Carbon monoxide question? 2 stroke vs 4 stroke

[aguy]

Hi all, i wanted to ask, because i couldn't find definitive answers on the internet. Which engine produces the most monoxide? Do the old style 2 stroke carburated engines for leaf blowers/ weedwackers produce more carbon monoxide than the 4 stroke ones? I read i 1 study that they usually produce about double the carbon monoxide per cc of engine displacement. So a 70cc 2 stroke engine produces as much Co as a 140cc small generator engine. Has anyone tested it with a Carbon monoxide monitor? A engine for a weedwacker/grass trimmer that is 2 stroke weighs about 10 pounds, and the 4 stroke ones weigh 13 pounds which is much easier to carry and use than a 4 stroke generator which can weigh like 80 pounds. My setup that i have tested used a 4 stroke engine that is 200cc and it produced 2000 ppm in around 13 minutes in a small enclosed space of about 1000 cubic feet. I'm afraid that it's not fast enough. Also i want to report that i have no problem with burning eyes from the exhaust fumes like some have said here. The engine just produces a mildly unpleasant smell and sound but almost no smoke. Also i feel the effects really fucking fast! I always vent the room and enter it when the levels go 200ppm.The first tests i thought, oh it's just probably a placebo effect, but after several tests, every time just entering to stop the generator and later, cleaning my setup i always get lightheaded, and just feel weak. It's crazy how fast it works. If you put some noice cancelling headphones and it's literally magic how you just suddenly become light headed.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Welcome to the forum. Generators/Engines are not recommended for this method. However, they can work.

Here's the Megathread and a guide:

Carbon monoxide megathread

Hi, this will be the megathread for the carbon monoxide method. I have some questions about the charcoal method, is it a simple method to do? Like buying charcoal and setting it or there is some steps and setup to follow The ppeh gives low rating for preparation but good rating for...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Charcoal method advice

Hi, I somehow came across this site after some furious google searching over the weekend. After trying and failing other methods over the past month I came across back to the idea of carbon monoxide and decided to dig further into charcoal burning, of which there are plenty discussions on this...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[aguy]

Welcome to the forum. Generators/Engines are not recommended for this method. However, they can work.

Here's the Megathread and a guide:

Carbon monoxide megathread

Hi, this will be the megathread for the carbon monoxide method. I have some questions about the charcoal method, is it a simple method to do? Like buying charcoal and setting it or there is some steps and setup to follow The ppeh gives low rating for preparation but good rating for...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Charcoal method advice

Hi, I somehow came across this site after some furious google searching over the weekend. After trying and failing other methods over the past month I came across back to the idea of carbon monoxide and decided to dig further into charcoal burning, of which there are plenty discussions on this...

sanctioned-suicide.net

Thank you, i know that they are not recommended but it is the method i prefer. I think 2 engines that are the 2 stroke type will be best if they put out lots of co. They will also weight less than half of a single generator.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Hi all, i wanted to ask, because i couldn't find definitive answers on the internet. Which engine produces the most monoxide? Do the old style 2 stroke carburated engines for leaf blowers/ weedwackers produce more carbon monoxide than the 4 stroke ones? I read i 1 study that they usually produce about double the carbon monoxide per cc of engine displacement. So a 70cc 2 stroke engine produces as much Co as a 140cc small generator engine. Has anyone tested it with a Carbon monoxide monitor? A engine for a weedwacker/grass trimmer that is 2 stroke weighs about 10 pounds, and the 4 stroke ones weigh 13 pounds which is much easier to carry and use than a 4 stroke generator which can weigh like 80 pounds. My setup that i have tested used a 4 stroke engine that is 200cc and it produced 2000 ppm in around 13 minutes in a small enclosed space of about 1000 cubic feet. I'm afraid that it's not fast enough. Also i want to report that i have no problem with burning eyes from the exhaust fumes like some have said here. The engine just produces a mildly unpleasant smell and sound but almost no smoke. Also i feel the effects really fucking fast! I always vent the room and enter it when the levels go 200ppm.The first tests i thought, oh it's just probably a placebo effect, but after several tests, every time just entering to stop the generator and later, cleaning my setup i always get lightheaded, and just feel weak. It's crazy how fast it works. If you put some noice cancelling headphones and it's literally magic how you just suddenly become light headed.

1000 cubic feet was that a shed or moving truck.? How did you test the co levels?

Can you put a link to the kind of weed Wacker you tested that produced 2000 ppm co?

Using 5 weedwackers at the same time would produce 10,000 ppm co

if you go into a smaller space 500 cubic feet then 20,000 ppm .

can add large beach balls to enclosed area to reduce volume of air , make a smaller space to increase co concentration

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Yeah, others have been successful with generators. One such instance was even made into a movie - Conrad & Michelle. You can search it out and watch it on the Internet. It's going to, most likely, be a fairly uncomfortable way to go. The fumes are going to be nasty to breathe and it's going to take a while. You'll probably end up getting a major painful headache and nausea, perhaps even vomiting, since you'll have to breathe in the by-products of combustion along with the CO produced. It won't be anywhere nearly as fast as using charcoal in a small, enclosed place and getting the CO level extremely high whereby you would go unconscious in a few minutes.


Here's something to keep in mind if you're purchasing a newer generator:


Carbon Monoxide Shutdown Technology

Many modern generators now come equipped with carbon monoxide shutdown technology. This technology utilizes sensors that can detect elevated CO levels around the machine and automatically shut it down when they reach dangerous concentrations. These advancements can significantly reduce the risk of CO poisoning but should not be seen as a complete substitute for proper generator usage. The fact that the generator will shut off after it has produced dangerous levels of CO already demonstrates a dangerous situation.

Source: https://enviroliteracy.org/how-much-carbon-monoxide-does-a-generator-produce/

 

[aguy]

1000 cubic feet was that a shed or moving truck.? How did you test the co levels?

Can you put a link to the kind of weed Wacker you tested that produced 2000 ppm co?

Using 5 weedwackers at the same time would produce 10,000 ppm co

if you go into a smaller space 500 cubic feet then 20,000 ppm .

can add large beach balls to enclosed area to reduce volume of air , make a smaller space to increase co concentration

Thank you that is very smart to reduce the volume. I used a newer lawn mower that i used that should be less poluting. I'm not next to the mower but i'm pretty sure it's this one Honda HRX217VKA. It has a 200cc engine. I don't know how much carbon monoxide a weed wacker produces. That's why i posted the thread to ask about. I tested the levels with a CO monitor. It tops out at 2000, i'm sure it probably will get to 4000 in 30 minutes but i can't test that with my meter.

 

[restlesseyes]

I' don't have knowledge on this topic but I do love dirt bikes and I know 2 strokes emit much more smoke then a 4 stroke if that helps

 

[aguy]

Yeah, others have been successful with generators. One such instance was even made into a movie - Conrad & Michelle. You can search it out and watch it on the Internet. It's going to, most likely, be a fairly uncomfortable way to go. The fumes are going to be nasty to breathe and it's going to take a while. You'll probably end up getting a major painful headache and nausea, perhaps even vomiting, since you'll have to breathe in the by-products of combustion along with the CO produced. It won't be anywhere nearly as fast as using charcoal in a small, enclosed place and getting the CO level extremely high whereby you would go unconscious in a few minutes.


Here's something to keep in mind if you're purchasing a newer generator:


Carbon Monoxide Shutdown Technology

Many modern generators now come equipped with carbon monoxide shutdown technology. This technology utilizes sensors that can detect elevated CO levels around the machine and automatically shut it down when they reach dangerous concentrations. These advancements can significantly reduce the risk of CO poisoning but should not be seen as a complete substitute for proper generator usage. The fact that the generator will shut off after it has produced dangerous levels of CO already demonstrates a dangerous situation.

Source: https://enviroliteracy.org/how-much-carbon-monoxide-does-a-generator-produce/

I read up on Conrad, and as i understand he used a gas water pump but i don't know how much horse power it was or how much time did it take for him to die. I also read a police report that someone killed himself with carbon monoxide and video recorded it but i can't find the video. He used sulfur acid for Co generaition. I will read up the topic on charcoal again. Does the charcoal make any smell at all?

I' don't have knowledge on this topic but I do love dirt bikes and I know 2 strokes emit much more smoke then a 4 stroke if that helps

Thank you i do have a question for you. I'm not very knowledgeable on engines. What causes kick back on engines? I have a weed wacker and when i pull the string to start the engine it pulls back the string violently out of my arm and doesn't start. The choke is open of course. There is info on the internet but mainly for 4 stroke mowers which have valves and flywheels.

 

[restlesseyes]

1000 cubic feet was that a shed or moving truck.? How did you test the co levels?

Can you put a link to the kind of weed Wacker you tested that produced 2000 ppm co?

Using 5 weedwackers at the same time would produce 10,000 ppm co

if you go into a smaller space 500 cubic feet then 20,000 ppm .

can add large beach balls to enclosed area to reduce volume of air , make a smaller space to increase co concentration

I read up on Conrad, and as i understand he used a gas water pump but i don't know how much horse power it was or how much time did it take for him to die. I also read a police report that someone killed himself with carbon monoxide and video recorded it but i can't find the video. He used sulfur acid for Co generaition. I will read up the topic on charcoal again. Does the charcoal make any smell at all?

Thank you i do have a question for you. I'm not very knowledgeable on engines. What causes kick back on engines? I have a weed wacker and when i pull the string to start the engine it pulls back the string violently out of my arm and doesn't start. The choke is open of course. There is info on the internet but mainly for 4 stroke mowers which have valves and

 

[restlesseyes]

I read up on Conrad, and as i understand he used a gas water pump but i don't know how much horse power it was or how much time did it take for him to die. I also read a police report that someone killed himself with carbon monoxide and video recorded it but i can't find the video. He used sulfur acid for Co generaition. I will read up the topic on charcoal again. Does the charcoal make any smell at all?

Thank you i do have a question for you. I'm not very knowledgeable on engines. What causes kick back on engines? I have a weed wacker and when i pull the string to start the engine it pulls back the string violently out of my arm and doesn't start. The choke is open of course. There is info on the internet but mainly for 4 stroke mowers which have valves and flywheels.

Yeah only using dirt bike terms when I had probably with that it was usually either 3 things to high compression, to low compression or un burnt fuel in , the easiest problem of these would be un burnt fuel turning it on pressing throttle and pulling string , the other problems usually take mechanic work

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Does the charcoal make any smell at all?

It would be very minimal if ALL the coals are burning red/white hot and there is NO smoke emanating from them.

As far as Conrad goes, you'd be hard pressed to find any specific details regarding what he used or how long it took for him to die. I doubt they'd release any details of what he used and even an autopsy couldn't accurately say how long it took for him to die since there are just too many variables involved. A quick CO death requires very high CO levels (10000 ppm or greater). Obviously, the lower the level, the longer it takes, and the more "uncomfortableness" one would have to endure until death arrives, or, at least, unconsciousness occurs.

As far as your original query regarding 2-stroke vs 4-stroke CO emissions, I found this:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/emissions-test-car-vs-truck-vs-leaf-blower.html

They compared the CO emissions from 4 different type/size engines, including a 4-stroke and 2-stroke small engine. The 2-stroke put out nearly double the amount of CO as that of it's 4-stroke counterpart.

 

[aguy]

It would be very minimal if ALL the coals are burning red/white hot and there is NO smoke emanating from them.

As far as Conrad goes, you'd be hard pressed to find any specific details regarding what he used or how long it took for him to die. I doubt they'd release any details of what he used and even an autopsy couldn't accurately say how long it took for him to die since there are just too many variables involved. A quick CO death requires very high CO levels (10000 ppm or greater). Obviously, the lower the level, the longer it takes, and the more "uncomfortableness" one would have to endure until death arrives, or, at least, unconsciousness occurs.

As far as your original query regarding 2-stroke vs 4-stroke CO emissions, I found this:

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/emissions-test-car-vs-truck-vs-leaf-blower.html

They compared the CO emissions from 4 different type/size engines, including a 4-stroke and 2-stroke small engine. The 2-stroke put out nearly double the amount of CO as that of it's 4-stroke counterpart.

Thank you for the link, it's very useful i searched so much but missed this one. I am reading about the coal method again, i have to give it a try i thought that it would produce a lot of heat in an enclosed space so i didn't even consider it, but i am reading more now and found that i am wrong, Not much coal is needed to ctb.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

Thank you for the link, it's very useful i searched so much but missed this one. I am reading about the coal method again, i have to give it a try i thought that it would produce a lot of heat in an enclosed space so i didn't even consider it, but i am reading more now and found that i am wrong, Not much coal is needed to ctb.

0.135 kg of charcoal for every m³ of volume is needed. Can easily convert to lbs and ft³. Should multiply result by at least 3 for "safety" factor. There will be heat. Generators give off heat, too, though.

 

[maniac116]

A 2 stroke puts out much much more CO than 4 stroke.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

0.135 kg of charcoal for every m³ of volume is needed. Can easily convert to lbs and ft³. Should multiply result by at least 3 for "safety" factor. There will be heat. Generators give off heat, too, though.

i might be able to get an enclosed area 400 cubic feet which is = 11 cubic meters 11 m3. according to this article using 1 kg would lead to 10x what is needed in this enclosed area. but i would use at least 2 charcoal grils with 1kg each. but using your calculation seems more accurate . this is just one article one analysis. using your calculation i would use 2 grills with 3kg total for 3x times 11 m3. how did you arrive at the .135kg of every m3 ?

Carbon monoxide-induced death and toxicity from charcoal briquettes

This case highlights the problem of burning charcoal briquettes in a poorly ventilated space, which can generate toxic carbon monoxide (CO) concentrations.1 CO is a colourless, odourless and non-irritating gas with no warning properties. Sources of CO are related to incomplete combustion of...

www.mja.com.au

if the concentration of carbon in the briquettes is 85%, the lethal concentration of CO is 10 000 ppm and the volume of an apartment is 100 m3, then burning 629 g of charcoal briquettes could produce a potentially toxic atmosphere. Therefore, using a typical amount of briquettes of about 1 kg in a poorly ventilated area is likely to lead to clinical toxicity and might lead to death.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

i might be able to get an enclosed area 400 cubic feet which is = 11 cubic meters 11 m3. according to this article using 1 kg would lead to 10x what is needed in this enclosed area. but i would use at least 2 charcoal grils with 1kg each.

I get 1.5 kg is what is needed for your 400 ft³, or 11.3 m³ space, and that doesn't take into account a safety factor. Multiplying 1.5 kg by 3 = 4.5 kg, or 9.9 lbs, to be safe. I don't know where you come up with 1kg is 10X more than necessary.