Discussion Could depression be an evolutionary mechanism?

[Sunset Limited]

We are a social species. Most of us need someone to believe in us, to have our actions validated, in order to continue living. When the social environment we live in ignores us, we become depressed. This has always seemed strange to me. Every mechanism in the human body is there to get us out of a difficult situation. So when we are ignored, why does our lower brain make us depressed rather than sharper and more combative? I believe that body language is more powerful than words. Lying is easy with words but difficult with body language. We are all programmed to be able to tell from body language what someone is actually thinking about us. I believe that the bullying of "weird" children at school is done with the instinct to destroy an individual who is seen as a social outcast. I think this whole chain of intertwined impulsive behaviors is the manifestation of an evolutionary plan. Could it be that the bullying of the slow, quiet, and asocial is aimed at pushing them out of society and continuing to preserve healthy genes? Could this be the reason why the bullied, ignored are suppressed or even encouraged to commit suicide by the lower brain, instead of being encouraged to be sharper and more combative? It wouldn't surprise me if that's really why. Because I know that life can be much wilder and crueler. Opinions?

Sorry for english translated by Google.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Maybe depression evolved as a way to manipulate other members of the tribe to care about the depressed individual more or maybe it somehow makes them seem more attractive thus giving them a higher chance to reproduce.

Maybe it didn't evolve on purpose, but merely emerged as a consequence of heightening awareness and ability to comprehend the futility of it all. Perhaps it's just an unintended consequence of society itself evolving and in ways the human species was not originally designed to comprehend.

Maybe it showed up in the gene pool one day just for the hell of it and was passed down for unrelated reasons.

 

[ameliacecelia]

Very interesting concept. I have nothing to add right now, but hope to read more theories in the comments.

 

[everydayiloveyou]

I think back in the hunter-gatherer times, mental illness wasn't really a bad thing nor a good thing. Just something people have. Because humans are so social and focused on their tribes/social groups, probably back in the day it didn't really lead to outcasting or anything. Tribes were small enough that these people could be cared for -- there's already a lot of evidence that we've taken care of the disabled throughout human history.

Since mental illness was not bad nor good, it still developed and continued to be passed on to new generations. Because of the way society has changed and is structured now, a previously benign issue is now more severe and directly impactful to an individual's daily life and capacity to function within their community.

 

[WearyHSP]

All really interesting thoughts!

There is a true story, told by Marianne Williamson (I heard it in person at a women's event in 2000) about a study of so-called "depressed" chimpanzees. They were determined to be depressed because they hung out at the edge of the group, spent time looking outside their territory and were less social. According to her story, which again I believe is true, the scientists decided to remove the chimps who appeared to be depressed (wondering if a certain amount of happy chimps might replace them.) They left and when they returned something like 6 months later, the entire chimpanzee colony was gone-had died.
It turns out the depressed chimps played a really important role, watching out for predators.

These days most cultures don't appreciate the outliers, those who are different (or in my case really sensitive) or disabled - handicapped, but there's a lot of evidence that those types used to be cared for in earlier human history- before the advent of such selfishness and greed. Oh, and blindness to the value and talents anyone can provide despite their challenges, right? Now it's just instant judgement of other's lack or unworthiness.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

Every mechanism in the human body is there to get us out of a difficult situation.So when we are ignored, why does our lower brain make us depressed rather than sharper and more combative?

IMO, generally, if we're talking about clinical depression, it's an illness, and illnesses are human malfunctions, none of which make sense as an evolutionary advantage - quite the contrary. We're not meant to be depressed, but it happens. I'm not sure clinical depression is always the long-term effect of being outcasted, I'd say I myself am more of a "made more self-reliant and combative" person, rather than "made permanently depressed" kind of person. Not every outcast is depressed about not fitting in.

Could it be that the bullying of the slow, quiet, and asocial is aimed at pushing them out of society and continuing to preserve healthy genes?

Yeah, this part is very likely to be true. Agression towards the ones that are different is the trait we inherited from our animal ancestors among whom "different" likely meant a mutation and casting out or even destroying a mutant before offfsprings are produced was better for the gene pool.

The phenomenon of suicidal thoughts in humans going against what all the basic instincts are dictating as is a very interesting topic indeed.

 

[Sunset Limited]

Great answers guys. All the posts I've read seem to be true.

 

[Zegers]

Society is too fucked up and too complicated to live in if you don't have a good environment/genes

if you have a good family, health and good genes (not predisposed to diseases) life can be just ok

 

[DontplayGod]

Not depression, but personally I believe suicide is the result of either peak evolution or peak awareness of an individual. I believe life is not rational and from a nihlistic viewpoint for someone to accept that there is no point in life and to keep pursuing it is illogical. So I believe that we evolve to hold a suicidal mindset due to the true (what I believe to be true) nihlistic nature of the world.

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

I've heard a few and am making some others up. I don't really read, but for people that like reading the internet could probably provide some actually scientific knowledge about this.

I'll also add that I don't believe that depression is a self-produced illness in the vast majority of cases.


1. The agricultural revolution and its consequences...

In a natural environment people would genuinely support and help someone that's not doing well, since everyone is needed (and people aren't really able to distract themselves from the other tribe members). I am speaking in general terms of course, as you will see. So, displaying that you have problems would actually be useful and you'd get real help (actually be given resources and manpower and shit; sounds crazy now, I know).


2. Weed 'em out, biological imperative.

We have a bunch of ways to signal to others that we're inferior genetic-environmentally, depression is one of them. If it comes down to some being prioritized due to limited resources or sexual partners ("limited" is subjective here), the depressed would go without. How many women would say they get turned on by a man with no willpower, rather than a con(fident) man? Who would be first to eat of the only kill in weeks? The depression will get the less adapted/genetically fortified to forego their own genetic interests, as well as help others take advantage with less risk. It will lead to the less adaptive genes+environments dying off more than if literally no one ever gave up on their genetic interests (bloodbaths for every food/mate shortage). Also, suicide.


3. In-group harmony.

To have some clown/joker in the group is stabilizing, as is having someone that everyone agrees is worse than the rest. Think wolves have this. Kings used to have the harlequins or whatever. Also, it's good for everyone to know who will be first to do a nasty, dangerous task or who is to go without food if there's a problem. Everyone can feel safer and feel better about themselves. The people at the bottom/excess but adaptive males (not that there would be much comparison to today's harem-feudalism) are less likely to rebel/walk out during hard times. Comedic relief, entertainment, punching bag--all-in-one for a low cost. For this to work well, the depression can't really be too severe. So, the depression will wear someone down to where they'll accept being worse off and lower status than everyone else.

"Ridi, Pagliaccio..."


4. Defense against suicide.

Heard this somewhere. As some here would know, it's hard to kill yourself on an empty stomach (fucking 8h garbage). No energy? No death. Especially if you're in a forest or savannah and don't even have ropes and shit.


5. Save energy.

Straightforward idea. Nothing much to gain in your current environment (no mates, no good food, no direction for the tribe)? Then don't run around and waste energy, sometimes waiting is the only move.

"Oh, I can sit at a desk for ten hours a day to just barely survive, and then die a virgin at 80? Let me just lower my caloric expenditure as much as possible by laying down and gaming. Wake me up when there's anything of value around me."


6. Stress-induced depression.

Getting burnt out by worrying/calculating too much. Felt I had to mention it. Obviously just that you need to rest up after long periods of this demanding state of mind. Chess players can burn like 7000 kcals during a tournament or some shit, mental activity can be very demanding physically.


7. Risk mitigation.

Let's say there's actually some stuff you want, but it's extremely dangerous. Then, it's (genetically) better to either get demotivated or stress yourself into depression, as to not get killed/eaten/poisoned/etc.



Feedback well cum.

 

[Judah]

I have a somewhat more disturbing theory, and it is the possibility that depression is an inevitable result of what is possibly the extinction instinct, I do not know if said instinct exists but it is possible that something like that acts because our species has reached so many things that life little by little becomes unnecessary, perhaps antinatalism is included there