Consciousness may temporarily survive beyond clinical death

[FTL.Wanderer]

I'm sure a lot of people in this community have read the work of Dr. Sam Parnia that argues not only may consciousness survive beyond clinical death, but also that during clinical death, some patients' consciousness experiences their environment in baffling ways medical staff nevertheless verified as true (at least what these clinically dead patients claimed to have seen/heard). Being a US citizen, I was fond of shotguns as my method because their lethality is very high and, I thought, very quick. Reading the work of Parnia and other medical doctors who've recorded other dead (but later resuscitated) patients' inexplicable awareness, I'm now frightened that if consciousness could survive temporarily in pieces of the remaining brain, the perception of time could be traumatizingly distorted so that death may seem like another extended torment.

I'm now researching more peaceful ways out of life. Like SN and the Exit Bag. But there's so little to go on about the dying process cognitively, understandably, that I feel I'm almost at the same place I was when I was a late teen. But now an even scarier place because there's the possibility that experiencing death could be ... unpleasant even after the body appears dead.

Anyone else come upon any other empirical studies on consciousness and post-clinical-death? Have these kinds of questions changed anyone else's plans?

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

Spooky, indeed. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Edit: right after I posted this I had a triple deja-vu. Fml.

 

[ClairyFairy]

Even if you were experiencing life like that it doesn't mean you'd be experiencing pain. It might be not unlike a dream.

 

[TooMuchToBear]

I actually posted a thread about what becomes the soul after suicide yesterday, don't know if you saw it. I understand your concern. But I like to believe that consciousness gets freed from the body and that it returns to something way more pleasant than this reality, where our suffering as human is deeply understood and where we enter a process of healing our soul.

 

[GarageKarate07]

The website(s) for NDERF near death experiences go over this topic a lot. There is only stories from observer experience and most of them seem to be "Christian" or religious but not all of them. It's worth study and looking into IMO. We won't know unless we look and keep an open mind. Will it help us now? Maybe a little. I think we fade into the matrix with all of our dead friends as well but we can't prove it. There's a lot of evidence that this place is only a projection of thought so it would make sense that this might not be home but just a learning ground. Like maybe this is level one and level one really sucks but all you have to do is die to get to level 2? In this method nobody fails level one lol. Couldnt be easier! At the same time level one has a lot of dicks in it.

 

[loopylou]

I believe there is consciousness after death hence ' ghosts'

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Spooky, indeed. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Edit: right after I posted this I had a triple deja-vu. Fml.

I've read Parnia's team's evidence. Their medical study was a multi-site study on multiple patients across several medical centers who satisfied "clinically dead" criteria. Adding to this, there are dozens of studies in neuroscience and medicine that show neural and other gene activity many hours after clinical death. As technology advances, hospitals redefine clinical death. It's reasonable that, not knowing what the mind experiences on death, our evidence base would evolve, as Parnia's studies are contributing to. I agree it's hard to know what must constitute "extraordinary evidence" in this context, but a large multisite experimental study corroborated by other international observational studies, to me, is extraordinary. It's all certainly giving me pause.

I actually posted a thread about what becomes the soul after suicide yesterday, don't know if you saw it. I understand your concern. But I like to believe that consciousness gets freed from the body and that it returns to something way more pleasant than this reality, where our suffering as human is deeply understood and where we enter a process of healing our soul.

This certainly sounds comforting. :)

The website(s) for NDERF near death experiences go over this topic a lot. There is only stories from observer experience and most of them seem to be "Christian" or religious but not all of them. It's worth study and looking into IMO. We won't know unless we look and keep an open mind. Will it help us now? Maybe a little. I think we fade into the matrix with all of our dead friends as well but we can't prove it. There's a lot of evidence that this place is only a projection of thought so it would make sense that this might not be home but just a learning ground. Like maybe this is level one and level one really sucks but all you have to do is die to get to level 2? In this method nobody fails level one lol. Couldnt be easier! At the same time level one has a lot of dicks in it.

I can see how some of these thoughts can make people (like me) feel less scared. Thanks. :)

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

show neural and other gene activity many hours after clinical death.

Well, the claim from the spooky side is that a person would have no neural activity (clinical death should at least go by neural activity and not heartbeat in 2021, lmao) and still pick up on their surroundings, no? So this is evidence against the receiver hypothesis, right?

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Well, the claim from the spooky side is that a person would have no neural activity (clinical death should at least go by neural activity and not heartbeat in 2021, lmao) and still pick up on their surroundings, no? So this is evidence against the receiver hypothesis, right?

Medical "clinical death" stipulates two criteria--no blood circulation (heart has stopped pumping...) & no blood gas exchange. The lack of neural activity can't be used (yet) as a hard criterion for clinical death because all the neurons don't die at the same time and there doesn't seem to be a technology to detect activity of all individual (remaining) brain cells. When the brain loses access to oxygen and sugar from circulating blood, it quickly begins to die. But modern research argues it dies in phases.

This isn't a "spooky" question (about the possible existence of an "afterlife"...) for me but a physiological question of perception after mortal trauma. Before, I thought a violent enough action (like a shotgun in the mouth to the brain) would obliterate all possible perceptions--including both pain and awareness. This was my golden ticket out of a painful life. Now, I'm not so sure. It seems that awareness might survive so long as just some brain cells are still active. As the conscious external observer marks time, this state might last only a few minutes. But to the traumatized brain, it might seem much, much longer. And that's what I'm now frightened about--dying but being aware of and terrified by what's happening. Maybe, even, experiencing a final nightmare due to the violent nature of my death.

I've read every biomedical paper on this matter I can find so I can plan the best way. I'm eager to know more either way if anyone has a citation to a publication I haven't read yet.

 

[WornOutLife]

Well, I bet everything is possible!

As for me, I was in a comma for 2 days and couldn't find my consciousness anywhere.There was nothing. Maybe darkness? Like a sudden blackout and I woke up 2 days laters lol

 

[GarageKarate07]

Medical "clinical death" stipulates two criteria--no blood circulation (heart has stopped pumping...) & no blood gas exchange. The lack of neural activity can't be used (yet) as a hard criterion for clinical death because all the neurons don't die at the same time and there doesn't seem to be a technology to detect activity of all individual (remaining) brain cells. When the brain loses access to oxygen and sugar from circulating blood, it quickly begins to die. But modern research argues it dies in phases.

This isn't a "spooky" question (about the possible existence of an "afterlife"...) for me but a physiological question of perception after mortal trauma. Before, I thought a violent enough action (like a shotgun in the mouth to the brain) would obliterate all possible perceptions--including both pain and awareness. This was my golden ticket out of a painful life. Now, I'm not so sure. It seems that awareness might survive so long as just some brain cells are still active. As the conscious external observer marks time, this state might last only a few minutes. But to the traumatized brain, it might seem much, much longer. And that's what I'm now frightened about--dying but being aware of and terrified by what's happening. Maybe, even, experiencing a final nightmare due to the violent nature of my death.

I've read every biomedical paper on this matter I can find so I can plan the best way. I'm eager to know more either way if anyone has a citation to a publication I haven't read yet.

This is the HARDEST part to understand when it comes to CTB or just death itself. The body HAS to die. The body HAS to be destroyed in some way. The body HAS to break to release the "soul" from this place or plane of existance. If we pass from old age it's organ failure and loss of brain function. If we push that trauma as in jumping, hanging, exit bag, firearms, or medication the body STILL HAS TO BREAK COMPLETLY. Yes, those little cells will pop away like bubbles and those little nerve endings will do the same. This could take up to 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 minutes or more depending on that individual injury and the health of the individual. However it is the quickest way to go. Soldiers die very quickly from just one shot and it doesn't have to always be dead on. It just needs to be enough to collapse the bodies system. It still takes about 15 minutes to pass on. The body will pulse and move around as this happens. With suffocation or cutting off the circulation it's the same thing. You might pass out in only 20 seconds but the body has to eat the remaining sugar and oxygen for a while before then starting to die off. Also being conscious of this could be a factor. If the person is ready they may be able to pull out of the body quicker but that would have to be tested and nobody is going to finance that any time soon. The point being that you will have to go through "birthing pains" to pass on wether it's 50 years from now or tomorrow because you took N or SN. I think it's possible that time might become a different factor in those moments like "taking an eternity" or it might be the "eternal heavenly bliss" before finally crossing to whatever awaits in the place that we cross over to. Maybe this transition spiritually is needed to get to the afterlife? We might not ever know. Definetly these are still the quickest methods to escape this place which is why they are sought after so much in internet searches, AND by people without the internet, AND by people of "inferior countries" who have found themselves being destroyed by our more "benevolent" countries Russia, UK, USA, France, AUS, China and so on. These are people, like us, who either HAVE NO WAY OUT or people who are TIRED OF SEEING THE PAIN IN THE WORLD. To think a person of any age would rather go through that frightening and unfathomable "tunnel of hell" than stay in this monstrous and hurtful "really great world" speaks miles of truth about where we really are today as a world people. I'm talking to these PRO LIFE pieces of shit as well at this point. It is fearful and permanent and violent but how is that any different from what we see out our windows? Where is the safety stone here in this world where we or anyone can call out "home base" or "olly olly oxen free" or whatever the equivilant would be in our respective countries? If there's a chance that we might find this in the afterlife then it's certainly a better gamble that staying here where war and famine and hatred will still be on the menus again tomorrow. That last half hour of pain might be the best half hour of your existance here.

 

[GenesAndEnvironment]

Medical "clinical death" stipulates two criteria--no blood circulation (heart has stopped pumping...) & no blood gas exchange. The lack of neural activity can't be used (yet) as a hard criterion for clinical death because all the neurons don't die at the same time and there doesn't seem to be a technology to detect activity of all individual (remaining) brain cells. When the brain loses access to oxygen and sugar from circulating blood, it quickly begins to die. But modern research argues it dies in phases.

This isn't a "spooky" question (about the possible existence of an "afterlife"...) for me but a physiological question of perception after mortal trauma. Before, I thought a violent enough action (like a shotgun in the mouth to the brain) would obliterate all possible perceptions--including both pain and awareness. This was my golden ticket out of a painful life. Now, I'm not so sure. It seems that awareness might survive so long as just some brain cells are still active. As the conscious external observer marks time, this state might last only a few minutes. But to the traumatized brain, it might seem much, much longer. And that's what I'm now frightened about--dying but being aware of and terrified by what's happening. Maybe, even, experiencing a final nightmare due to the violent nature of my death.

I've read every biomedical paper on this matter I can find so I can plan the best way. I'm eager to know more either way if anyone has a citation to a publication I haven't read yet.

Looks like you're overthinking.

 

[Spiral]

I think it's not impossible that our consciousness lives on for a few minutes after death but I don't believe we would be aware of our body since when we die we disconnect from our bodies. I have read no articles of people experiencing pain during out of body experiences, do any like that exist? I have been knocked out before and my brain found time to dream that I was still standing up and walking when in fact I was in a crumpled heap on the floor. Maybe our brains just finish whatever thought they has started before they go kaput. Like my brain was not aware I had been knocked out so it finished its short walk to my destination without my body. I don't believe a brain that has been blown up with a shotgun would have any neurotransmitter left in tact to carry information but nobody knows for sure. I have kinda accepted that the way out of life is going to be painful and traumatic for a few minutes on the way out but trading a few minutes pain for another 40 years of pain in this life seems like a good deal to me. I will take my few minutes and of course I will be scared because nobody can help but fear the unknown. I really do hope we will not be conscious afterwards though, that would be life a cosmic joke.

 

[stygal]

I'm kind of interested in finding out what will happen when I go. Maybe I have a dreamlike afterthought - everything is possible.
I wouldn't be mad about it as long it is nothing completely painful.
But I guess nobody is able to choose their dreams anyways.
Bottom line: You can overthink all you want but in the end everybody's going to die. No way around it even if you don't ctb - accept the ride.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Looks like you're overthinking.

What am I "overthinking"?

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

Looks like you're overthinking.

What am I "overthinking"? I think it's reasonable to think rigorously about the biggest decisions in life, like ending life. Where's the error?

@Spiral "Maybe our brains just finish whatever thought they has started before they go kaput. "

I wonder about this, too. Which is why I'm reconsidering my originally violent exit plan. Like maybe a more peaceful exit sets the stage for a more peaceful fading away.

I don't want to misread your intention. But on a site like this one, especially, that mightn't be a helpful or appropriate response.