Venting Dating

[notwhereIbelong]

I swear I'm this close to turning into a femcel. This will probably sound like a femcel rant but have some patience, I'm going through it.

The femcel thing is mostly a joke. I don't mean any hate to the men here on SS or in general, I'm just tired

I know this is a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but it's something that I've dealing with in my path to recovery/attempting at life, and it's really depressing me.

The main takeaway I've gathered from my experience is:
I'm not enough. I'm undesirable. I'm unlovable.

I decided to give dating a shot and try to find someone again just this year, quite some time after my last (and first) breakup. Met a guy through a mutual friend, we hit it off immediately, we spend two great months together, I'm thinking to myself "fuck, I may actually have found someone interested in me". Then he asks me if I'd get mad if he slept with my friend. What the fuck.

And this is always the problem, it always comes back to this: I'm not enough.
People just don't see me as enough to start a proper, exclusive, relationship with me. I'm only good enough to be a one night stand (and even that has only happened like twice), or someone to see for a month or so. That is, if they're even into me enough to attempt dating me. And even this is so fucking rare. This is the first guy I had been going out with in so long. And of course it just crashed and burned, because I don't deserve anything better.

I know I'm still pretty young, and if we discard the wall theory I still have time (if we do take the wall theory as truth, then I'm pretty much fucked), but seeing the people around me having relationships and stuff, really highlights my loneliness.
And the people who tell me "You are enough!" are always the ones who have a constant supply of relationships, flings, and people into them. I have none of that.

I know I'm not going to find my soulmate immediately, I don't even know if I'll even ever find them, but I'm not even being given the chance to try. When I see someone I like they're always either already taken or just not into me.
And it's not like I have some insanely high standards, I'm not even sure I have standards at all. Apparently I'm just, not appealing enough? I don't even know, it's not like I get feedback on why people won't take me into consideration.

I worked on my appearance, personal hygiene, personality, hobbies, social circle, I'm not a NEET any more, I leave the house, try my best to seem functional, did a lot of therapy, and I'm apparently good looking enough (according to my friends/acquaintances). I'm a woman with an alt fashion style/music taste, aren't men supposed to be into that?

But apparently I'm just not enough. And I can't figure out what I'm lacking.

My friend has been suggesting dating apps, but I need pictures for those, and I hate taking them because of issues with self-esteem. The only decent picture I have of myself is one I took in a club's bathroom while tipsy. I'm not someone who takes selfies. And even then, I know the only thing I'll find on dating apps are men looking for a quick hookup or couples looking for a second girl. Which, fine enough I guess, it should boost my self-esteem a bit, but I'd like to have something more y'know? Have someone who takes a genuine interest in me. I thought I had it, but of course I just fooled myself.

I just want to be enough. I want to be cared for.
And I wish this was just a problem with dating. But I don't feel like I'm enough in life in general. And after all these years, I still can't figure out what the issue is. What is wrong with me. I wish someone would just hand me a slip of paper and tell me "This is your issue, fix it".
It feels like I'm just going in circles. I'm a dog chasing its own tail.
I'm not good enough for my career path.
I'm not good enough for love.
I've never been good enough for my family.
I'm not even that good at my hobbies.

What am I enough for? When will I finally be enough?

 

[Adûnâi]

People just don't see me as enough to start a proper, exclusive, relationship with me. I'm only good enough to be a one night stand (and even that has only happened like twice), or someone to see for a month or so.

I'm so desperate, I have been texting this 35 yo femcel for 6.5 months every day at this point, for the first time in my life, although we are utterly, completely psychologically incompatible. And I don't even mean sex, I'm just vaguely curious about what holding hands with a girl might feel like.

So yeah, I want to believe I have zero standards, and that I'm proof that desperate incels ready for everything do exist. And I still feel like I'm not desperate enough.

And it's not like I have some insanely high standards, I'm not even sure I have standards at all. Apparently I'm just, not appealing enough? I don't even know, it's not like I get feedback on why people won't take me into consideration.

I have a hard time imagining who would be not appealing enough. Physically, anything above having infectious skin disease. Intellectually, anything above being a vegetable. I've considered the normies, and while they are clearly as subpar to me as I am to some members of this forum, I could definitely imagine talking to them on their level. The main thing is having interests - and even my mom whom I consider unbearably stupid has curious interests such as... perfumes of all things! And, of course, travelling.

The gist is to have any interests at all. And aside from the vegetables, everyone seems to have them just fine. (Even I do, despite being a lazy bum. But I can still talk about my favourite history and culture war topics haha.)

I'm not even that good at my hobbies.

Not suicidal enough, too?^^ (I feel so fake as well, not even killing myself, also a fake gamer who only watches streams instead of playing.)

I hope this doesn't come off as creepy. And if my future gf sees this post, she's gonna give me the time to drink SN xddd

 

[notwhereIbelong]

I'm so desperate, I have been texting this 35 yo femcel for 6.5 months every day at this point, for the first time in my life, although we are utterly, completely psychologically incompatible. And I don't even mean sex, I'm just vaguely curious about what holding hands with a girl might feel like.

So yeah, I want to believe I have zero standards, and that I'm proof that desperate incels ready for everything do exist. And I still feel like I'm not desperate enough.

I do recognize that I've been lucky enough to have SOME romantic experience. Of all the people I know, I'm still the one with the least experience, but I have at least been lucky enough to have a bit.
But I don't know, maybe it's because I'm a woman and my dumb woman brain wants that whirlwind romance. Fuck I'd be totally fine with a virgin or just generally someone with little to no experience, the guy I was seeing was supposed to be like that, but we've seen how even that failed. Maybe I boosted his ego too much.

have a hard time imagining who would be not appealing enough. Physically, anything above having infectious skin disease. Intellectually, anything above being a vegetable. I've considered the normies, and while they are clearly as subpar to me as I am to some members of this forum, I could definitely imagine talking to them on their level. The main thing is having interests - and even my mom whom I consider unbearably stupid has curious interests such as... perfumes of all things! And, of course, travelling.

The gist is to have any interests at all. And aside from the vegetables, everyone seems to have them just fine. (Even I do, despite being a lazy bum. But I can still talk about my favourite history and culture war topics haha.)

Despite my low self-esteem I think I'm not that bad looking, I know I'm at least decent, some may even consider me good. Which just confuses me even more. Sure, I may not be as good looking as my friend, but it's not like I'm hideous either.
I'm fine with normies too, I don't mind people with different interests, I think it can even be more interesting. And I do have interests (or so I believe?), but potential dating candidates just don't seem so be interested in me enough to find out about them. So again, confusion.

Not suicidal enough, too?^^ (I feel so fake as well, not even killing myself, also a fake gamer who only watches streams instead of playing.)

Yeah lol. About a year ago I got pretty much a once in lifetime chance, so I decided to try and stay alive. This forum still helps me somewhat tough, so I'm still here. I am kinda fucking up my chance though, so CBT may come back on the table, even without the whole dating debacle

I hope this doesn't come off as creepy. And if my future gf sees this post, she's gonna give me the time to drink SN xddd

Good luck on getting that special someone man o7

 

[JoysoftheEmptiness]

I've given up on dating, on the verge of giving up on life, forget ctb, I want to catch a luxury coach with all mod cons and go out screaming.

 

[Death Diviner]

I swear I'm this close to turning into a femcel. This will probably sound like a femcel rant but have some patience, I'm going through it.

The femcel thing is mostly a joke. I don't mean any hate to the men here on SS or in general, I'm just tired

I know this is a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but it's something that I've dealing with in my path to recovery/attempting at life, and it's really depressing me.

The main takeaway I've gathered from my experience is:
I'm not enough. I'm undesirable. I'm unlovable.

I decided to give dating a shot and try to find someone again just this year, quite some time after my last (and first) breakup. Met a guy through a mutual friend, we hit it off immediately, we spend two great months together, I'm thinking to myself "fuck, I may actually have found someone interested in me". Then he asks me if I'd get mad if he slept with my friend. What the fuck.

And this is always the problem, it always comes back to this: I'm not enough.
People just don't see me as enough to start a proper, exclusive, relationship with me. I'm only good enough to be a one night stand (and even that has only happened like twice), or someone to see for a month or so. That is, if they're even into me enough to attempt dating me. And even this is so fucking rare. This is the first guy I had been going out with in so long. And of course it just crashed and burned, because I don't deserve anything better.

I know I'm still pretty young, and if we discard the wall theory I still have time (if we do take the wall theory as truth, then I'm pretty much fucked), but seeing the people around me having relationships and stuff, really highlights my loneliness.
And the people who tell me "You are enough!" are always the ones who have a constant supply of relationships, flings, and people into them. I have none of that.

I know I'm not going to find my soulmate immediately, I don't even know if I'll even ever find them, but I'm not even being given the chance to try. When I see someone I like they're always either already taken or just not into me.
And it's not like I have some insanely high standards, I'm not even sure I have standards at all. Apparently I'm just, not appealing enough? I don't even know, it's not like I get feedback on why people won't take me into consideration.

I worked on my appearance, personal hygiene, personality, hobbies, social circle, I'm not a NEET any more, I leave the house, try my best to seem functional, did a lot of therapy, and I'm apparently good looking enough (according to my friends/acquaintances). I'm a woman with an alt fashion style/music taste, aren't men supposed to be into that?

But apparently I'm just not enough. And I can't figure out what I'm lacking.

My friend has been suggesting dating apps, but I need pictures for those, and I hate taking them because of issues with self-esteem. The only decent picture I have of myself is one I took in a club's bathroom while tipsy. I'm not someone who takes selfies. And even then, I know the only thing I'll find on dating apps are men looking for a quick hookup or couples looking for a second girl. Which, fine enough I guess, it should boost my self-esteem a bit, but I'd like to have something more y'know? Have someone who takes a genuine interest in me. I thought I had it, but of course I just fooled myself.

I just want to be enough. I want to be cared for.
And I wish this was just a problem with dating. But I don't feel like I'm enough in life in general. And after all these years, I still can't figure out what the issue is. What is wrong with me. I wish someone would just hand me a slip of paper and tell me "This is your issue, fix it".
It feels like I'm just going in circles. I'm a dog chasing its own tail.
I'm not good enough for my career path.
I'm not good enough for love.
I've never been good enough for my family.
I'm not even that good at my hobbies.

What am I enough for? When will I finally be enough?

Oh, this hit the spot, shook my black heart. It's so aggravating when you're told "You'll get someone.","Dating isn't important.","You'll find the one for you."

Haha! Years have gone by! Years are perhaps going to follow! All these people with "experience", they do not understand. They do not understand the alienation. They do not know how it feels like to do your best attempt only to fall short. I imagine its easier to render the struggles of another inconsequential when those struggles are utterly alien . The constant search for affirmation, the futile attempts at flexibility. "Love yourself, then someone will love you." Fxck! I developed a god complex, and here I stand. We do not feel good enough. Maybe we aren't! It's just frustrating.

All I ever desired is to experience a relationship once. Just once. To feel...desired. Do not tell me that doesn't matter. Do not tell me the negatives of romantic relationships. Do not tell me I'm better off without. I mean, look at me without: dwindling, paranoid, feeling insignificant and unlovable, slowly becoming ultra bitter, and these all accumulate with every rejection (ah, and it's always a rejection).

Like you, I've tried to explore what the problem was within myself. I possessed the qualities most desired(i.e. tall ,dark and handsome —last part is very questionable), I've been the smartest guy in the room, the most caring. But still...not enough. I cannot outdo myself, I've outdone others and yet they've chosen those beneath me. Ah, maybe that's my problem. The condescension! NO! This is merely a result of my bitterness, something I don't outwardly portray. All what a waste! What a lonely place!

 

[Mirrory Me]

Dating is so much pressure if you don't feel confident enough, yet the act feels good (they call it libido and it makes people more passionate and creative, and relaxed and happy afterwards).

 

[notwhereIbelong]

"You'll get someone.","Dating isn't important.","You'll find the one for you."

Those drive me insane! My "friends" are always telling me "You'll find someone! You're great!"
WHEN? WHERE?

And let me tell you, as someone who has had the luck to get a bit of experience, I can't say which is worse. Because it's like, I've gotten a taste of it, but never the full thing y'know? In the one relationship I had there was no love, I have no clue why it was even a thing. I wasn't even enjoying the sex, it was just bad all around. And the few people that I felt I may have a connection with? Nothing, barely even a taste. These last two months are the most romance I've ever gotten and even this ended up failing.
It's like this forbidden fruit that is just outside my reach. I can graze it with my fingers, I can see it, but I'll never be able to actually grab it. And I can't tell which is worse, getting a little taste of the fruit, being able to see it, but never fully having access to it, or not being able to even see the fruit at all?

 

[cryone]

i know what you mean; i struggle with this too. searching endlessly & never finding...yeah. rationally, i think we both know that we still have time to find relationships, but it just seems impossible b/c everyone else is doing it sm quicker. all my friends who want someone have someone. i think im literally the only outlier. ive tried many times, but there's always someone better than me. i dont have any unique qualities to counteract that either. always someone smarter & funnier & prettier.

 

[Chr0nicAnhedonic]

It's funny, I was about to post a thread about this myself. I thought I had killed the part of me that desires romantic love, but it's come back to haunt me lately. I'm friendless and my personality is incredibly offputting to most people (along with now being unable to reciprocate the kindnesses people do share with me), and yet I'm still a hopeless romantic who desires intimacy more than anything.

Like you, all of my past relationships ended because I wasn't enough for the person I was with. A lot of people only wanted to use me for sex, and even those that didn't were somehow dissatisfied with an aspect of myself. I don't really blame them, I love people too much and it likely suffocates them; combined with my otherwise jaded personality it likely pushes people away.

I'm not made to have a relationship like that, and yet I still long for one. I wish I knew how to get rid of that feeling for good.

 

[lamargue]

Oh, this hit the spot, shook my black heart. It's so aggravating when you're told "You'll get someone.","Dating isn't important.","You'll find the one for you."

Haha! Years have gone by! Years are perhaps going to follow! All these people with "experience", they do not understand. They do not understand the alienation. They do not know how it feels like to do your best attempt only to fall short. I imagine its easier to render the struggles of another inconsequential when those struggles are utterly alien . The constant search for affirmation, the futile attempts at flexibility. "Love yourself, then someone will love you." Fxck! I developed a god complex, and here I stand. We do not feel good enough. Maybe we aren't! It's just frustrating.

All I ever desired is to experience a relationship once. Just once. To feel...desired. Do not tell me that doesn't matter. Do not tell me the negatives of romantic relationships. Do not tell me I'm better off without. I mean, look at me without: dwindling, paranoid, feeling insignificant and unlovable, slowly becoming ultra bitter, and these all accumulate with every rejection (ah, and it's always a rejection).

Like you, I've tried to explore what the problem was within myself. I possessed the qualities most desired(i.e. tall ,dark and handsome —last part is very questionable), I've been the smartest guy in the room, the most caring. But still...not enough. I cannot outdo myself, I've outdone others and yet they've chosen those beneath me. Ah, maybe that's my problem. The condescension! NO! This is merely a result of my bitterness, something I don't outwardly portray. All what a waste! What a lonely place!

the realest thing that i've ever read on this forum.

we're all just looking in the wrong places aren't we

 

[ThatStateOfMind]

The worst break up I've had and honestly the only real one (had some talking stages that ended but I wouldn't call those breaking up) was also my first. I got cheated on and then dumped for said guy I was cheated on with. Seriously felt like an incel for a period in terms of distrust and a slight tinge of hatred, now I'm all good but I'm definitely going to have trust issues for a while, I can already tell, so you're not alone, I also feel like I'll never be enough occasionally. Of course, genders are flipped in this scenario but seriously, forget that guy. What kinda doofus asked if you would be upset if he slept with your friend, he definitely knew the answer.

Anyways, I seriously do hope you can find happiness and don't beat yourself up too bad. I had to learn that lesson too, that not everything is my fault and I can't fix it so everything.

I know I'm still pretty young, and if we discard the wall theory I still have time (if we do take the wall theory as truth, then I'm pretty much fucked)

Also, what is the wall theory?

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

Dating in general seems like a nothingburger these days. If you express interest, you get ghosted, if you want to be exclusive, you're needy, if you want companionship and togetherness you're a monster who doesn't respect another person's freedom. It seems to me like it's become a competition of who can be the most aloof, and if there is a relationship it's invariably based on some non-committal, polyamorous nonsense that speaks volumes as to people's inability to be monogamous or self-sacrificing in any meaningful way.

If I were seriously interested in establishing a new romantic relationship, I'd consider myself royally fucked.

 

[banger12]

I swear I'm this close to turning into a femcel. This will probably sound like a femcel rant but have some patience, I'm going through it.

The femcel thing is mostly a joke. I don't mean any hate to the men here on SS or in general, I'm just tired

I know this is a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but it's something that I've dealing with in my path to recovery/attempting at life, and it's really depressing me.

The main takeaway I've gathered from my experience is:
I'm not enough. I'm undesirable. I'm unlovable.

I decided to give dating a shot and try to find someone again just this year, quite some time after my last (and first) breakup. Met a guy through a mutual friend, we hit it off immediately, we spend two great months together, I'm thinking to myself "fuck, I may actually have found someone interested in me". Then he asks me if I'd get mad if he slept with my friend. What the fuck.

And this is always the problem, it always comes back to this: I'm not enough.
People just don't see me as enough to start a proper, exclusive, relationship with me. I'm only good enough to be a one night stand (and even that has only happened like twice), or someone to see for a month or so. That is, if they're even into me enough to attempt dating me. And even this is so fucking rare. This is the first guy I had been going out with in so long. And of course it just crashed and burned, because I don't deserve anything better.

I know I'm still pretty young, and if we discard the wall theory I still have time (if we do take the wall theory as truth, then I'm pretty much fucked), but seeing the people around me having relationships and stuff, really highlights my loneliness.
And the people who tell me "You are enough!" are always the ones who have a constant supply of relationships, flings, and people into them. I have none of that.

I know I'm not going to find my soulmate immediately, I don't even know if I'll even ever find them, but I'm not even being given the chance to try. When I see someone I like they're always either already taken or just not into me.
And it's not like I have some insanely high standards, I'm not even sure I have standards at all. Apparently I'm just, not appealing enough? I don't even know, it's not like I get feedback on why people won't take me into consideration.

I worked on my appearance, personal hygiene, personality, hobbies, social circle, I'm not a NEET any more, I leave the house, try my best to seem functional, did a lot of therapy, and I'm apparently good looking enough (according to my friends/acquaintances). I'm a woman with an alt fashion style/music taste, aren't men supposed to be into that?

But apparently I'm just not enough. And I can't figure out what I'm lacking.

My friend has been suggesting dating apps, but I need pictures for those, and I hate taking them because of issues with self-esteem. The only decent picture I have of myself is one I took in a club's bathroom while tipsy. I'm not someone who takes selfies. And even then, I know the only thing I'll find on dating apps are men looking for a quick hookup or couples looking for a second girl. Which, fine enough I guess, it should boost my self-esteem a bit, but I'd like to have something more y'know? Have someone who takes a genuine interest in me. I thought I had it, but of course I just fooled myself.

I just want to be enough. I want to be cared for.
And I wish this was just a problem with dating. But I don't feel like I'm enough in life in general. And after all these years, I still can't figure out what the issue is. What is wrong with me. I wish someone would just hand me a slip of paper and tell me "This is your issue, fix it".
It feels like I'm just going in circles. I'm a dog chasing its own tail.
I'm not good enough for my career path.
I'm not good enough for love.
I've never been good enough for my family.
I'm not even that good at my hobbies.

What am I enough for? When will I finally be enough?

Just a disclaimer ahead of time, I'm a guy, so I probably don't understand what your situation or that of women in general is like that well.

Honestly your frustrations are quite reasonable, and I can understand how women may slip into femcel stuff, because, speaking as a man, we suck, men just suck. And in general, from what I understand (I'm not involved in it ofc) the dating market is just a toxic market in general.

The recent situation you described sounds incredibly hurtful. Thinking you found something great just to be hit with that. The guy is a pig.

I've done dating apps in the past so I'd advise you to stay away. He'll, it's probably even worse for women.

To offer some reassurance, you're enough. The problem isn't with you, but instead that the world is cold and unloving. That's always been the case. But it's really sad now because people anymore view members of the opposite sex either as meat or objects of resentment.

Wish I could offer more help, but I hope this at least makes you fell less alone and more empathized with.

 

[Downdraft]

polyamorous nonsense

If you don't like it fine, but don't attack people for having different needs than you. It's and looks selfish.

 

[Death Diviner]

Those drive me insane! My "friends" are always telling me "You'll find someone! You're great!"
WHEN? WHERE?

And let me tell you, as someone who has had the luck to get a bit of experience, I can't say which is worse. Because it's like, I've gotten a taste of it, but never the full thing y'know? In the one relationship I had there was no love, I have no clue why it was even a thing. I wasn't even enjoying the sex, it was just bad all around. And the few people that I felt I may have a connection with? Nothing, barely even a taste. These last two months are the most romance I've ever gotten and even this ended up failing.
It's like this forbidden fruit that is just outside my reach. I can graze it with my fingers, I can see it, but I'll never be able to actually grab it. And I can't tell which is worse, getting a little taste of the fruit, being able to see it, but never fully having access to it, or not being able to even see the fruit at all?

As someone who has desired companionship, someone who loves me for what and who I am(at this point, I feel these expectations are unrealistic of me), I would be crippled to be in a romantic relationship where I feel I am in love alone, or to be viewed as something that can be used and then discarded.

I could imagine the horrors that plague your sense of significance, worthiness and your future trajectory. I will not tell you it'll get better, for I do not know.

I've come to observe people significantly older than me on this site that have had little to no luck in finding a mate. And that just scares me, I do not wish to continue as this unlovable, inexperienced creature for the rest of my days. And as I experience no romantic relationships, as I am constantly rejected, the feeling that I'm wasting away my youth becomes a tragic feeling lingering in the back of my mind. People telling me I'm not missing out on anything, people constantly preaching how it's nothing, people who have experienced the joys and adversities of the dating market, they just piss me off. It's tantamount to being told by a rich man that "Money doesn't fix your problems." It might not, but it sure as hell would be amazing to confirm your claim. Alas, I'm not given the chance. I just don't see, don't understand, why am I not good enough?

I really do not understand, the people who never got a partner who loves and understands them—if they were lucky enough to get such—people like you, seem to be good people. The males who were never accepted, they showed no signs of misogyny, women objectifying or incel behaviour, and yet they failed to even establish a relationship. This just terrifies me, and agonizes me. I have observed douchebags who view women as sex objects, very successful in the dating market. They so casually find and discard a woman like it's nothing. And yet, they've been chosen over me several times, this collapsing my self-esteem. I have not met any women like that, if I did, my standards have dropped so low that I wouldn't mind to be a next victim just so I can get the experience. But as I mentioned before... this would cripple me... maybe she should pass.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

Oh, this hit the spot, shook my black heart. It's so aggravating when you're told "You'll get someone.","Dating isn't important.","You'll find the one for you."

Haha! Years have gone by! Years are perhaps going to follow! All these people with "experience", they do not understand. They do not understand the alienation. They do not know how it feels like to do your best attempt only to fall short. I imagine its easier to render the struggles of another inconsequential when those struggles are utterly alien . The constant search for affirmation, the futile attempts at flexibility. "Love yourself, then someone will love you." Fxck! I developed a god complex, and here I stand. We do not feel good enough. Maybe we aren't! It's just frustrating.

All I ever desired is to experience a relationship once. Just once. To feel...desired. Do not tell me that doesn't matter. Do not tell me the negatives of romantic relationships. Do not tell me I'm better off without. I mean, look at me without: dwindling, paranoid, feeling insignificant and unlovable, slowly becoming ultra bitter, and these all accumulate with every rejection (ah, and it's always a rejection).

Like you, I've tried to explore what the problem was within myself. I possessed the qualities most desired(i.e. tall ,dark and handsome —last part is very questionable), I've been the smartest guy in the room, the most caring. But still...not enough. I cannot outdo myself, I've outdone others and yet they've chosen those beneath me. Ah, maybe that's my problem. The condescension! NO! This is merely a result of my bitterness, something I don't outwardly portray. All what a waste! What a lonely place!

I love this response so much that I bookmarked it, lol! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Eternal Eyes]

I gave up on dating, or even having a relationship long ago. I wouldn't suggest dating sites or conventional dating at all to be honest. You'll either find timewasters or people just interested in one night stands. The horror stories I see online are enough to keep me away as well.

I think the main thing people initially want (or look for on first date) in relationships is confidence or the illusion of it at least. As soon as you label yourself an incel or femcel, your confidence is just shot in your head, and you'll probably project a lack of confidence, no confidence = no one interested. I genuinely think personality is all that comes down to it, how many times have we seen an unattractive person with a good looking person? I don't buy this whole Im not tall enough/other physical traits ideology.

 

[Dome42315]

I get where you're coming from. My past relationships were horrible, and honestly, were probably partially what drove me here.

However, I personally like to stay a little bit hopeful. My theory is that a lot of us are a bit more introverted, especially when it comes to relationships. And people like that end up being a good match for other people like that. Unfortunately, introverts are much less likely to meet each other than extroverts are to meet both extroverts and introverts; furthermore, extroverts end up getting to know people better faster as well. Also I feel like the quieter types end up not going to apps as frequently (a lot of us have been burned, and a lot of us are shy/have bad self-esteem). So in my eyes, a lot of the people who would be good for us don't meet each other. I have both straight male and female friends that I feel like generally would be good for each other, but they just never meet because they're just less likely to. Just a personal cope theory though.

Also our inexperience with relationships/low self-esteem makes us compromise too much and we end up in really shitty relationships, causing the cycle to go on.

 

[notwhereIbelong]

I was not expecting this much traction on my post ah, I feel a bit overwhelmed responding to everyone but I hear you all and appreciate the input

Also, what is the wall theory?

That women supposedly hit 'a wall' of desirability after a certain age. I don't remember the exact age, seems to be 30 y.o. at max

 

[derpyderpins]

I was not expecting this much traction on my post ah, I feel a bit overwhelmed responding to everyone but I hear you all and appreciate the input

It's an issue that a lot of people can relate to. I'm settled and happy with my marriage, but I know I got lucky. I was not cut out for modern dating life.

I read you talk about that guy who straight up asked you if he could screw someone else while you were dating and my instinct is 'no way. People aren't that bad,' but then I think about the last girl I was ""with"" before my wife who led me on and on and in the end just wanted to use me for a night because she was just kinda slutty and soulless and I realize that dating really is that bad these days.

I don't understand it. We're so distant and caught up in ourselves, and we get blasted with terrible messaging and signals from all sides. And we're unfulfilled and desperate for answers and to fill the god-shaped hole. So people are always looking for something they perceive as being better than what they currently have, and can't recognize that to actually get value from your relationship you have to commit and work on it over time.

Anyway, yeah it doesn't surprise me that people relate. I hope things get better. Don't stress about your appearance, as long as you're taking care of yourself. Guys fall in love with girls who are imperfect by conventional standards all the time. The hard part is finding someone who actually wants what you do - rather than just saying it then flaking when their life isn't perfect after a couple weeks/months.

 

[ThatStateOfMind]

That women supposedly hit 'a wall' of desirability after a certain age. I don't remember the exact age, seems to be 30 y.o. at max

Hmm, I've genuinely never heard of that before so I've learned something new. Personally, to me, it just sounds like an excuse for dudes to be creeps and hit on 20 year olds. It seems misogynistic in that it implies that all a partner brings is youth and looks. It also ignores individual preferences. There's many people in their 30s, 40s, etc. who value traits beyond looks such as maturity, stability, and shared life experiences. There's not much you can do at 40 to relate to a 20 year old so again, it ties back to my point of being kinda creepy. Also, aging happens to everyone and men also experience age-related shifts in attractiveness, a large one is balding, yet these conversations are rarely framed in the same way.

I don't know. To me, the wall theory just sounds silly. I don't think you have anything to worry about in that regard. Also, sorry for the lengthy reply, but I do wish you the best.

 

[Blurry_Buildings]

I think I might be able to relate a little. I've never been in a relationship and likely never will be. We live in a world where everyone cares about physical attractiveness more than they're ever willing to admit. There are always exceptions, but it just is how it is for the most part. Its always upsetting to hear older married people or conventionally attractive friends try to tell you it isn't a big deal or to just "be yourself". They mean well, but they will never understand. Half of all relationships today start on dating apps, and the other half are people who are decent looking or have the social skills to make up for it.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I know it feels terrible being alone, probably even more so if you once had something only for it to end the way it did. I hope you are able to find someone.

 

[-nobodyknows-]

Hearing about this sort of thing makes me so upset. I can't understand why people would treat someone like that.

 

[Aloneandinpain]

I think you're making things much more complicated than they need to be and perhaps failing to understand men a bit.

A decent/normal man is remarkably simple for the most part.

He doesn't care about your career or how much money you have, he probably doesn't really like your alt fashion sense either, though isn't really bothered either way and doesn't really care. Men aren't really into fashion the way women are.

Ultimately most men just want a loyal partner and a peaceful life.

It's not politically correct to ay this, but statistically there's a correlation between a woman's number of partners and her loyalty, so he probably wants someone with a lower body count.

In a lot of cases, obesity is a big turn off, and for some guys so are tattoos, short hair and piercings, plus excessive make-up or fake tan but other than that almost anyone can be enough. I mean a good summary of the above is that almost any woman is enough unless she's damaged herself or become damaged by others (or just enjoys/creates drama for fun).

You said the only selfie of you was taken drunk in a bathroom. That's two red flags right there, decent men don't really want women who drink excessively and take photos in bathrooms.

You seem to have definitely improved yourself a bit, but the key is to focus on what's important.

 

[drug]

I think you're making things much more complicated than they need to be and perhaps failing to understand men a bit.

A decent/normal man is remarkably simple for the most part.

He doesn't care about your career or how much money you have, he probably doesn't really like your alt fashion sense either, though isn't really bothered either way and doesn't really care. Men aren't really into fashion the way women are.

Ultimately most men just want a loyal partner and a peaceful life.

It's not politically correct to ay this, but statistically there's a correlation between a woman's number of partners and her loyalty, so he probably wants someone with a lower body count.

In a lot of cases, obesity is a big turn off, and for some guys so are tattoos, short hair and piercings, plus excessive make-up or fake tan but other than that almost anyone can be enough. I mean a good summary of the above is that almost any woman is enough unless she's damaged herself or become damaged by others (or just enjoys/creates drama for fun).

You said the only selfie of you was taken drunk in a bathroom. That's two red flags right there, decent men don't really want women who drink excessively and take photos in bathrooms.

You seem to have definitely improved yourself a bit, but the key is to focus on what's important.

lol if i were you, id take a hard look at my views. they're very sexist and not accurate

 

[Myforevercharlie]

I think you're making things much more complicated than they need to be and perhaps failing to understand men a bit.

A decent/normal man is remarkably simple for the most part.

He doesn't care about your career or how much money you have, he probably doesn't really like your alt fashion sense either, though isn't really bothered either way and doesn't really care. Men aren't really into fashion the way women are.

Ultimately most men just want a loyal partner and a peaceful life.

It's not politically correct to ay this, but statistically there's a correlation between a woman's number of partners and her loyalty, so he probably wants someone with a lower body count.

In a lot of cases, obesity is a big turn off, and for some guys so are tattoos, short hair and piercings, plus excessive make-up or fake tan but other than that almost anyone can be enough. I mean a good summary of the above is that almost any woman is enough unless she's damaged herself or become damaged by others (or just enjoys/creates drama for fun).

You said the only selfie of you was taken drunk in a bathroom. That's two red flags right there, decent men don't really want women who drink excessively and take photos in bathrooms.

You seem to have definitely improved yourself a bit, but the key is to focus on what's important.

Funny...

I'm not skinny, far from it, piercing, tattoos alt fashion. I've dated ' decent ' men.

Maybe you can explain what that is...a decent man?

 

[Aloneandinpain]

Funny...

I'm not skinny, far from it, piercing, tattoos alt fashion. I've dated ' decent ' men.

Maybe you can explain what that is...a decent man?

I'm not saying it's unusual for decent men to date such a person, but they'd be far less likely to commit long-term.

 

[Myforevercharlie]

I'm not saying it's unusual for decent men to date such a person, but they'd be far less likely to commit long-term.

Maybe in your world.

But, what is a decent guy according to you?

 

[Davey40210]

I feel like the whole dating and relationship scene is like society forcing rules on biological behavior and its getting quite messed up.

Like, I suspect we were made to be in a tribal environment where there was one or multiple alpha males that would dominate the rest, with the women sleeping mostly with those males. It was very simple.

This also explains hypergamy perfectly, and I do think it's real. It also explains pre-Christian societies being more like powerful men with harems, and then a bunch of workers or slaves.

Then, societies where the top guys would sleep with all the women, while advanced weaponry would be available, would start having comparatively more societal problems than Christian societies. Sociocultural evolution then benefited Christian societies, which taught that each man should have one woman. Those Christian societies would "win" over the others, because obviously most men in the non-Christian societies would be middle or bottom of the pole, and thus prefer to have one woman (and offspring) over none.

However now we are in the post-Christian world where women sleeping with loads of men is totally fine, while women still have the same biological urges. So we are back to square one. However now, its not so clear who are the top males. To determine who is the alpha male, women are influenced heavily by their friends, family and surroundings, and this changes often over time (is it looks, or money, or intelligence, or "masculinity", game, stability, loyalty, etc). Women and men now also move in different environments where simultaneously a man could be at the top in one environment (club) but at the bottom in another (work). This makes it all very confusing for women to determine the alpha.

Thus we are back to square one except now its much more complex. The sleeping around is more secretive, i.e. women don't talk about it (they often don't understand themselves why they do certain things) and they are shamed if they do. And it makes women constantly doubting and comparing the men they date.

It makes men at the bottom or even middle of the totem pole not understand what is going on. Morals say one thing but reality is another. And it makes them think they don't understand the rules of the game anymore. Men at the top of the pole basically want to procreate with all these women but the marriage and child laws haven't really caught up, so they are also constantly trying to figure out who is the "one woman" they will stay with, while having all these options and likely cheat.

All this is leading to today's society with everyone being completely confused, everybody secretly cheating like hell all the while thinking there is something wrong with them.

Ok will stop preaching now. Feel free to tell me I'm crazy, I'm used to it :-).

BTW OP I am really sorry to go in a bit of an odd direction on your thread here but this is what I thought of when reading your story and some of the comments. I feel for you and do want to tell you that you definitely are enough. You seem like a wonderful person and any man should be lucky to be with you. I definitely agree dating apps are more for hookups. Please don't take this wrongly, but I honestly think that the best way to meet a good man is to simply go to a library or museum or like a normal place, and just smile at a man and strike up a conversation. Easier said than done I know, but that's just what I think. Also, don't trust your friends when they say you are good looking. Likely they care about you and also know you are a beautiful person inside, so they wouldn't tell you if you were ugly on the outside. Trust data points outside of people you know or through experiments. Like if you smile at 10 men and none of them want to talk with you, it probably means you're not so pretty (with emphasis on probably. they could already have a partner or just be too shy).

 

[Aloneandinpain]

Maybe in your world.

But, what is a decent guy according to you?

Someone loyal who doesn't cheat, doesn't have troubling vices, has at least basic hygiene, grooming, fitness etc and just generally wants to take care of his partner and help them (and for them to do the same). Plus he's either talented/gifted/ intelligent or just works hard.

Someone who actually wants a long term relationship, is ready for one and will commit.

Beyond that, you've got high status men with money/looks, and I guess the ultimate goal for women is one of those but also with the qualities I listed.