Discussion Depression.

[Forever Sleep]

What are your views on the diagnosis of 'depression'? Have you been diagnosed with it? Did you agree with the diagnosis? Do you see it as an unwanted illness or, a rational response to your circumstances?

I feel like there must be different types and different severities. There are certainly things like bipolar which follow common patterns. But- general depession. Is it usually situational do you suppose? Does it start out that way at least? Something bad happens and we (naturally) feel upset about it. But- then what? We can't shake the feeling? What if the circumstances don't change though? Why is it then considered an 'illness'? Doesn't it stand to reason that if we have to continue to do things that make us unhappy, we'll continue to be unhappy?!! I guess the problem I have with it is the view that it's abnormal, or an overreaction.

I only went to the doctors once years ago and they diagnosed me with mild to moderate depression. Funnily enough, at the time, I was grateful. Like- ok- so- whatever this is, it's just some imbalance in my brain that these tablets will fix- which they didn't.

Is it though really? Is it truly a sign of a brain that isn't functioning normally anymore? Honestly- I don't know. I don't exactly think it's normal or natural to want to kill yourself. Still- why should it be 'normal' for our brains to enjoy living the kind of lives we have to live? Working all hours and not being paid enough. Probably hating the jobs we do. Having to pretend everything's ok to those around us and on social media. The world in general is so messed up. Why wouldn't we be worried and unhappy about it? What are your thoughts? Is the label of 'depression' sometimes a scam? A way to invalidate people who rightly don't enjoy their lives? A way to shame them by saying- 'You're the crazy one- it's not this world that's the problem.' More shocking I find is the quantity of people on antidepressants. Does that really mean that more people are mentally unbalanced these days or- does it mean that our lifestyles make us unhappy?

 

[WAITING TO DIE]

I was diagnosed with clinical depression from an early age, yet nowadays I'm more depressed due to the result of living in a dreadful world and all of the problems it brings.
I think depression is a logical response to living in a crazy world of suffering.

 

[SmollMushroom]

Honestly I can't really answer your questions. In my experience I think antidepressant are doing their job, but realistically I can't really tell because of the lack of opportunities in my life right now. But I can tell you that I feel more inclined at doing things rather than not, which is usually the case when I'm not taking meds.
Maybe if I started antidepressants when I were younger, things would be different today.
Also I don't think any person with a bit of intelligence would label anyone as crazy (or try to invalidate their opinions) because of their depression...
There are different states of depression. A person with major depression will be very unresponsive, quiet and closed in their own thoughts all the time. I met a majorly depressed person once and everyone around them could tell they weren't right, that they had a problem. It's not like the average state of depression that you can try and hide for a brief time.

 

[NumbItAll]

A psychiatric disorder is merely a collection of symptoms without a specific known cause. Therefore, to be diagnosed with one is basically saying that you are experiencing that cluster of symptoms, which should already be obvious. There are only a few actual known brain diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. Additionally, the chemical imbalance myth is a zombie lie that serves as effective marketing for drug companies as well as a source of false hope for wishful doctors and patients alike. It would be great if there was such a simple answer to a complex problem. Of course there are biological factors involved, but it's far too complicated and mysterious to be reduced to a single level of neurotransmitter in the brain. That is why it is always a crapshoot what effect antidepressants will have on a person, even though they supposedly target the problem.

To answer the question more philosophically, yes I think it is normal to feel like shit in this shit world.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

As was already said "depression" is a complex thing and it's a kind of shutting down when there's too much stress for example. It's a rational response of the brain to given circumstances, from an evolutionary point of view it's a kind of protection.

That is what I'm always saying if the triggers that cause a "depression" are not eliminated there is no real cure for it rather it may get even worse over time, often many years.

The brain is functioning but it protects the organism and from what society expects everyone to do it's not functioning, we are not robots (computers) that can everything all over again and again without needing a break.

 

[jar-baby]

Your last paragraph resonates with me. I often think about that too. The brains of depressed people may be anomalies but does that mean their perceptions are wrong in the objective sense? "Normal" human brains can often misinterpret reality, sometimes due to the vestiges of primal instincts that helped us survive (for instance, we're prone to seeing patterns even where there aren't any).

So it's not necessarily right to say that brains that simply function the way nature intends them to (consequently, the ones geared towards survival and so the release of hormones that aid that) are the ones functioning "correctly". Or that the way majority of brains function is the objectively correct way for a brain to function. Or that those brains are the ones whose perceptions are best aligned with objective reality when really, as biological organisms, the objective of our brains isn't to perceive reality accurately so much as to help us survive.

Life is too hard if you see it clearly. We need our optimism. "It would seem," the social psychologist Jonathon D. Brown has written, "that much as the immune system has evolved to protect the body from outside invaders, so, too, have people's cognitive capacities developed to insulate the self from threatening experiences." The pessimist always cries out in support of her bias that she sees things more accurately, that her positions are more true and real. Being accurate is not such a great virtue. "Reality," says Susan C. Vaughan, author of Half Empty, Half Full (Harcourt), "is overrated." Source

 

[LaVieEnRose]

I've told you this before I don't think the concept of mental illness really acccurately describes your experience. I think you just have a different emotional neurotype. I think your case challenges a lot of people's preconceived notions about suicidality (that is, if they're willing to be challenged).

I don't abjure the label of depression. But impairment resulting from it which is what the concept of mental illness is really founded on has been more of a feature of my life than yours, if I may say so.

 

[𝗟𝗼𝗻𝗲𝗹𝘆]

Never been diagnosed with anything. Thought of it seems calm yet scary. It would reassure me in what I think is wrong with me, give me explanations. On the other hand - who wants to know that there indeed is something wrong with them?
I think we often look for answers but deep down hope for everything to be normal.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Honestly- I don't know. I don't exactly think it's normal or natural to want to kill yourself.

Depends on the scope you understand those words have. It's still all we have ever known so even if it's not natural or normal for the human species how much relevance does that have for our positions? Frankly for someone in my own position it would be extremely abnormal to not want to die. I think anyone can be pushed to feeling suicidal given the presence of the right kind of personal triggers.

Maybe the beat word to use is "default". The default state of humans is to want and to be motivated to live.

 

[Abandoned Character]

Is it truly a sign of a brain that isn't functioning normally anymore?

I think depression is part of the brain working just fine, but it might be telling us that other parts are fucking up, or perhaps parts in the external world.

I cannot speak for all forms of depression, but I like to think of depression as a last resort defense mechanism. Depression tells us that something is deeply wrong, and seeking solutions to it will naturally lead one to their deepest problems. These problems may be mainly external, such as lack of housing, food, or money for basic necessities, or the loss of a loved one. The problems may also be internal where some may feel a deep lack of meaning and purpose.

Personally, I see the statement "I want to kill myself" in the more abstract sense. My brain sees something deeply wrong and wishes for the current incarnation to cease to exist, a complete demolishen of self so that a new identity can emerge. I think that total destruction of self is part of the immense suffering that comes with the condition, as part of us still deeply resists the urge to change. My suffering definitely manifests from this battle between the knowledge that I must change and the ego-clinging of maintaining the status quo.

You present a very interesting question, thank you for giving your thoughts

 

[LaVieEnRose]

. But impairment resulting from it which is what the concept of mental illness is really founded on has been more of a feature of my life than yours, if I may say so.

I'm sorry; this wasn't intended to invalidate your emotional anguish. It's just that the concept of mental illness resonates more when there has been a lot of certain practical problems that result from this emotional state, which is the only valid way they can say this constitutes an *illness*.

 

[TAW122]

The word depression itself is indeed a loaded word and also over-used word for many harmful purposes, both with dismissing, invalidating, and/or otherwise labeling a person who is upset or responds poorly to reality (in which is shitty). Anyways, with regards to the condition of depression itself, if it is referring to people being sad for long periods of time and without an actual cause, then yes, that kind of depression does exist as 'clinical depression' and would be a valid condition rather than just people who are sad due to reality. In fact, I find that in today's world, the word depression has been thrown around so much it's lost it's meaning and it's just another shame-dismissal tactic that people use to silence or otherwise ignore whatever the person is going through. As for professionals, I believe that it is overly diagnosed, such that even if one is suffering and reacting negatively to reality (a shitty world out there), or just have a very nihilistic view (which is a philosophical perspective!) on life, they could be labelled and branded as such. It's such an insult towards the people who have real depression (the actual, literal clinical definition of it) that the word gets misused, misappropriated, and thrown about like it's nothing.

As for whether it is normal for someone who wishes to CTB, I think as per nature, our biological instinct (which can be useful for people who want to thrive and live, but harmful towards those who wish to escape suffering - as it's a hindrance) makes it extremely difficult to do so. Therefore, from that perspective, I don't think it's normal (if according to nature itself) for one to want to CTB, but that isn't to say that CTB isn't an option nor that it isn't valid. It is a valid and rational choice when it is to escape perpetual suffering and/or no longer wish to fight a futile existence in which suffering outweighs pleasure. I will always support the notion of having CTB as an option and I fully disagree with people (including the "professionals" who claim that CTB is never an option or that it is a product of a defective mind or irrational actor.

 

[TransilvanianHunger]

"Depression is like a fever."

I've used this analogy before, I'm sure. When our bodies are fighting an infection or illness, the body's struggle presents itself as a fever. In the same way, when our psyche is struggling with something, this can present itself as depression. It is, in essence, a psychological response to something in us or in our environment that is causing us harm. More importantly, it's the mind's way of alerting us to the situation. When you have a fever and go to see a doctor, they don't focus on alleviating the fever and ignore everything else, though they might give you some medication to reduce the symptom while its underlying cause is being addressed. Unfortunately, many modalities of therapy and mental health care in general don't seem to share this view, and instead talk of depression as if it were a thing-in-itself and not a psychic response to some underlying cause that lives in the person's mind, life, or environment.

The notion of the biochemical imbalance, popular as it is, doesn't have much in the way of evidence to support itself. As far as I'm aware, no neural correlates to depression have been clearly established despite decades of studies. That's one of the reasons why antidepressants are so hit-or-miss—the clinician prescribes one medication or another hoping that it will have some positive effect, but there is little rhyme or reason as to why a pill might make someone feel better, worse, or if it'll have any effect at all. This is why I believe that deep psychotherapeutic work is necessary in cases of depression. In therapy, the patient works with the therapist to find out what is causing the psychic fever of depression, to arrive at a position where they can take action to address that issue instead of focusing on the depression itself.

More shocking I find is the quantity of people on antidepressants. Does that really mean that more people are mentally unbalanced these days or- does it mean that our lifestyles make us unhappy?

I believe it's the latter. Our modern lifestyles are hilariously unnatural and detrimental to normal human psychology, that it's no wonder more and more people are dealing with depression. It's a lifestyle that works for a time, but it is so noxious that fewer and fewer can endure it without feeling the effects. To quote Camus:

Rising, street car, four hours in the office or factory, meal, street car, four hours of work, meal, sleep and Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday, according to the same rhythm – this path is easily followed most of the time. But one day the 'why' arises and everything begins in that weariness tinged with amazement.

Realising that there is no "why", that we subject ourselves to this rhythm of "life" for no other reason than to wake up tomorrow and do it all over again until we drop dead, is a good way to send a person into the depths of depression. There is no pill on this Earth that can cure the illness of our modern lives.