Discussion Do animals live better lives than humans?

[CrazyDiamond04]

This is something I think about from time to time. On the face this might seem ridiculous but the more I think about it the more I feel it may hold some water. Animals don't have any sort of higher consciousness like humans. They aren't self aware of their suffering or existence upon this planet. They definitely experience suffering but I don't believe are cognizant of it to the same degree as humans. Animals don't question their existence on the planet; they simply follow their instincts and eventually die in some manner, much sooner than humans as well. Then again, they also don't have the ability to take part of the "higher" pleasures of the human experience. Though, they also likely don't care so I doubt that affects much.

 

[Cloud Busting]

The suffering humans experience is that we have the capacity to intellectualize and question our existence, which makes us cognizant of the futility of everything. We're just cells and matter and we create mass destruction and pain as a species. What's the point?

As long as an animal can act on its primal and survival instincts it's all good. If I could vibe as a cow chewin my cud I wouldn't wanna ctb

 

[CrazyDiamond04]

The suffering humans experience is that we have the capacity to intellectualize and question our existence, which makes us cognizant of the futility of everything. We're just cells and matter and we create mass destruction and pain as a species. What's the point?

As long as an animal can act on its primal and survival instincts it's all good. If I could vibe as a cow chewin my cud I wouldn't wanna ctb

I think so as well. Humans often mock animals but, ironically, maybe we're the ones who got the short end of the stick.

 

[Worndown]

The same can be said about many things. The unaware are spared the burden of knowledge. Human suffering seems to be one of our weakest areas.

 

[CrazyDiamond04]

The same can be said about many things. The unaware are spared the burden of knowledge. Human suffering seems to be one of our weakest areas.

Burden of knowledge is a nice term to define it. Very old idea too. Goes all the way back to the biblical times and likely even further in the past. The Bible actually acknowledges it in several ways which I find interesting.

 

[Peaceful Departure]

I think humans have the potential to live far better lives than animals, but also far worse. For myself, living in the west, severely abused by my family, living with ptsd, and having one individual ruin my adult life in ways i thought not possible. I think its safe to say i fit in the far worse bracket, as i assume nearly all of us in this site do.
However, i personally believe that certain hunter gatherer lifestyles, which are near extinct now, do give people the chance to live fantastic lives. A sense of community far beyond what i can imagine, a deep connection with nature that often transcends into the spiritual world, lots of exercise, eating what we're supposed to eat, etc. You can look into the Hadza tribe in Tanzania, or tribes throughout the Amazon. Those people love life!
We just happened to fuck it all up in the modern world through greed and power.

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

Schopenhauer wrote: "The animal lacks both anxiety and hope because its consciousness is restricted to what is clearly evident and thus to the present moment: the animal is the present incarnate."

That's one advantage other animals have over humans—they live in the present, while we torment ourselves thinking about the past and the future. They know death instinctively, and avoid it by nature, but don't contemplate their mortality like we do.

 

[CrazyDiamond04]

I think humans have the potential to live far better lives than animals, but also far worse. For myself, living in the west, severely abused by my family, living with ptsd, and having one individual ruin my adult life in ways i thought not possible. I think its safe to say i fit in the far worse bracket, as i assume nearly all of us in this site do.
However, i personally believe that certain hunter gatherer lifestyles, which are near extinct now, do give people the chance to live fantastic lives. A sense of community far beyond what i can imagine, a deep connection with nature that often transcends into the spiritual world, lots of exercise, eating what we're supposed to eat, etc. You can look into the Hadza tribe in Tanzania, or tribes throughout the Amazon. Those people love life!
We just happened to fuck it all up in the modern world through greed and power.

Hunter gatherers are intelligent as well. I don't really know if I believe the Hunter gatherer lifestyle is better than the modern ones; they both seem to suck. I guess my "ideal" human experience would be more like a lobotomy patient than a primitive human.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

We are victims of our own evolution and developments. We are not made to stare at screens and mobile phones 24/7, we are not made to sit in chairs almost 24/7, we are not made to live in concrete blocks (aka flats/buildings/sky scrapers) with no natural environment surrounding us, we have to eat unhealthy (fast) food most of the time and there are many more things. Our bodies didn't have time to adapt to those changes from an evolutionary point of view yet.

All what we really need is the same what animals an intact natural (and social) environment, food, water, sleep. Just our society and way of living forces us into a different way of life.

 

[CrazyDiamond04]

Schopenhauer wrote: "The animal lacks both anxiety and hope because its consciousness is restricted to what is clearly evident and thus to the present moment: the animal is the present incarnate."

That's one advantage other animals have over humans—they live in the present, while we torment ourselves thinking about the past and the future. They know death instinctively, and avoid it by nature, but don't contemplate their mortality like we do.

Yes, Schopenhauer wrote a lot concerning topics related to this. I think he summed it up quite nicely in this quote: "In early youth, as we contemplate our coming life, we are like children in a theatre before the curtain is raised, sitting there in high spirits and eagerly waiting for the play to begin. It is a blessing that we do not know what is really going to happen. Could we foresee it, there are times when children might seem like innocent prisoners, condemned, not to death, but to life, and as yet all unconscious of what their sentence means".

We are victims of our own evolution and developments. We are not made to stare at screens and mobile phones 24/7, we are not made to sit in chairs almost 24/7, we are not made to live in concrete blocks (aka flats/buildings/sky scrapers) with no natural environment surrounding us, we have to eat unhealthy (fast) food most of the time and there are many more things. Our bodies didn't have time to adapt to those changes from an evolutionary point of view yet.

All what we really need is the same what animals an intact natural (and social) environment, food, water, sleep. Just our society and way of living forces us into a different way of life.

we are not made to sit in chairs almost 24/7

My back definitely agrees with this haha.

 

[Cloud Busting]

I think so as well. Humans often mock animals but, ironically, maybe we're the ones who got the short end of the stick.

I always think back to Albert Camus and the absurd.

Animals do not have the capacity to question their motives like humans do. Survive and eat and fuck and you're good.

 

[CrazyDiamond04]

I always think back to Albert Camus and the absurd.

Animals do not have the capacity to question their motives like humans do. Survive and eat and fuck and you're good.

Haha, yes. The three/four pillars of life: shelter, water, food, and fucking. Doesn't get much simpler than that.

 

[Zaphkiel]

We fucked up the planet, they struggle and go extinct.
So i dont think so.

 

[Forever Sleep]

They might have a better time, if we didn't exist. I don't know if you watch nature documentaries but most of the recent ones have a large portion dedicated to how we have destroyed their environment, climate change has dramatically changed their living conditions- and they can't adapt quickly enough or- we've simply just slaughtered them. On average- the figure seems to be around 40% destruction. Sometimes, much more.

Of course- you could argue they aren't aware of this exactly. Still- it can't be nice to starve or have to travel many more miles to do the things you need to do to survive, or have fishing net or plastic or barbed wire twisted around your neck. They may not have the reasoning power to think about how unfair it all is but that doesn't stop them suffering. They still experience emotions and physical pain.

That said- yeah, you have to wonder if life would be simpler if we didn't have such a high degree of self awareness. Sentience in general is pretty cruel. I wonder if we would lose pleasure along with pain with less self awareness. Probably not. I think animals certainly enjoy certain things without annalysing everything so much.

 

[MyChoiceAlone]

i guess it depends on where you end up on the food chain.

 

[Wyldfyre4948]

It depends on the circumstances. Wild animals in captivity get depressed all the time. Some pets get abused by their owners. In the case of my cat that just was put to sleep, he lived an awesome life imo. He'd get scraps of meat I ate for dinner all the time. For instance I'd have Raising Canes chicken, and before I would eat a piece he'd get an offering. About half a tender would have the breading removed and the chicken torn up and put on a napkin right in front of him.

So domesticated animals can live great lives with the right people. At the same time they can have absolutely horrid lives. Considering they can't speak it's all just guesswork on if they're really living enjoyable lives.

 

[ae300]

I sat comfortably by our forest lake. A young group of fish on the edge of the bank. Dang, eaten by older bigger ! Dang, again! I saw so many death around in 5 minutes! Dogs barking at each other and wanting to tear each other apart, resentment over food. Crows peck at each other until they are dead. Same shit as humans do! Death is all around us! Its the most normal thing in nature.

So called humanity is hypocrisy! A cat or dog that has a cough for longer than usual is euthanized! It shouldn't suffer they say. But with your own race? Suffer as long as possible! Hypocrite!

 

[Parnate]

The animals that stay in wild which are prey for the carnivores have a bad death if they get eaten alive. The Apex predators have better lives i think

 

[FuneralCry]

Maybe it depends on the animal but overall I just don't believe that existence is desirable under any circumstances, existence is just a horrific mistake and futile loop of endless suffering and cruelty, so many animals especially those in the wild just exist to be eaten alive, it's just unnecessary torture.

 

[woh6]

I really agree with funeralcry and praestatmori. The life of some animals may be unpleasant but at least they aren't aware of it. Humans are and also have to live in a society that wasn't made for them.

 

[Nothere01]

Animals do have a consciousness, they have a soul/spirit and they suffer tremendously, they suffer a lot of injustices, evil abuse and death. I always ask people to be kind to them and to help them because they are very innocent and are like little children, they don't deserve to be abused or murdered. They deserve love, respect and to be treated with kindness. When all animals die they go to heaven because they are without sin.

 

[loopdaloop]

depends on the animal, but having a shorter life span would be nice - like a fly that dies after 24 hours, it probably suffers the least of all the creatures that exist in this world.

 

[sserafim]

I've also wondered this. Well, humans are the only species that have to pay to exist in this world, so I'd like to think that animals live better lives. Their existence costs nothing, they don't have to make money just to survive. They can just simply exist. I hate the fact that our existence costs money, and that we have to pay to live. This just seems so absurd to me.

I'd love to be a house cat with a nice owner….in fact, this was one of my dreams growing up. I've always wanted to be a cat. I guess I always thought that being an animal was preferable to being a human being, and that animals live better lives than us.

Yes, Schopenhauer wrote a lot concerning topics related to this. I think he summed it up quite nicely in this quote: "In early youth, as we contemplate our coming life, we are like children in a theatre before the curtain is raised, sitting there in high spirits and eagerly waiting for the play to begin. It is a blessing that we do not know what is really going to happen. Could we foresee it, there are times when children might seem like innocent prisoners, condemned, not to death, but to life, and as yet all unconscious of what their sentence means".


My back definitely agrees with this haha.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I've always thought it strange that people actually wanted to grow up, and looked forward to it. I remember when I was a kid, people asked me what I wanted to be and I honestly didn't want to be anything. I even never wanted to grow up in the first place, but sadly I did. I don't know why people look forward to becoming adults and to growing up, and why they see adulthood through such rose-tinted glasses. They think that adulthood would give them freedom, but this is not the case. You only get freedom to, not freedom from…being an adult just means being a slave to capitalism and having to work for a living. You're stuck in the capitalistic system with no escape. You have to work just to survive, and pay bills for things which I think should be human rights. People shouldn't have to pay for food, water, (electricity) and shelter, these should be human rights. I don't understand why people have to pay to exist and why existence costs money, it never made any sense to me.