Discussion Dismissive and intellectually dishonest statements by religious prolifers

[TAW122]

Disclaimer: I am not attacking people who are religious and respect whatever beliefs anyone may have about the religion of their choice. I am merely pointing out logical inconsistencies and exposing bad behaviors that are made by pro-lifers who wish to impose their will on others.

It has been a long time since I've discussed about annoying quotes and lines used by pro-lifers, especially the religious ones. However, these annoying quotes oftenly said by religious prolifers come to mind, especially "It's God's plan.", "Only God knows the answer.", "Don't question God's actions.", "God will take care of you.". These are oftenly said in times of uncertainty and/or used to dismiss, gaslight, cop-out (when there is no objective explanation), and to shut people up; whenever there is doubt or questioning of motives or actions.

In times where people have loved ones who have passed, and/or those who have suffered misfortunes or tragedies, I oftenly hear that they are in a better place. While I'm not personally offended, the intellectual dishonesty and incongruity from them annoys me. When brought up, it is oftenly met with hostility and even more intellectual dishonesty along with passive-aggressive behaviors.

One such video illustrating such incongruity is shown below:


Notice the incongruity in the video example, which is where no matter what the outcome of the event, God is always good, it was with his plan (if 'Steven' survived unscathed, survived crippled, or died). Of course, apologists will try to deflect and claim that it was mankind that was evil which caused the tragedies and all the unfortunate events to occur in humanity. Another similar tactic would be to gaslight to make the person question whether he/she is rational and that how God is above rationality, logic, completely dismissing and sticking it to the person (ad hominem) for doubting or questioning God.

So in short, this video highlights the problem with the claim that "God's plan is right" and when religious pro-lifers take an absolutist stance on it, it is problematic in the real world, natural world, and laws of logic. What are your thoughts on this?

Edit: Another video, showing how religious pro-lifers parse arguments and it's a more broad generalization of how religious people respond to claims doubting or refuting their logic.

5 Common Christian Reactions to Logic

 

[VIBRITANNIA]

i've always hated the "god's plan" excuse. i mean, surely there's a better plan than letting somebody die of something other than old age or disease? i feel like people just use "god's plan" as a reason because they can't fathom that there isn't any good reason for suffering.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

These types of statements usually come from a place of power, privilege, high self-esteem and sometimes ignorance.
They usually act as a mask to disguise a lack of empathy and understanding of what another might be going through.
It could also be a defense mechanism to protect an ego from having to contemplate the idea that life is meaningless and tragic.
It's easier to brush away the emotional and existential complexity of life with 'God's plan ain't it' than to try to imagine the world from another's perspective, more comforting to think 'God will take care of things' than to ponder the notion that there is no God and that no higher power will answer our prayers.

 

[Lorntroubles]

WWJD? Lol. I....just can't with some religious folk. Learn to start questioning things, ffs!

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

@thrw_a_way1221221, this made me think of you:



The people of Burma had wearied of a precarious state of passive apprehension where they were 'as water in the cupped hands' of the powers that be.

Emerald cool we may be
As water in cupped hands
But oh that we might be
As splinters of glass In cupped hands.

Glass splinters, the smallest with its sharp, glinting power to defend itself against hands that try to crush, could be seen as a vivid symbol of the spark of courage that is an essential attribute of those who would free themselves from the grip of oppression.

- Aung San Suu Kyi

 

[BitterlyAlive]

No worries about the post. I agree, I'm not offended, and I'm a Christian. People may mean well when they say things like this but it feels thoughtless and lazy to me. And it's totally dismissive, as you pointed out.

To me it seems like they're implying that everything is an issue with faith, and/or they're too lazy to actually help so they just resort to something superficial.

 

[puppy9]

Sorry if this is offtopic from your thread op.

I always hear and been the brunt of this saying; "God only helps those who help themselves."

God is taking credit of my hard work.

 

[esse_est_percipi]

God only helps those who help themselves."

Yes, another almost meanigless saying. So.many questions. What does 'helping yourself' actually mean? How much do.you need to 'help yourself' before god decides to step in? Surely being able to 'help yourself' depends on individual circumstances and context? It makes god seem like a petulant child and/or stubborn parent who refuses to take responsibility for his creation going wrong, and instead tries to.lay the blame on his creatures instead ('if you don't help yourself, youve only got yourself to blame' etc) This bromide doesnt stand up to scrutiny.

 

[TAW122]

These types of statements usually come from a place of power, privilege, high self-esteem and sometimes ignorance.
They usually act as a mask to disguise a lack of empathy and understanding of what another might be going through.
It could also be a defense mechanism to protect an ego from having to contemplate the idea that life is meaningless and tragic.
It's easier to brush away the emotional and existential complexity of life with 'God's plan ain't it' than to try to imagine the world from another's perspective, more comforting to think 'God will take care of things' than to ponder the notion that there is no God and that no higher power will answer our prayers.

Very true, and while uncommon, there are people who were once in dire circumstances and came out stronger then started to spew these things, acting holier than thou (sanctimonious, arrogant), while dismissing and putting down whatever concerns or grievances (including legit ones) that a person may have.

No worries about the post. I agree, I'm not offended, and I'm a Christian. People may mean well when they say things like this but it feels thoughtless and lazy to me. And it's totally dismissive, as you pointed out.

To me it seems like they're implying that everything is an issue with faith, and/or they're too lazy to actually help so they just resort to something superficial.

Indeed, I have met many people who were 'lazy' IRL so they resort to such superficial and stock answers that it is annoying.

 

[Dreamless Sleep]

Religion is full of hypocrisy and contradictions. It's why, imo, more scientific minds and critical thinkers tend to not be religious because they just cant go with the "blind faith" it takes to believe in god.

 

[TAW122]

Religion is full of hypocrisy and contradictions. It's why, imo, more scientific minds and critical thinkers tend to not be religious because they just cant go with the "blind faith" it takes to believe in god.

True, I consider myself to have a scientific, logical mind based on the way I think, process and parse things, make decisions, etc. I believe in things that I have evidence and have confidence in things that I have a reasonable expectation of happening (again, based on evidence). Lacking proper evidence in believing something to be true means that I don't believe it, but that doesn't imply that it is nonexistent, just that I have no sufficient evidence to believe it.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

WWJD? Lol. I....just can't with some religious folk. Learn to start questioning things, ffs!

I tend to go with WWGD?
(What would Gibbs do?)