Discussion Death Row Inmate Ctb

[Kdawg2018]

 

[Final Escape]

See what I mean? The most dangerous thing to man is the state.

 

[Kdawg2018]

There is more to this story. He asked a judge to kill him soon because he was ready and they approved it and then didn't do it. So he had to kill himself. I couldn't believe this. I was just watching the part about him being approved by the judge, I couldn't believe it when he ctb. I was pissed originally that a death row inmate could ctb faster and humane and I felt angry I didn't have the same right being a free citizen. But in the end they didn't honor his faster death wish and he took matters into his own hands, just like the rest of us

 

[Boxoftools]

There is more to this story. He asked a judge to kill him soon because he was ready and they approved it and then didn't do it. So he had to kill himself. I couldn't believe this. I was just watching the part about him being approved by the judge, I couldn't believe it when he ctb. I was pissed originally that a death row inmate could ctb faster and humane and I felt angry I didn't have the same right being a free citizen. But in the end they didn't honor his faster death wish and he took matters into his own hands, just like the rest of us

Well put. Consider for the most part very few people in this country die as peaceful death as lethal injection recipients. The more vocal or seemingly "repressed" portion of the population will have more advocates. By the very nature of suicidal people we've given up on help and don't fight for our own rights. I'm guilty of this to, I've been through enough and it's just to much work, if I have to buy a rope and practice hanging so be it. It's beats the hell out of trying to convince everyone else your sane and this is a logical decision.

 

[TAW122]

Well put. Consider for the most part very few people in this country die as peaceful death as lethal injection recipients. The more vocal or seemingly "repressed" portion of the population will have more advocates. By the very nature of suicidal people we've given up on help and don't fight for our own rights. I'm guilty of this to, I've been through enough and it's just to much work, if I have to buy a rope and practice hanging so be it. It's beats the hell out of trying to convince everyone else your sane and this is a logical decision.

Yes, I second this. Sometimes it is easier to just take care of matters oneself than to try to persuade (unsuccessfully) or gain permission to do so. Here is where I would go with Nike's slogan of "Just Do It."

 

[Chinaski]

Well put. Consider for the most part very few people in this country die as peaceful death as lethal injection recipients. The more vocal or seemingly "repressed" portion of the population will have more advocates.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with this part, but the discussion about how those sentenced to death somehow have it cushy compared to those who wish to ctb has been done on here before, and tbh l really struggle with the idea that those sentenced to death are to be envied due to the assumed peacefulness of their passing.

 

[Boxoftools]

I'm not sure what you're getting at with this part, but the discussion about how those sentenced to death somehow have it cushy compared to those who wish to ctb has been done on here before, and tbh l really struggle with the idea that those sentenced to death are to be envied due to the assumed peacefulness of their passing.

I think you may have missed what my point was, I do not envy death row inmates but the fact of it is that they have people protesting and putting pressure to ensure they have a peaceful death, suicidal people don't have that benefit. I'm not saying it would be preferable just simply drawing a comparison between how we treat convicted criminal vs. how we deal with mental health.

 

[Kitsunefox]

This freaked me out

 

[Chinaski]

I think you may have missed what my point was, I do not envy death row inmates but the fact of it is that they have people protesting and putting pressure to ensure they have a peaceful death, suicidal people don't have that benefit. I'm not saying it would be preferable just simply drawing a comparison between how we treat convicted criminal vs. how we deal with mental health.

Yeah, fair enough, but tbh l bristle at any comparison between death penalty and ctb whenever it's drawn on here, principally because I'm very much opposed to the death penalty and see it as a barbaric and ghoulish spectacle. It absolutely stands to reason that there are people who are going to take up a position which ensures state murder is at least delivered humanely imo, whatever their crime these people are paying the ultimate price and are significantly dehumanised in the process. I also don't consider this position to be at all hypocritical; we are all at liberty to take our own lives via a method of our choosing, if the reason why this hasn't occurred is because there aren't enough advocates fighting for peaceful voluntary euthanasia then frankly, the individual isn't ready to ctb, and that is absolutely fair enough.

 

[bigj75]

How did he ctb?

 

[Boxoftools]

Yeah, fair enough, but tbh l bristle at any comparison between death penalty and ctb whenever it's drawn on here, principally because I'm very much opposed to the death penalty and see it as a barbaric and ghoulish spectacle. It absolutely stands to reason that there are people who are going to take up a position which ensures state murder is at least delivered humanely imo, whatever their crime these people are paying the ultimate price and are significantly dehumanised in the process. I also don't consider this position to be at all hypocritical; we are all at liberty to take our own lives via a method of our choosing, if the reason why this hasn't occurred is because there aren't enough advocates fighting for peaceful voluntary euthanasia then frankly, the individual isn't ready to ctb, and that is absolutely fair enough.

I fully agree that we don't have enough advocates, unfortunately it seems to me that this isn't likely to change in my lifetime. On the other point I can totally agree that it is dehumanizing and not always correct. On your other points we will have to agree to disagree in my view they dehumanized themselves with lack of compassion and moral aptitude that separates us from animals. I wouldn't ever call you a hypocrite and I honestly appreciate a good discussion and trying to emphasize with opposing views point. Thanks for the good discussion I'm definitely going to think more on it.

 

[Chinaski]

On your other points we will have to agree to disagree in my view they dehumanized themselves with lack of compassion and moral aptitude that separates us from animals.

Indeed, it does look like we'll have to agree to disagree; but l must take issue with the notion that compassion is an inherently human trait. Man has been killing man since the dawn of time and this has not been bred out of us as a species. Consider how much the USA spends on sophisticated weapons of war compared to how much it devotes to, say, universally free healthcare, for example. Despicable deeds are very much a part of us as a species sadly, and the death penalty is an example of inhumanity rather than a deterrent from it.

 

[Boxoftools]

Indeed, it does look like we'll have to agree to disagree; but l must take issue with the notion that compassion is an inherently human trait. Man has been killing man since the dawn of time and this has not been bred out of us as a species. Consider how much the USA spends on sophisticated weapons of war compared to how much it devotes to, say, universally free healthcare, for example. Despicable deeds are very much a part of us as a species sadly, and the death penalty is an example of inhumanity rather than a deterrent from it.

Well taken, war has been a specifically human trait. However I see a cause and effect relationship here, for the most part I think even the most hardened of people can feel compassion for animals outside of our own species and that has rarely been observed in any other animal. I believe that humans are naturally a contradictory animal we have a incredible capacity for humanity, empathy, and compassion; As well as hate, fear, malice, cruelty. I don't believe that lethal injection, death, suicide ect can never take away from someone's humanity only the individual can. It definitely does change the perception from society of them (I think that may be what your getting at correct me if I'm wrong) but in reality that's a natural instinct designed to (in subconscious perception) keep us safe and separate us from potential threats and harm. To me prison and the death sentence is just the next logical extension of these feelings. Here is a real world example, woman had both hands cut off by her husband for talking back, said husband has regularly killed his children if they were women, and all of this is embraced by his society. The compassionate non vocals are always silent in fear of the unfathomable acts their leader commit. What do we do with people who condone and participate in such behavior? When do we hit the point that someone has absolutely no benefit to society or themselves and are frequently incapable of feeling remorse? Of course rehabilitation should always be the first option and should be pursued vigorously. But sometimes it's just a option. In my previous example a man like that has forfeit his life by imposing such a punishment on the innocent.

 

[Chinaski]

What do we do with people who condone and participate in such behavior? When do we hit the point that someone has absolutely no benefit to society or themselves and are frequently incapable of feeling remorse? Of course rehabilitation should always be the first option and should be pursued vigorously. But sometimes it's just a option.

I get that people are often pieces of shit. I even consider that some people may be further beyond redemption than others, though l haven't talked about "rehabilitation", which is way too flexible a word and has many definitions, depending on which politician happens to be using it at the time. I'm just talking about, like, not literally killing people to satisfy vengeful bloodlust and pretending that doing so is somehow of some greater societal benefit in 2019.

Btw, the talk of lethal injection being a nice way to go, which has occasionally been mentioned here, is way wide of the mark. The most "humane" form of execution was the long drop hanging perfected by Pierrepoint in the UK. Absolutely painless, over in a split second, and without the nauseating drama which surrounds US executions. Even then, the UK rightly abolished it in 1965 whilst the US are causing seriously agonising deaths with their lethal injections to this day.

 

[Boxoftools]

I get that people are often pieces of shit. I even consider that some people may be further beyond redemption than others, though l haven't talked about "rehabilitation", which is way too flexible a word and has many definitions, depending on which politician happens to be using it at the time. I'm just talking about, like, not literally killing people to satisfy vengeful bloodlust and pretending that doing so is somehow of some greater societal benefit in 2019.

Btw, the talk of lethal injection being a nice way to go, which has occasionally been mentioned here, is way wide of the mark. The most "humane" form of execution was the long drop hanging perfected by Pierrepoint in the UK. Absolutely painless, over in a split second, and without the nauseating drama which surrounds US executions. Even then, the UK rightly abolished it in 1965 whilst the US are causing seriously agonising deaths with their lethal injections to this day.

I can appreciate that point of view. You have definitely given me some things to think about. I hope you find your peace. I think we can agree all together that human life and the decision to end it should rest with the individual who's life is in question. Obviously we differ on extenuating circumstances but I see no reason to get hung up on it.