Venting [Controversial] Frustrated by people with medical conditions having children

[WhatDoesTheFoxSay?]

I have lupus nephritis. Yesterday I was dismayed to learn that my illness is more serious than I thought. (Lupus nephritis is divided into six different stages based on the results obtained from a kidney biopsy.) For me, renal failure is a very real possibility and, in the event, I have every intention to refuse dialysis. Through a Google search, I found out that death should come in a matter of weeks, and the dying process should be relatively painless. If not, there are (end-of-life) treatment options for the relief of unpleasant symptoms.

With that being said, to my shock surprise it is possible for women with lupus-related CKD requiring dialysis to conceive. Research suggests good outcomes if your symptoms are kept under control, and I am all for freedom of choice and bodily autonomy. However, without trying to sugar-coat anything, I vehemently disapprove of people with potentially debilitating medical conditions, heritable or not, of their choice to procreate.

KIDNEY FAILURE. KIDS. IT BLOWS MY MIND. I'm not a superstitious person, but the way I see it, such adverse events seem like omens of disapproval. Moreover from an ecological standpoint, one or more diseased parents would translate to compromised parental care and hence, reduced offspring fitness. This makes sense, given the rising living costs of today's society. Icing on the cake of the burden of living with a chronic illness.

But that's just my opinion. Maybe I'm just out of touch with society and making a mountain out of a molehill, where what I think of as unsurmountable obstacles are seen as challenges to be overcome by others. For all you know, the conclusions drawn from observing the natural world cannot really be applied to human society. Perhaps, not only do some have the time, energy and money, but also a supportive network for their child(ren) to grow up safe, secure and loved. Last but not least, people do genuinely believe in, and wholeheartedly devote themselves to a kind and merciful Creator God, instead of a cruel and depriving one.

Spoiler: [NSFW] Severely inflamed kidney

 

[summers]

@WhatDoeTheFoxSay? I truly hope your condition doesn't worsen. Would a kidney transplant not help?

And I agree, there are nearly 8 billion people on this planet. If there's a chance you may pass some condition along, please don't have kids.

Well, actually don't have kids regardless.

 

[WhatDoesTheFoxSay?]

@WhatDoeTheFoxSay? I truly hope your condition doesn't worsen. Would a kidney transplant not help?

And I agree, there are nearly 8 billion people on this planet. If there's a chance you may pass some condition along, please don't have kids.

Well, actually don't have kids regardless.

I hope so too. There's no way I can live with myself if I were to take someone else's kidney :(

The biopsy was taken when I was hospitalised at the start of this year. According to my nephrologist, my kidneys were 'severely inflamed'. Got curious the other day so I looked it up. As it turned out ignorance is bliss. Given the proteinuria and hypertension, I'm most likely at stage III/IV. (Not sure if LN = cancer, and stage VI = point of no return) I've been prescribed immunosuppressant drugs and prednisolone, which seem to be doing the trick.

It's been months and feeling okay, I decided to take my chances by skipping my medications (they're expensive even with subsidies) and reducing doses without permission. During my last visit however, the proteinuria levels increased (a little). My nephrologist seemed to know, so he asked me if I've been taking my medications faithfully (seems to be a trend among lupus patients). It wasn't anything serious—more of a wake-up call that I'm still not out of the water—so I apologise if I made it seem that way.

 

[Rogue Proxy]

No, you are not "making a mountain out of a molehill". It's the vast majority of humans that are illogical, out of touch with reality, cowardly of the truth, and unfathomably egotistical, heartless, and mindless.

It's inexcusable to force a living being into existence against their will. But to gamble with genetics, and pass on any condition that creates and exacerbates suffering is abysmally cruel, irresponsible, unempathetic, and stupid. And the cherry pit on top of that immense shit sundae is that breeders won't bat an eyelash over setting up their offspring to die - usually in a slow and agonizing matter.

Anyone who desires to have children - and most importantly, is capable of providing for and supporting them throughout their lives - can adopt or foster. There are hundreds of thousands of orphans in the United States, and millions of them worldwide. Hell, there are countless adults of all ages who don't have any compassionate and supportive family in their lives. Those who can't foster or adopt can still help the youth by volunteering, mentoring, donating money, items, and/or property; ect.

But, no. The average human outright refuses to "love" any child who doesn't share 23 chromosomes with them. Thus, refuting the concept of "unconditional love", and exemplifying the sheer egotism of breeders.

 

[FuneralCry]

To me, it's extremely cruel to bring humans into this world just to suffer for no purpose. I don't understand how anyone could see it as a good thing to bring someone into this world, especially when they have medical conditions. They must be delusional. We were all perfectly fine not existing until we were forced to live and I see life as being completely unnecessary. I think that never being born at all is the best thing possible.

 

[NumbItAll]

I have lupus nephritis. Yesterday I was dismayed to learn that my illness is more serious than I thought. (Lupus nephritis is divided into six different stages based on the results obtained from a kidney biopsy.) For me, renal failure is a very real possibility and, in the event, I have every intention to refuse dialysis. Through a Google search, I found out that death should come in a matter of weeks, and the dying process should be relatively painless. If not, there are (end-of-life) treatment options for the relief of unpleasant symptoms.

With that being said, to my shock surprise it is possible for women with lupus-related CKD requiring dialysis to conceive. Research suggests good outcomes if your symptoms are kept under control, and I am all for freedom of choice and bodily autonomy. However, without trying to sugar-coat anything, I vehemently disapprove of people with potentially debilitating medical conditions, heritable or not, of their choice to procreate.

KIDNEY FAILURE. KIDS. IT BLOWS MY MIND. I'm not a superstitious person, but the way I see it, such adverse events seem like omens of disapproval. Moreover from an ecological standpoint, one or more diseased parents would translate to compromised parental care and hence, reduced offspring fitness. This makes sense, given the rising living costs of today's society. Icing on the cake of the burden of living with a chronic illness.

But that's just my opinion. Maybe I'm just out of touch with society and making a mountain out of a molehill, where what I think of as unsurmountable obstacles are seen as challenges to be overcome by others. For all you know, the conclusions drawn from observing the natural world cannot really be applied to human society. Perhaps, not only do some have the time, energy and money, but also a supportive network for their child(ren) to grow up safe, secure and loved. Last but not least, people do genuinely believe in, and wholeheartedly devote themselves to a kind and merciful Creator God, instead of a cruel and depriving one.

Spoiler: [NSFW] Severely inflamed kidney

View attachment 96925

Sorry about your condition... you are definitely preaching to the choir here. I would take it a step further and say that any chance of chronic suffering is unacceptable, which of course rules out any procreation. I do not think anyone being condemned to a lifetime of torture is ever acceptable collateral damage for whatever it is people think is so wonderful about life. Of course this is a very unpalatable argument to the overwhelming majority of the population. It all makes a lot more sense when you realize it's just DNA doing what it's programmed to do, which is create copies of itself, and the details don't really matter.

 

[Niko66]

I understand why people have children anyways but I agree whole heartededly, it's irresponsible, stupid and apathetic to the potential suffering they are creating. I am sorry for say the parents here but at the same time I am even more sorry for their children.

 

[WhatDoesTheFoxSay?]

@Rogue Proxy Well put, I couldn't have said it better. I just feel like I need to rant to people that might understand where I'm coming from. I for one, see no legitimate reason to bring children into this world, and by that I mean in their best interests, not for purely selfish reasons. The fact that people should adopt more often is something that I wholeheartedly agree with, as there are countless under-privileged children in need of care and protection. Shortly after he was elected Pope Francis said something along the lines of "Catholics don't need to breed 'like rabbits'". Even though he made clear his stance against artificial birth control, he emphasised family planning and promoted 'responsible parenthood'. This was upon his return from the Philippines, after he met with abandoned street children.

But as @NumbItAll mentioned, I'm in an echo chamber, and trying to change people would be to beat a dead horse. Our preference for biological children is just DNA doing its thing. The way in which Cinderella was treated by her stepmother implies that we are more likely to care for those who are related to us by blood. According to the authors of this article, "Adoption is not a cure for infertility, and an adopted child is not a generic replacement for the longed for biological child." Proposed by Professor Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene Theory is so called for a reason.

When I was hospitalised the first time for a lupus flare, one of my wardmates was an old lady with Type 1 diabetes. She had fainted from low blood sugar levels and was brought to the hospital by her son, who also has T1D. Coming from the 'be born, go to school, get employed, marry, have children and die' generation, our elders did what everyone else was doing. They were more or less held at gunpoint to procreate by socio-cultural values, as in our culture it would be considered disrespectful to your ancestors if you do not continue the bloodline. On the other hand, however, with all due respect the newer generations have no excuse, as we have not only the technology, but also more freedom to find and exchange information. So I don't get why people get so much flak for choosing not to procreate in this day and age. Needless to say, I was pleasantly surprised when college students in my country took it upon themselves to educate the masses.

 

[Celerity]

Unless you expect to live an average lifespan and are not an undue burden on your family, you shouldn't have kids if you are ill. Kids are there to be taken care of, not the other way around.

I would encourage you to get a kidney transplant if there is one available. It sounds like a very painful way to go.

 

[WhatDoesTheFoxSay?]

Thank you for your support. Waiting lists aside, I don't think I can live with the guilt of receiving a transplant :( The above (a quick, painless death from kidney failure) is what a quick Google search, with a focus on palliative care, yielded. Though it depends on the individual. Strictly speaking, dialysis itself isn't painful, but going to and fro the centre can be disruptive to daily life.

Kids are there to be taken care of, not the other way around.

Agreed. Unfortunately, for many people, their "Top 10 Reasons to Have Kids" includes having someone to take care of them when they are old. The Chinese even have a saying for children as old age insurance, '养儿防老'.

 

[NumbItAll]

Agreed. Unfortunately, for many people, their "Top 10 Reasons to Have Kids" includes having someone to take care of them when they are old. The Chinese even have a saying for children as old age insurance, '养儿防老'.

Truly baffling. I do not understand how I am a member of the same species as those who believe things like that.