Casinos & hotels AMA

[DarkRange55]

Not sure if this will be a popular topic, but if anybody has any questions about the industries, please feel free to ask!

 

[sserafim]

Do ppl ctb there?

 

[dragonofenvy]

Do you work at one or just have knowledge?

My questions would be:
How many people are repeat customers/gambling addicts?
How many people actually end up winning a sizeable chunk of money?
Do employees get paid well? (I suppose this would depend on whether you're a desk worker, cleaner, dealer, etc.)
Most disgusting thing people do?

 

[Smelly_ballz]

How clean are they?

 

[DarkRange55]

Do ppl ctb there?

Absolutely. Just off the top of my head for the Seattle, Washington area - 3 suicides on the stairs outside the Four Seasons. Hilton in Bellevue has had a lot of suicides. Hyatt Regency in the same city had a flight attendant ctb in their room.
Probably a lot higher at low-end properties…

Do you work at one or just have knowledge?

My questions would be:
How many people are repeat customers/gambling addicts?
How many people actually end up winning a sizeable chunk of money?
Do employees get paid well? (I suppose this would depend on whether you're a desk worker, cleaner, dealer, etc.)
Most disgusting thing people do?

large (branded) hotels rely on repeated hotels owner wants to make money and Hyatt corporate wants repeated business because they want customers all over to only stay at Hyatt which is why they have loyalty programs and stuff (same with casinos). Example: the Snoqualmi Casino - 10 high rollers pay for the salaries of all the staff.

Depends on the game and state laws. Casinos have to pay out it's either 60 or 80% (ifrc) of the money they take in. So sometimes they will pay out their jackpots at the beginning of the month or at the end of the month so they can make more profit as a loophole. Poker you are playing the other players and the dealer just takes a rake and a fee.

Varies a lot. Location, position, union or not, ect. Many benefits (one of the main reasons hotel restaurants are usually more expensive than stand alones). For example, GM's get a lot of perks. Free presidential suite in the hotel to live in (this is negotiated with local ownership), company gas card, company car, groceries can be payed for, ect. A big 4 Diamond rated hotel in an affluent area can pay a GM as one example $240k a year not counting incentives and benefits. Division directors (events, operations, engineering, sales, finance, executive chef, ect) ~$130k. Managers and assistant managers get overworked and would be making a lot more if they were payed hourly instead of salary. Accountants not so much. And casinos, the low level, not so much.

Probably just the sheer addiction and debauchery. A lot of prostitution at both. Some people will turn in paychecks and loans to get chips. Many trashed rooms from parties. Ect.

How clean are they?

Which?
housekeeping has inspectors that go in after the room attendants to check everything to make sure they did everything correctly. If you look closely even at 4 star or 4 diamond properties, you can still find a lot of hair, dust, even socks either in the bathroom, vents or especially behind furniture. Its definitely housekeeper dependent. Some properties are better than others but a big issue right now especially in the hospitality industry is the shortage of labor/staff so they've been using a The biggest challenge right now that hotels are facing is labor. Post-covid its been a disaster. Its improved significantly. But most hotels are staffed by staffing companies. Essentially they hire workers that the hotel couldn't hire because they don't have the proper paperwork. What the hospitality industry is really now lobbying for is to increase the number of work permits - J-1 Visas are hospitality students from other countries is an avenue they use. Its figuring out how they can pay taxes and its done in a legal way. Wage is not always enough to get people because there's just not enough people. In fact the hotels are paying the staffing companies more because they're big and they've got to pay their people. So the cost to the hotel ends up being higher. They prefer to pay it direct.
Room attendants is the largest group in a hotel.

Do you work at one or just have knowledge?

My questions would be:
How many people are repeat customers/gambling addicts?
How many people actually end up winning a sizeable chunk of money?
Do employees get paid well? (I suppose this would depend on whether you're a desk worker, cleaner, dealer, etc.)
Most disgusting thing people do?

forgot to mention: Slot machines have to pay out a certain amount every month by law and if they don't they get fined. Sometimes casinos will take the fine because its a lower percentage than paying out. Thats more common when a casino is remodeling. It's up to the CEO.

Do you work at one or just have knowledge?

My questions would be:
How many people are repeat customers/gambling addicts?
How many people actually end up winning a sizeable chunk of money?
Do employees get paid well? (I suppose this would depend on whether you're a desk worker, cleaner, dealer, etc.)
Most disgusting thing people do?

I've worked in them and also studied them. Tons of books on it and know a lot of people in the industry: big hotel owners, casino chain owner, high-level executives, ect.
I've worked as a commercial building engineer (basically building maintenance and repair mechanic like HVAC, boilers, electrical, plumbing, locks, ect.), housekeeping in various roles including manager, culinary positions, accountant for both, financial analyst for casinos, ect.
Also in commercial real estate brokerage specializing in hotels and as an analyst for an investment company in the hospitality division.

Do you work at one or just have knowledge?

My questions would be:
How many people are repeat customers/gambling addicts?
How many people actually end up winning a sizeable chunk of money?
Do employees get paid well? (I suppose this would depend on whether you're a desk worker, cleaner, dealer, etc.)
Most disgusting thing people do?

But the casino always wins. There is the law of probability and the casinos do everything they can to tilt the odds in their favor.

 

[Erick]

Not sure if this will be a popular topic, but if anybody has any questions about the industries, please feel free to ask!

Are small hotels (3 stars) good to ctb? One could have 24hs privacy while staying on them?

 

[DarkRange55]

Are small hotels (3 stars) good to ctb? One could have 24hs privacy while staying on them?

Occasionally employees may need to enter like if there is a leak from that floor dripping to the floor below or if they need to shut off the water and the valve is located in a ceiling hatch in that room. Maintenance and housekeeping/porters/room service can also get mixed up or receive the wrong room number sometimes.

Examples for leaks: The condensate line for the in room FCU (AC) can come loose and start leaking water.
Another example is one hotel had cut out the trough for drain in concrete floor, soldered together instead of compression, slip joint connections (rubber O ring with nut) for tub drip made them hard copper and soldered them together so it was over ridged with no flexibility and so the rubber went bad after 10 years, cast iron pipe through floor then adapts to copper, concrete will eat copper, the water backs up into the trough and into the bedroom. Basically - Metal cover with gasket then flange and screwed together but the plumbing inspector at the time didn't like it so he had them lead solder the copper pipe instead of having a slip nut so because its so rigid and not flexible anymore they can't get a good seal so they had to use silicone.
This rarely occurs but does happen. Depends on the construction and architecture.

TL;DR
Make sure your DND (do not disturb) sign is on the door and is locked as much as possible (if they have a security latch or if they have a privacy switch or if the deadbolt isn't automatic use those)

 

[Erick]

Occasionally employees may need to enter like if there is a leak from that floor dripping to the floor below or if they need to shut off the water and the valve is located in a ceiling hatch in that room. Maintenance and housekeeping/porters/room service can also get mixed up or receive the wrong room number sometimes.

Examples for leaks: The condensate line for the in room FCU (AC) can come loose and start leaking water.
Another example is one hotel had cut out the trough for drain in concrete floor, soldered together instead of compression, slip joint connections (rubber O ring with nut) for tub drip made them hard copper and soldered them together so it was over ridged with no flexibility and so the rubber went bad after 10 years, cast iron pipe through floor then adapts to copper, concrete will eat copper, the water backs up into the trough and into the bedroom. Basically - Metal cover with gasket then flange and screwed together but the plumbing inspector at the time didn't like it so he had them lead solder the copper pipe instead of having a slip nut so because its so rigid and not flexible anymore they can't get a good seal so they had to use silicone.
This rarely occurs but does happen. Depends on the construction and architecture.

TL;DR
Make sure your DND (do not disturb) sign is on the door and is locked as much as possible (if they have a security latch or if they have a privacy switch or if the deadbolt isn't automatic use those)

Damn, I don't know how people can ctb in hotels with so many things that can go wrong.
Do you think an Airbnb apartment may be better than a hotel?

 

[DarkRange55]

Damn, I don't know how people can ctb in hotels with so many things that can go wrong.
Do you think an Airbnb apartment may be better than a hotel?

95-98% of the time, you won't be disturbed in a hotel. Just don't get a noise complaint (first they call the room, second time the MOD goes up to the room with security).

 

[Erick]

95-98% of the time, you won't be disturbed in a hotel. Just don't get a noise complaint (first they call the room, second time the MOD goes up to the room with security).

I've found a 3 stars hotel with no security guards, just receptionist and clealing service. Do you think it could be a good option or an apartment is safer?

 

[DarkRange55]

I've found a 3 stars hotel with no security guards, just receptionist and clealing service. Do you think it could be a good option or an apartment is safer?

Should be fine in a hotel but if you want to be super sure then an apartment building is likely to less random intrusion.

 

[Erick]

Should be fine in a hotel but if you want to be super sure then an apartment building is likely to less random intrusion.

I've read that apartment owner can enter while you are there, so they may find you unconscious.
Do housekeepers knock on your door at morning if you book a hotel for 3 or more days?

 

[Forever Sleep]

Do you know if hotels carry insurance for things like suicide?

Do they really provide a bible in every room to deter suicide? I heard that once.

Are some people banned if they keep winning in casinos? Do they need a legitimate reason to ban people?

Thanks for offering to answer questions.

 

[DarkRange55]

Do you know if hotels carry insurance for things like suicide?

Do they really provide a bible in every room to deter suicide? I heard that once.

Are some people banned if they keep winning in casinos? Do they need a legitimate reason to ban people?

Thanks for offering to answer questions.

I'll have to double check on the first one. My understanding is no but I will double deck and get back to you on that. But my understanding is no.

Gideons International donates Bibles to hotels. It's a hospitality practice because travelers can feel lonely and isolated so it is for comfort. The practice has been in decline.

The hospitality (and gaming industry by extension) retain the right to refuse service. Many high-rollers are actually welcomed because of how much money they bring in. A casino my friend works at for example: 10 high rollers pay for the salaries of all the staff. Even though the biggest jackpot is $50,000, yet these high-rollers have millions in their bank account. To get the "black card" status (every casino has a different name like diamond or platinum, ect) these card holders have to spend $1 million at that casino every three months. Gold card holders (one level down) have to spend $500k every quarter.
The second biggest revenue stream for casinos is gamblers recycling their winnings, sometimes referred to as "churning" (this can have a couple definitions in gambling). So say you win $1,000. A lot of people will then gamble that $1,000 to try and double it. Or they will then get a hotel room at the same resort, see a show, go out to dinner, buy nice drinks, get a limo service, ect. The casino offers all these amenities to help keep the money in-house.
However, some casinos have banned people. They do have anti-card counting techniques but that can be a reason. Some high-profile people like Dania White got banned for winning too much. So it does happen.

 

[DarkRange55]

Do you know if hotels carry insurance for things like suicide?

Do they really provide a bible in every room to deter suicide? I heard that once.

Are some people banned if they keep winning in casinos? Do they need a legitimate reason to ban people?

Thanks for offering to answer questions.

So I'm still working on getting a more thorough answer. But for the moment:

In most cases, hotels are not held liable for suicides that occur on their premises. Similar to property managers, hotels are generally not considered responsible for the intentional and self-inflicted acts of individuals. However, there could be exceptions depending on the circumstances. For instance, if the hotel was aware of a dangerous condition on the property that contributed to the suicide and failed to take appropriate measures to address it, they might be found liable. Each case is unique. Suicide is generally seen as an unforeseen act is my understanding.

Hotels also have to do wellness checks if you refuse housekeeping service after a few days. Also if the guest told the staff something like, "hey I'm going to kill myself, I'll see you tomorrow." And the staff didn't respond, then it could be seen legally as negligence.

There's a mall in my area where someone jumped and ownership payed off the family in an out of court settlement to avoid publicity.

Motel Has No Duty to Prevent Guest's Suicide, Massachusetts Appeals Court Rules

A motel and its employees have no duty to prevent a guest's suicide even when family members warn that the guest is a suicide risk. A Massachusetts Court

www.insurancejournal.com

I'll get a more thorough answer for you. I didn't forget about your question.


Also yes, a lot of people kill themselves at resorts in Vegas because of gambling losses.

 

[sserafim]

So I'm still working on getting a more thorough answer. But for the moment:

In most cases, hotels are not held liable for suicides that occur on their premises. Similar to property managers, hotels are generally not considered responsible for the intentional and self-inflicted acts of individuals. However, there could be exceptions depending on the circumstances. For instance, if the hotel was aware of a dangerous condition on the property that contributed to the suicide and failed to take appropriate measures to address it, they might be found liable. Each case is unique. Suicide is generally seen as an unforeseen act is my understanding.

Hotels also have to do wellness checks if you refuse housekeeping service after a few days. Also if the guest told the staff something like, "hey I'm going to kill myself, I'll see you tomorrow." And the staff didn't respond, then it could be seen legally as negligence.

There's a mall in my area where someone jumped and ownership payed off the family in an out of court settlement to avoid publicity.

Motel Has No Duty to Prevent Guest's Suicide, Massachusetts Appeals Court Rules

A motel and its employees have no duty to prevent a guest's suicide even when family members warn that the guest is a suicide risk. A Massachusetts Court

www.insurancejournal.com

I'll get a more thorough answer for you. I didn't forget about your question.


Also yes, a lot of people kill themselves at resorts in Vegas because of gambling losses.

Why are people addicted to gambling? How is it addictive?

 

[4am]

Why are people addicted to gambling? How is it addictive?

"Fact: 90% of gambling addicts quit right before they're about to hit it big"

 

[DarkRange55]

"Fact: 90% of gambling addicts quit right before they're about to hit it big"

The statement that "90% of gambling addicts quit right before they're about to hit it big" is often circulated, but it lacks credible evidence and is considered a myth or anecdotal. Gambling addiction is a serious issue with complex psychological factors, and there's no evidence to suggest such a pattern exists.

The second biggest revenue stream for casinos is gamblers recycling their winnings, sometimes referred to as "churning" (this can have a couple definitions in gambling). So say you win $1,000. A lot of people will then gamble that $1,000 to try and double it. Or they will then get a hotel room at the same resort, see a show, go out to dinner, buy nice drinks, get a limo service, ect. The casino offers all these amenities to help keep the money in-house.

The reality is many gambling addicts hit jackpots many times or they wouldn't be hooked to gambling. The problem is that for gambling addicts, wins are just future losses. They just subconsciously view it as more fuel to continue gambling. It's about the feeling you get from the anticipation.
The house always wins. There is the law of probability and the casinos do everything they can to tilt the odds in their favor.

Depends on the game and state laws. Slot machines have to pay out it's either 60 or 90% (ifrc) of the money they take in by law.

 

[4am]

The statement that "90% of gambling addicts quit right before they're about to hit it big" is often circulated, but it lacks credible evidence and is considered a myth or anecdotal. Gambling addiction is a serious issue with complex psychological factors, and there's no evidence to suggest such a pattern exists.

The second biggest revenue stream for casinos is gamblers recycling their winnings, sometimes referred to as "churning" (this can have a couple definitions in gambling). So say you win $1,000. A lot of people will then gamble that $1,000 to try and double it. Or they will then get a hotel room at the same resort, see a show, go out to dinner, buy nice drinks, get a limo service, ect. The casino offers all these amenities to help keep the money in-house.

The reality is many gambling addicts hit jackpots many times or they wouldn't be hooked to gambling. The problem is that for gambling addicts, wins are just future losses. They just subconsciously view it as more fuel to continue gambling. It's about the feeling you get from the anticipation.
The house always wins. There is the law of probability and the casinos do everything they can to tilt the odds in their favor.

Depends on the game and state laws. Slot machines have to pay out it's either 60 or 90% (ifrc) of the money they take in by law.

yeah it's just a meme. i was just too lazy to insert picture originally

 

[DarkRange55]

Why are people addicted to gambling? How is it addictive?

Casinos use many strategies. Would you like me to give some examples or are you asking about the underlying behavior?

yeah it's just a meme. i was just too lazy to insert picture originally

Lol

yeah it's just a meme. i was just too lazy to insert picture originally

I don't know a ton of memes haha

 

[sserafim]

Casinos use many strategies. Would you like me to give some examples or are you asking about the underlying behavior?

Lol

Both

 

[Forever Sleep]

So I'm still working on getting a more thorough answer. But for the moment:

In most cases, hotels are not held liable for suicides that occur on their premises. Similar to property managers, hotels are generally not considered responsible for the intentional and self-inflicted acts of individuals. However, there could be exceptions depending on the circumstances. For instance, if the hotel was aware of a dangerous condition on the property that contributed to the suicide and failed to take appropriate measures to address it, they might be found liable. Each case is unique. Suicide is generally seen as an unforeseen act is my understanding.

Hotels also have to do wellness checks if you refuse housekeeping service after a few days. Also if the guest told the staff something like, "hey I'm going to kill myself, I'll see you tomorrow." And the staff didn't respond, then it could be seen legally as negligence.

There's a mall in my area where someone jumped and ownership payed off the family in an out of court settlement to avoid publicity.

Motel Has No Duty to Prevent Guest's Suicide, Massachusetts Appeals Court Rules

A motel and its employees have no duty to prevent a guest's suicide even when family members warn that the guest is a suicide risk. A Massachusetts Court

www.insurancejournal.com

I'll get a more thorough answer for you. I didn't forget about your question.


Also yes, a lot of people kill themselves at resorts in Vegas because of gambling losses.

Thank you for looking into it. That's so kind of you.

I was actually not so much thinking of moral liabilty in terms of insurance and possibly being sued. I'd imagine most suicides would be attributed to the individual acting on their own. I was actually thinking more along the lines of financial loss. The room the person was in would no doubt be out of action while an investigation took place and then, would presumably need a deep clean. Plus, if word got around, I wonder if people would avoid the hotel or room. I wonder if hotels are covered for that.

 

[Ambivalent1]

Is the mafia still active there?

 

[DarkRange55]

Is the mafia still active there?

TL;DR - No, they are all corporate. There might be some no-name holdovers quietly and legally running some inconsequential casinos or card rooms but they're legit. Jack Binion was probably the last of them. Howard Hugh's began the move to corporate ownership when he bought six of the old hotels in the 70s a couple in Reno and two in Lake Tahoe.
The casinos in Vegas may have mob origins but now its on the level. Like the CEO of the casino and the top executives may have been mafia bosses and made money in drug running or whatever and they give money to people to spend on the floor. Drop $100 or $1,000 in a slot machine and play 5 times and cash out. Now its gambling winnings even though they lost $5. Its no longer considered dirty money = money laundering.

The IRS watches casinos VERY closely because there is so much money laundering from the outside. A lot of patrons still wash money in casinos.
Some people were laundering at one of the tribal casinos, a few million dollars over the course of a year, a few years ago in my home town (not Vegas) and the FBI came in. They were sticking $1,000 in slots and then spinning 1-5 times then cashing out to wash it. Management actually tells all employees things to watch for that might indicate this.


Long part about history, read if interested:

There's a lot of misconceptions. First, the mob did not create Las Vegas. It began as a railroad stop as a place to get water, and Las Vegas literally means the Meadows. Gambling became legal in 1931 during the construction of the Hoover Dam. The Strip began in 1940. The first mob influence came years later. The term influence is much more accurate than control because they never ran Las Vegas. They held visible sway but it was never like Chicago during Prohibition where they held power over alcohol and gambling and payed off high-ranking officials and law enforcement. Also gaming and alcohol were lawful and constituted part of the local economy. Some mob influence, for the most part was simply former gangsters going legit. There was less crime in the 1950s and 60s simply because they were less people. The spike in crime in 1990's was not due to the mafia leaving Las Vegas, but was actually due to a national trend as de-industrialization brought economic hardship. The mob never had enough sway in Vegas to control crime. But they were responsible for at least a few murders themselves.
Another misconception is that mobsters power was static, and then just switched out for corporate power. In reality they grew in power over time and shifted with the zeitgeist, and then steadily lost power as corporations gained more. It's a combination of factors that resulted in their downfall.
Vegas was becoming a gambling mecca before gangsters had their influence. It was an experiment in revenue to make some taxes during the Great Depression. Organized crime got its head start on managing casinos through prohibition because many speak-easies also had gambling. This made people miss-associate any legal gambling with its illegal counterpart.
An LA entrepreneur and gambler Billy Wilkerson started The Flamingo resort but ran into financial troubles so he turned to mobster Ben "Bugsy" Siegel who established illegal gambling in nearby LA who brought a race wire service to downtown Vegas and purchased a share in the El Cortez in 1940. So he bought Wilkerson out of the Flamingo. He was a terrible manager and embezzled possibly a million dollars. When the resort failed to make money, the national crime syndicate assassinated him and took it over within hours. So it became the first mobbed up casino in 1947. To run the casino, they brought in old mob bosses with expertise in illegal gambling but kept everything else in the business free of mob interest. This made a lot of money. Soon other criminal organizations sought ownership in resorts in The Strip. The Desert Inn was built on The Strip and also had mob influence. Its funding came from a conglomeration of interests, most of which were private wealth. But a former member of the Cleveland Road Gang, Moe Dailitz, lead the creation. Though he insisted for the rest of his life that he was longer associated with the gang. He became known as Mr. Las Vegas for running the DI. The senate could not prove an actual criminal connection.

Nevada did take notice of the Senate's investigation and threatened national legislation prohibiting gambling which by then was the greatest money maker for the state. So Nevada sought to further regulate who got gaming licenses. Part of the 1931 legalization required that all business owners and ranking managers were required to get a license. Because of the strict limitations corporations couldn't afford to go through licensure which was needed for all of their shareholders. Meaning syndicates were the preformed form of casino ownership for the next few decades. Individuals couldn't bring enough capital to start a resort and corporations were too unwieldy. So people partnered in investment forming syndicates. As long as the official syndicate owners were licensed, they could run casinos.
In 1955 they created the Gaming Control Board to oversee tax collection and licensure. Four years later they created the Gaming Commission which became the final arbiter who could get a license. The commission created a list of known criminals, who could not get a license known as the Black Book. Only having 35 names on it currently. It absolutely hindered the mob's ability to gain controlling interest in these syndicates that ran Las Vegas. They had to practice secret ownership where front men were licensed, but actually funded by mob money. Two years later, the federal attorney general, Robert F Kennedy, took up a crusade against organized crime. Creating an FBI strike force investigating mob ties. They needed a new law to prosecute and that came with the Racketeer, Influence, and Corrupt Organizations Act or RICO in 1970. It still took a decade before anyone faced prosecution.

Benny Binion had been a notoriously murderous moonshiner in Texas, began a gambling hall Binion's Casino. He lost his license quickly for tax evasion that sent him to Leavenworth in 1953. His family members ran Binion's Horseshoe instead. Both the Sahara and Sands resorts started in 1952, both having a few secret mob ties. The Fremont opened three years later, Vegas had unprecedented growth. Mon influence hit its apogee with the creation of the Riviera in 1955. The Tropicana in 1957 was the biggest resort in the world until another Las Vegas hotel, Caesars, beat it a decade later. It's impossible to know how many of the managers for the syndicates that ran these resorts were simply independently wealthy people or fronts for the mob.

The way front men managed to get money back to their shadow ownership was through a bunch of techniques called the skim. Essentially they'd find a way of secreting money away from their casinos to pay dividends owed to the real owners back east. How much the mob influenced day-to-day operations of casinos is a matter of debate. These were professionals that excelled at casino management that prior to WWII, the only way you could become good at it was through illegal gambling. Which is why so many came from a mob related background. Nobody knows how many syndicate owners were tied to the mob but it was certainly less than a quarter overall. In 1960, Jimmy Hoffa was the president of the Teamsters Union and worked with the mafia to bolster the union. They laundered money through a pension fund, giving the union a substantial ability to pay for their retirees. But the mob viewed this more as a bank than simply exerting influence. They required the fund to invest in numerous projects throughout the US, especially Las Vegas. Clean money from the union's pension fund was actually another investment from the mob. The Chicago outfit was the largest part of this teamster's plot, they exerted the most influence. When the first mega resort began in 1966 (Caesar's Palace), it had teamster's funding.
In 1967, Howard Hughes bought the Desert Inn. Dalitz continued to manage it begrudgingly but this set precedent. That year Nevada passed the Corporate Gaming Act because of Hughes unwillingness to show up in person to get his gaming license in Carson City. Theo act allowed corporations to not need all of their investors to be licensed. Only officers. Hughes Corp and other companies bought up other properties Kirk Kerkorian started a temporary building boom under corporate funding. The mob simply didn't have the money that corporations did. In many ways they were just priced out of influencing Las Vegas. The corporate area began, but the mob adjusted like it always had. They still influence through syndicates in the Riviera, Tropicana, Flamingo, Aladdin, and Caesar's Palace. But they needed a way to compete. So the teamster's pension fund pooled money to invest in a corporation. This was A.R.G. Enterprises ran by front man Allen R. Gliek. He was a real estate investor from San Diego and the teamster's funding went through enough shell companies that their stake in A.R.G. Ent. couldn't be ascertained. They quickly bought up the Hacienda, Fremont, Marina, and Star Dust. As the mob lost more control to the corporations they sought to exert even more through A.R.G. To consolidate power they sent two operates to control of operations and ensure the skim. First was Frank "Lefty" Rosenthal who previously ran sports books in Vegas. So he ran the day-to-day operations of the Star Dust and oversaw the other three. The Gaming Commission kept Rosenthal from gaining a license. But he refused to step down, finding creative ways of staying in control. He frequently changed his title but these issues would come to a head later. The other man the mob sent was Tony "the Ant" Spilotro, taking over regional loan sharking activities, he was basically the mob's enforcer. At least three Las Vegas murders are associated with him and several out of state ones. Theo Rivera and Aladdin remained as syndicates associated with the mob while the four resorts of A.R.G. kept mob influence.

A tough new leader took over nicknamed "Clean Face" because he refused to bribe. This was Harry Reid. In 1977 he was determined to end influence through his commission. In 1978, two syndicate casinos became targets of FBI investigations. The Strawman Probe which was a wire tap. Both syndicates that owned the Aladdin and Tropicana were ordered to divest and create new corporate ownership schemes and even ordered the closure of the Aladdin by suspending its license. But a corrupt judge (Harry E. Claiborne), countered that in a couple of days. They also attacked the local lawyer that the mob was turning to, Oscar Goodman.

During the Aladdin's divestiture, a huge fracture developed regarding who would take over. Johnny Carson had been friends with Wayne Newton who'd later take on Dalit's moniker of Mr. Las Vegas but both competed for ownership of the new corporate Aladdin. Newton won but got accused of mob ties by the same news network that Carson was on and eventually gave up. Even Donald Trump tried to get in on these fire sales. Mobbed up syndicates were gone but that left A.R.G. The wiretap cast suspicion on them so the FBI began looking into them. The FBI landed RICO charges on 15 mobsters in association with it in 1983. They placed a bunch of them in the Black Book. And basically ended A.R.G as a corporation and the mob longer controlled any casinos. The mob first started their demise by simply selling to corporations . Then were out priced. And eventually were eradicated through legal measures. In the 1990's they demolished many of the casinos associated with mob influence.

 

[DarkRange55]

Thank you for looking into it. That's so kind of you.

I was actually not so much thinking of moral liabilty in terms of insurance and possibly being sued. I'd imagine most suicides would be attributed to the individual acting on their own. I was actually thinking more along the lines of financial loss. The room the person was in would no doubt be out of action while an investigation took place and then, would presumably need a deep clean. Plus, if word got around, I wonder if people would avoid the hotel or room. I wonder if hotels are covered for that.

It's not necessarily the hotel's liability. They do carry liability insurance that should cover them in the event someone sued them for that. They try to keep it out of the news but there aren't any NDE's signed. They put the room out of order and have the police invest then have a third party cleaning service come in and deep clean. Sometimes they have to repaint (blood splatter).

Rooms can be OOO or OOS - out of order vs out of service. Out of order is they cannot be rented and OOS rooms can be rented as an absolute last resort.

Ownership and insurance never cover the cost of an OOS or OOO room's lost revenue. Like murder/suicide/not reaching full occupancy, ect. There is insurance coverage at a threshold (level of damage and dollar cost similar to your car insurance) for physical damage and repairs to a room (example: a pipe breaks and destroys the room).

Suicides aren't reported often in the news unless it's something particularly grim like a murder-suicide. Its so common at hotels so the family doesn't have to find them.

The owner pays the operating expenses. So for example, hotels that stayed open during covid and lost money, the local ownership had to pay the expenses and cover the losses. Lights, heat, water, gas, staff, insurance, taxes, ect. It was also their decision to stay open or close and if they stayed open to adjust their rates. So just an example, the three big Hyatts in the city near me all closed immediately. They have the same owner. The big Hyatt at the end of the lake which has different ownership stayed open but cut their room rates a ton and did well but also this attracted bad clientele so they had problems with that. The other big Hyatt in the affluent city across the lake (again, different owner) operated at a big loss (they are still trying to recoup) but didn't cut their rates because of the clients and prestige.

Most big hotels companies these days use an asset-light strategy and are functionally management companies splitting operations and branding (their side) with real estate (local ownership side). This is actually distinct from franchising. There are managed properties, franchised properties, corporate owned properties, leased properties, ect. But managed is the most common for big hotel companies (Starwood, Hilton, Hyatt, ect). Most motels are franchised.

Followup on your last question- one of the most affluent cities in the US, the three big 4 Diamond hotels down there, across all three they average 10 a year.

Does that answer your question?

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's not necessarily the hotel's liability. They do carry liability insurance that should cover them in the event someone sued them for that. They try to keep it out of the news but there aren't any NDE's signed. They put the room out of order and have the police invest then have a third party cleaning service come in and deep clean. Sometimes they have to repaint (blood splatter).

Rooms can be OOO or OOS - out of order vs out of service. Out of order is they cannot be rented and OOS rooms can be rented as an absolute last resort.

Ownership and insurance never cover the cost of an OOS or OOO room's lost revenue. Like murder/suicide/not reaching full occupancy, ect. There is insurance coverage at a threshold (level of damage and dollar cost similar to your car insurance) for physical damage and repairs to a room (example: a pipe breaks and destroys the room).

Suicides aren't reported often in the news unless it's something particularly grim like a murder-suicide. Its so common at hotels so the family doesn't have to find them.

The owner pays the operating expenses. So for example, hotels that stayed open during covid and lost money, the local ownership had to pay the expenses and cover the losses. Lights, heat, water, gas, staff, insurance, taxes, ect. It was also their decision to stay open or close and if they stayed open to adjust their rates. So just an example, the three big Hyatts in the city near me all closed immediately. They have the same owner. The big Hyatt at the end of the lake which has different ownership stayed open but cut their room rates a ton and did well but also this attracted bad clientele so they had problems with that. The other big Hyatt in the affluent city across the lake (again, different owner) operated at a big loss (they are still trying to recoup) but didn't cut their rates because of the clients and prestige.

Most big hotels companies these days use an asset-light strategy and are functionally management companies splitting operations and branding (their side) with real estate (local ownership side). This is actually distinct from franchising. There are managed properties, franchised properties, corporate owned properties, leased properties, ect. But managed is the most common for big hotel companies (Starwood, Hilton, Hyatt, ect). Most motels are franchised.

Followup on your last question- one of the most affluent cities in the US, the three big 4 Diamond hotels down there, across all three they average 10 a year.

Does that answer your question?

Hmm, interesting. Thank you. I guess maybe then, they guesstimate how many rooms might be out of servive and other periods they may not be operating at full capacity and bump up the overall prices to cover.

Actually, councidentally, I've been watching the Netflix documentary on the tragic Elisa Lam case at the Cecil Hotel. I wonder if some hotels expect to have more problematic behaviour than others. Some get quite a reputation...

 

[DarkRange55]

Hmm, interesting. Thank you. I guess maybe then, they guesstimate how many rooms might be out of servive and other periods they may not be operating at full capacity and bump up the overall prices to cover.

Actually, councidentally, I've been watching the Netflix documentary on the tragic Elisa Lam case at the Cecil Hotel. I wonder if some hotels expect to have more problematic behaviour than others. Some get quite a reputation...

There are many factors that go into room rates for hotels, and a lot of times they have to extrapolate on previous years. But it's a multi variant equation. Basically the Director of revenue and the revenue analyst and sometimes with some input from ownership have to calculate room prices. One of many factors is what the competing hotels will charge and another is their location and another is demand like if there is a convention going on. Another one is occupancy rates. The higher the occupancy or higher compression as they referred to it in reservations, the more that they can charge because demand is higher. But there are other factors, too.

Basically, they will charge what the market will allow. So, even if it is a slow season, they typically don't really lower their rates a whole lot generally speaking. Again, they will charge with the market will allow. Price elasticity.

They basically operate similar to airlines where they have to extrapolate and project so occasionally they can actually oversell because one of the factors is a certain percentage of guests will be no-shows, and a certain percentage will be cancellations some rooms will be out of service or out of order.

In the industry, it's all about heads in beds.

Some hotels also have contracts with airline companies for pilots and flight attendants. This is done by the individual hotel. So it's also harder to reach full capacity that is an operational challenge in and of itself in that situation. Because it's harder to turn those rooms because they leave at odd hours.

Hmm, interesting. Thank you. I guess maybe then, they guesstimate how many rooms might be out of servive and other periods they may not be operating at full capacity and bump up the overall prices to cover.

Actually, councidentally, I've been watching the Netflix documentary on the tragic Elisa Lam case at the Cecil Hotel. I wonder if some hotels expect to have more problematic behaviour than others. Some get quite a reputation...

Depending on the hotel/motel they could be acting more like an apartment than an actual hotel. It's easier for people with low income

and/or bad credit to stay there than struggle with all of the bills of maintaining a household. Hotels and motels are big right now for the vulnerable who don't have good credit and money saved up. To get an apt you need good credit, first and last months rent and security deposit. It's more expensive to stay in a motel but you can pay daily or weekly with no credit card, often. There are a few hotels in my area that offer monthly rates.

A town of 6,000 people, it has 4 motels/hotels. One is by a popular wedding venue and therefore gets most of its business when people are getting married. Another is basically a glorified apartment. One has business when the town held events. And the last has hourly rates for rooms, lots of affairs going on there I'm sure.
I can go into much greater detail if you're curious