but unfulfilled lure, which only adds to the sense of feeling offended and harmed by what actually occurs, in direct opposition to what the Rules and FAQ state should be the zeitgeist and should occur.

But isn't it dangerous to fiercely enforce the rules? I mean, suicidal people may feel rejected or it may strengthen some feelings of non-belonging and make someone even more miserable. And sometimes the line between a rightful and an abusive ban is blurry.

 

[Tintypographer]

So much! You are

Everyone has conflicting opinions even on a suicide forum.
Sticks and stones may break my bones but words give me never-ending anxiety.

I see grieving loved ones beseeching others to leave solacing notes behind but don't consider some families deserve hate.
I see suicidal people looking for a single reason not die while those who've never been in their shoes say "things get better".
I see older people saying that young things don't have the right to suicide but they've been depressed since they were children.
I see people in partnerships say that nothing is wrong with waiting for love while they plan to hurt and betray their partner in death.
I see hurt people on here say they've been abused in mental hospitals but they would still call the police to try to save a loved one.
I see lonely people lash out at others for reaching out to them but congratulate romantic couples who've met on this suicide site.
I see emotionally aggressive people chide others for perceived predation but applaud stories of abusive spouses on the last straw.
I see beautiful souls calling others callous for only caring about appearances while vying for and ultimately dying for outer beauty.
I see women saying men have easier lives because they're not sex symbols while transwomen beg for attention from hetero men.
I see men vilify wanton women for not sharing their sexual freedom with 'nice' guys but their standards for women are disproportionate.

Men vs women, single vs committed, old vs young, introvert vs extrovert, aggressive vs meek, cis vs trans, ad nauseam.
Everyone feels like their world view makes sense but I get lost in the tangled webs of people perception of the world while trying to put my own in context.
I can't make sense of my own thoughts when everyone is thinking so loud.

Why can't we all agree on anything?
Why does it makes me want to die?

Correct, we have so much polarization now and a lot of times I feel that the design of marketing or media in general is to drown out the sensible voices and ensure that both are loud enoufht to have maximum conflict.

I'm also amazed at the loss we have had of experts being allowed to be experts. A doctor, in whichever view they have of sanctioned suicide for any cause is villified by either sub group depending on whether or not that doctor supports their view. We don't disagree with the doctors opinion anymore, we tear down the expert. We don't hear a person's logic for their views, we attack the viewpoint as absolute bad or good and ignore the way a person has framed their view altogether.

And we shut down discourse at all times if we disagree.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

But isn't it dangerous to fiercely enforce the rules? I mean, suicidal people may feel rejected or it may strengthen some feelings of non-belonging and make someone even more miserable. And sometimes the line between a rightful and an abusive ban is blurry.

I think you misunderstood my meaning, so I'll clarify. I didn't mean banning or anything fierce. I meant engaging in threads, leading by example, stepping into a toxic conversation and redirecting it (which Hassuuuuuu occasionally does), being a part of the community. That doesn't necessarily mean Marquis should take part, but have more mods who agree with the Rules and FAQ and guide the community to remain in their spirit. Hassuuuuuu is the only mod I've noticed in the history of mods who most closely acts in that spirit, I've looked through a lot of old threads and there have been a few mods in my time here. It seems right now there are only two active mods, I can't say much about Meretlein as s/he hasn't interacted to the extent that Hassuuuuu has, at least not on threads that I read, I don't read them all.

Is it clearer now what I meant?

Edit: Btw, I don't mean rules as in the do's and don'ts, I mean the entire document, including the intro. That is what sets the spirit of the forum, but is not strongly reflected in what's actually happening in the forum.

 

[Soul]

I seem to miss a lot. Is this forum really such a seething cauldron of conflict, rivalry, agendas and self-ignorant fretfulness?

 

[deadpixels]

I think you misunderstood my meaning, so I'll clarify. I didn't mean banning or anything fierce. I meant engaging in threads, leading by example, stepping into a toxic conversation and redirecting it (which Hassuuuuuu occasionally does), being a part of the community. That doesn't necessarily mean Marquis should take part, but have more mods who agree with the Rules and FAQ and guide the community to remain in their spirit. Hassuuuuuu is the only mod I've noticed in the history of mods who most closely acts in that spirit, I've looked through a lot of old threads and there have been a few mods in my time here. It seems right now there are only two active mods, I can't say much about Meretlein as s/he hasn't interacted to the extent that Hassuuuuu has, at least not on threads that I read, I don't read them all.

Is it clearer now what I meant?

Edit: Btw, I don't mean rules as in the do's and don'ts, I mean the entire document, including the intro. That is what sets the spirit of the forum, but is not strongly reflected in what's actually happening in the forum.

Thank you for clarifying, I completely agree with you.

 

[Quarky00]

I seem to miss a lot. Is this forum really such a seething cauldron of conflict, rivalry, agendas and self-ignorant fretfulness?

I concur ....

• grieving loved ones beseeching others to leave solacing notes behind but don't consider some families deserve hate.
• suicidal people looking for a single reason not die while those who've never been in their shoes say "things get better".
• older people saying that young things don't have the right to suicide but they've been depressed since they were children.
• people in partnerships say that nothing is wrong with waiting for love while they plan to hurt and betray their partner in death.
• hurt people on here say they've been abused in mental hospitals but they would still call the police to try to save a loved one.
• lonely people lash out at others for reaching out to them but congratulate romantic couples who've met on this suicide site.
• emotionally aggressive people chide others for perceived predation but applaud stories of abusive spouses on the last straw.
• beautiful souls calling others callous for only caring about appearances while vying for and ultimately dying for outer beauty.
• women saying men have easier lives because they're not sex symbols while transwomen beg for attention from hetero men.
• men vilify wanton women for not sharing their sexual freedom with 'nice' guys but their standards for women are disproportionate.

I don't know what you are talking about. I recognized very few threads mentioned but don't consider them so polarizing, and most I've never noticed .

• Who was applauding stories of abuse?!
• Who was calling others callous for caring about appearances while dying for outer beauty? (I don't quite understand the phrasing to be honest)

I think one of the main concepts of this place is not to judge others. We do so of course, occasionally, but in a kind way if possible. There are people here who had confessed of being abusive in their past, now seeking to ctb, and they may get criticized, but they'll mostly get acceptance regarding their despair/choice. Also if someone is venting about women that is their prerogative and by doing so they do not judge other members here. That being a 'hurtful content', i.e. trigger for those who were abused or otherwise a toxic subject, is another issue. That for example was shut down by mods so I don't quite understand the problem or claims there's no order for example. Members are under severe distress, depression, and have traumas. Their view of society or others can be very bad.. hate even for those they believe hurt them... One was betrayed by women, the other by men. So all of that is expected. When things go of the rails mods intervene and their doing their job fine.

There are hundreds of posts per day -- so once a day, on a single thread, you might find 2 posts that seem out of balance. That's not "people not getting along".

I honestly don't see that level of discord or such deep animosity , that you feel



* I fully accept that you see it that way and I'm not saying there's no discord (harsh at times) but I ask how much is there ...

 

[TotallyIsolated]

We can't agree because we're all lying about *something* - either outwardly or to ourselves. Each of us has anxieties, beliefs, emotions, etc that make our own personal truth incompatible with the world as it truly is.

Some people have red lines they can't cross - beliefs they have chosen not to question, and that they cannot risk being challenged

some people have been abused, manipulated, or lied to and have to tie the truth in knots to make it fit in our heads.

We're all flawed, emotional beings. In my opinion the best we can do is to just try to be compassionate, and to forgive but don't forget!

 

[itsamadworld]

Because human nature sucks....we're a ball of hypocrisy and hatred and contradictions, and humans will never be satisfied even if they have it all....it's like water and a never ending thirst, like a human that wins the lottery and still ends up miserable and poor..and you and me, my friends, we are no exception to the rule...though there are ranges of contractions.... :)

Because human nature sucks....we're a ball of hypocrisy and hatred and contradictions, and humans will never be satisfied even if they have it all....it's like water and a never ending thirst...and you and me, my friends, we are no exception to the rule...though there are ranges of contractions.... :)

Until they invent a pill to cure the ills of human nature, I will stay childfree...

Because human nature sucks....we're a ball of hypocrisy and hatred and contradictions, and humans will never be satisfied even if they have it all....it's like water and a never ending thirst, like a human that wins the lottery and still ends up miserable and poor..and you and me, my friends, we are no exception to the rule...though there are ranges of contractions.... :)

Until they invent a pill to cure the ills of human nature, I will stay childfree...

I might want a more hospitable planet too...yeah...nature is a untamed beast...

 

[Moreofthesamepain]

Everyone judges everyone. Its part of the human condition. Even if we don't mean to, we still do it. People from other countries or regions condemn each other over politics. Politicians think they know what's right for everyone without even trying to understand a different set of circumstances. Religions conflict and want to kill each other over a different viewpoint. People are imperfect and we each have our own agendas and philosophies. We do not all agree. We don't even want to try it seems. Everyone gets hurts and hurts others. It's just the way life is....and its exhausting!!!! ❤

 

[enjolras]

I'm not on the forum described. Therefore, I'm almost apologising to not share the perspective.

Ultimately, why divergences, nuances, diversity should be attributed to a conflicting nature ? Are opinions meant to form a consensus ? A spectrum of ideas could overlap accidentally but first with the vocation to enrich.

Everyone feels like their world view makes sense but I get lost in the tangled webs of people perception of the world while trying to put my own in context.
I can't make sense of my own thoughts when everyone is thinking so loud.

Why can't we all agree on anything?
Why does it makes me want to die?

It inspires me this quote : "A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."
It looks to me your defenses are porous to the point of feeling an invasion. I'm saying it in a friendly way. Wish you could see more emulation instead of adversity. I'm sincerely sorry there's a kind of sensitivity putting you into despair.
I would like to comfort you so I'd comment that some people are less afraid to make mistakes. Looking like being assertive, does not equal necessarily being pretentious. If you're trying to build your own perception while feeling disturbed by the noise, maybe take more stances while staying open to adaptation, without the apprehension to be wrong. It's possible to be tolerant to errors. But it's easier to direct this acceptance towards yourself first. You could blame your indecision onto others, or you could use them as guidances to trial. People who feel themselves tossed about by currents, simply tend to cling to a rock. Don't be fooled into thinking they have chosen the right one. I'm only suggesting some use anchors to evolve. It's a possible technic to mimic if you don't know your final destination yet. You can assimilate people to pictures ...or movies.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Questioning your assumptions can be a destabilizing experience.

Opinions don't cause suicide in my opinion, it is what led you to those opinions or rationalizations that leads you to suicide. People generally overestimate the bearing rational thought has on our behaviour and underestimate drives. The default process for forming opinions and beliefs is not rational, but a mix of rationalizations of what we want to believe, what we were indoctrinated with, what it is convenient to believe, what beliefs are possible within the narrow confines of your language, your culture and the information that has been available to you/ what you have been exposed to.

I don't know whether your Hobbesian analysis of a war of all against all was meant to be read as an analysis of this forum or of the world in general? this forum is by and large very civilized in my humble opinion and – most of the time – people respect different perspectives and are tolerant and inclusive minded. Exceptions validate the rule – maybe you just happened to read the wrong threads?