Pryras

Pryras

Last hope
Feb 11, 2020
451
So the guy I've had trouble with for the past 2 years sent me my invoice money back (I had asked him months ago to return because I felt like a joke and carried resentment about paying for something he gave everyone else for free of charge)

When I made the request to return my money I was grasping at straws and trying to find something that could give me some sense of peace or closure or reparations or whatever the hell I wanted at the time.

He sent it today. Obviously I'm not rich and it was nearly $2,000...I want to take it but I feel so unwell and sad. Not sure why ? If I don't take it I might feel the resentment later but if I do I feel like I'm doing something wrong. I know it's not but why am I feeling this way ? How do I stop it and remember who the fuck I'm actually dealing with.
 
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Good4Nothing

Good4Nothing

Unlovable
May 8, 2020
1,865
It's only money. He won't miss it, and you need it. Take it.
 
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XYZ

XYZ

I just can’t get these damn wrists to bleed
Jul 22, 2020
800
Relationships can break a person down. I don't know your story but I get a feeling that you've been hurt and walked all over by your ex.

From the outside it's quite straightforward. If your ex ows you money and has paid you back that money, you should take it.

Btw I lost myself and all my self worth because of what my ex subjected me to. I pass no judgement, just wish you strength.
 
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Pryras

Pryras

Last hope
Feb 11, 2020
451
Relationships can break a person down. I don't know your story but I get a feeling that you've been hurt and walked all over by your ex.

From the outside it's quite straightforward. If your ex ows you money and has paid you back that money, you should take it.

Btw I lost myself and all my self worth because of what my ex subjected me to. I pass no judgement, just wish you strength.

I wish you strength and healing as well. This Guy wasn't an ex so much as someone I called my best friend. He hurt me in ways that lead to some pretty massive damage in my life (tangible and emotional) but there's always a very small peace of me that remembers who he was before everything changed. I think that was just an illusion and my depiction of him, not the real him. I went back and forth with utmost hatred to some feelings of "well, maybe..."
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
Are there any strings attached to you taking it? Do you have to meet with him?

You said he sent it, so you already have possession of it? If yes, freaking take it and maintain no contact! You're doing NOTHING wrong. If he wrote a check and it bounces, just let it go and move on, it's hoovering for more supply.
 
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Pryras

Pryras

Last hope
Feb 11, 2020
451
Are there any strings attached to you taking it? Do you have to meet with him?

You said he sent it, so you already have possession of it? If yes, freaking take it and maintain no contact! You're doing NOTHING wrong. If he wrote a check and it bounces, just let it go and move on, it's hoovering for more supply.

No strings attached, not even a single word with it, just the transfer. I think between sending an apology/acknowledgment or sending money he chose what was easier for him. I think I was in so much shock he would even send it, but I know it's not from a place of guilt or acknowledgement ( more of a, "she'll get off my back" ) sort of thing.

Thankfully I've moved forward from looking for an acknowledgment so I wasn't disappointed. I think the shock caused doubt in me. I just accepted it minutes ago and I'm glad. Thank you
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
Do as you choose, but I highly recommend not acknowledging him at all. No thanks are required, he doesn't play by social norms and rules like reciprocity anyway. It's just fuel. If you don't, it's fuel. If you do, it's fuel. Fuck that. Don't enter the arena and there is no battle.

I'm so glad for you that you got the money!
 
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Grav

Grav

Wizard
Jul 26, 2020
660
It sounds like this is a clear signal to break from the relationship in any form. If it was me I'd make a clean break and move on. It sounds like he may try some tricks if you do communicate with him.
 
woxihuanni

woxihuanni

Illuminated
Aug 19, 2019
3,299
Things have been going okay and I felt a huge relief when he sent the money (etransfered) it to me. I was for the first time, okay.

today I get this Email (Name + last name is extremely common and go full on panic attack mode ...yes nothing is being said honestly but it was a huge slap in the face. I wanted no contact but not on his terms? I said nothing and just accepting the transfer I didn't need this and now I'm beyond incomprehensible View attachment 42890
I really needed to give my letter, I felt a huge relief when I did. I'm so upset because it feels like nothing I do will help. ..any sort of peace for me is taken away

I understand this kind of blow very well. Not in the sense of advice at all, but if such a move made it impossible to find peace for me, I'd arrange a situation where this person trusts/likes another person who is setting him up, and gets obliterated, ghosted in a really humiliating way.
 
GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
You already went no contact on your own terms.

This is typical narcissist bullshit, it's posturing. Don't let it get to you. Just keep ignoring him.
 
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Pryras

Pryras

Last hope
Feb 11, 2020
451
You already went no contact on your own terms.

This is typical narcissist bullshit, it's posturing. Don't let it get to you. Just keep ignoring him.

I was so strong a week ago, I don't know what happened but I panicked and feel like it's back to square one. I was invalidated again and I just wish I could have some peace.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
First, I'm sending a hug.

Second, you've come VERY far -- maybe you can journal about that to remind yourself?

It was an intimidation tactic, that's all. I'm not minimizing you but the brandishing of power, the saber-rattling. You are not in any way invalidated by this, though you may feel it, but from the outside, you're not. Bullying is about the bully, not the one being bullied. He's a narcissistic bully. I'm imagining when you feel invalid that all of what's valid is being sucked up by him through a straw -- that's the narcissistic supply. Then I imagine that straw being detached from you and dissolving, and all holes healing over, as if they were never there, so no other straw can ever be used against you again. Your validity is from within you and for you, not him.

Does this help at all? I don't want you to feel even more invalidated, or unheard. I hear you. It's totally understandable that you had a panic reaction and defaulted to feeling invalidated. Sending lots of compassion, validation, and boosts of empowerment.

Also, are you from his culture? If you're not, it may be helpful when you're calmer to research it. Now that I've seen the letter, I'm not surprised at the intimidation tactic. It really is better to stay no contact, no matter how he tries to get your attention, whether in frightening or other ways. I'm saying to get street smart about this, have awareness. And if you have irl friends, I suggest that you share the letter with them, because secrecy and isolation are not in your best interest about this. And (re)read In Sheep's Clothing.

Being a narcissist, this guy needs supply. When you give zero attention, he will find another supply, and maybe occasionally try to hoover again in the future. He's like a cat playing with its prey, so be very boring. If he pokes, as he just did, remain boring, do not give him any evidence of a reaction or response. If you made a threat but didn't and don't intend to follow through on it, then just remain boring and let the threat go, he'll quit posturing after awhile. If he won something when you weren't even engaged in a fight, that's what narcissists do, and I've learned it's best to get away and stay away, rather than trying to win anything back. It's the cost of peace and it's worth it; pride has to soothe itself and consider the whole picture, and how much more you'll lose if you keep engaging and try to get justice or get something back. Pride (not self-respect) has to take the back seat. Sometimes shitty narcissistic antisocial people do shitty narcissistic antisocial things and get away with it, but that doesn't mean they get what's inside, including one's peace. Far better to have no contact with them and be free of them. It doesn't mean we don't have power, but for a time they overpowered. Think of how there are others you could overpower as well but do not, and so respect about yourself that you are not the same, you do not take, you do not suck the power from others and diminish them. And he does not get to diminish the good person in you. He does not get to invalidate you just because he took advantage of your human vulnerabilities by posing as a friend, as a wolf in sheep's clothing.
 
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Pryras

Pryras

Last hope
Feb 11, 2020
451
First, I'm sending a hug.

Second, you've come VERY far -- maybe you can journal about that to remind yourself?

It was an intimidation tactic, that's all. I'm not minimizing you but the brandishing of power, the saber-rattling. You are not in any way invalidated by this, though you may feel it, but from the outside, you're not. Bullying is about the bully, not the one being bullied. He's a narcissistic bully. I'm imagining when you feel invalid that all of what's valid is being sucked up by him through a straw -- that's the narcissistic supply. Then I imagine that straw being detached from you and dissolving, and all holes healing over, as if they were never there, so no other straw can ever be used against you again. Your validity is from within you and for you, not him.

Does this help at all? I don't want you to feel even more invalidated, or unheard. I hear you. It's totally understandable that you had a panic reaction and defaulted to feeling invalidated. Sending lots of compassion, validation, and boosts of empowerment.

Also, are you from his culture? If you're not, it may be helpful when you're calmer to research it. Now that I've seen the letter, I'm not surprised at the intimidation tactic. It really is better to stay no contact, no matter how he tries to get your attention, whether in frightening or other ways. I'm saying to get street smart about this, have awareness. And if you have irl friends, I suggest that you share the letter with them, because secrecy and isolation are not in your best interest about this. And (re)read In Sheep's Clothing.

Being a narcissist, this guy needs supply. When you give zero attention, he will find another supply, and maybe occasionally try to hoover again in the future. He's like a cat playing with its prey, so be very boring. If he pokes, as he just did, remain boring, do not give him any evidence of a reaction or response. If you made a threat but didn't and don't intend to follow through on it, then just remain boring and let the threat go, he'll quit posturing after awhile. If he won something when you weren't even engaged in a fight, that's what narcissists do, and I've learned it's best to get away and stay away, rather than trying to win anything back. It's the cost of peace and it's worth it; pride has to soothe itself and consider the whole picture, and how much more you'll lose if you keep engaging and try to get justice or get something back. Pride (not self-respect) has to take the back seat. Sometimes shitty narcissistic antisocial people do shitty narcissistic antisocial things and get away with it, but that doesn't mean they get what's inside, including one's peace. Far better to have no contact with them and be free of them. It doesn't mean we don't have power, but for a time they overpowered. Think of how there are others you could overpower as well but do not, and so respect about yourself that you are not the same, you do not take, you do not suck the power from others and diminish them. And he does not get to diminish the good person in you. He does not get to invalidate you just because he took advantage of your human vulnerabilities by posing as a friend, as a wolf in sheep's clothing.

First off, thank you!!! You're a gem to me and I always feel better reading your responses. I specifically look for them since I know it will help me get through a hard moment.

Also he and I are from the same culture but he's from India and I'm a citizen here in Canada. Nearly everyone here warns us about people from his parts because of the difference in mindset. Not caring about causing issues if it means they get they want. Not being racist here, it's just how it is with people over there.

I just got done with a 2 hr victim services meeting which calmed me down a bit. I mentioned to her how all I wanted was acknowledgment from him and she's like "you got yours when he hired a criminal defence lawyer." "He feels screwed and guilty and needed the help." Before then, I never threatened him with taking action or even thought about making a report. I kept putting it off and just didn't do one. She kept reminding me that he's the one that's scared and I'm not at fault. That he committed a crime, I didn't.

Out of panic I did respond to his lawyer and I shouldn't have. I didn't care too much since I wasn't going to go through a trial process anyways but I felt belittled. The way he spoke down to me, telling me that it was only regret and that he WILL win any sort of case against him.....The woman at victim services told me to leave him guessing for my next move, and then have no move. He can live in anxiety with no contact as he claimed he wanted despite hiring a lawyer and I can carry on as an innocent citizen.

I just fucking hate seeing shitty people get what they want. It's my pride and it's sucks. I'm calmer now, but admittedly a bit stressed. I need to change my mindset about the whole thing so it doesn't give me this panic feeling that just shows up every few hours.
It's hard and it's annoying because it's ruining my peace.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
First off, thank you!!! You're a gem to me and I always feel better reading your responses. I specifically look for them since I know it will help me get through a hard moment.

Also he and I are from the same culture but he's from India and I'm a citizen here in Canada. Nearly everyone here warns us about people from his parts because of the difference in mindset. Not caring about causing issues if it means they get they want. Not being racist here, it's just how it is with people over there.

I just got done with a 2 hr victim services meeting which calmed me down a bit. I mentioned to her how all I wanted was acknowledgment from him and she's like "you got yours when he hired a criminal defence lawyer." "He feels screwed and guilty and needed the help." Before then, I never threatened him with taking action or even thought about making a report. I kept putting it off and just didn't do one. She kept reminding me that he's the one that's scared and I'm not at fault. That he committed a crime, I didn't.

Out of panic I did respond to his lawyer and I shouldn't have. I didn't care too much since I wasn't going to go through a trial process anyways but I felt belittled. The way he spoke down to me, telling me that it was only regret and that he WILL win any sort of case against him.....The woman at victim services told me to leave him guessing for my next move, and then have no move. He can live in anxiety with no contact as he claimed he wanted despite hiring a lawyer and I can carry on as an innocent citizen.

I just fucking hate seeing shitty people get what they want. It's my pride and it's sucks. I'm calmer now, but admittedly a bit stressed. I need to change my mindset about the whole thing so it doesn't give me this panic feeling that just shows up every few hours.
It's hard and it's annoying because it's ruining my peace.

I'm glad to be here for you. It never feels like wasted or unappreciated effort.

I really like that advice about leaving him guessing for your next move and then having no move. I figured that either you threatened outing him or reporting him, or that he preemptively got a successful defense attorney to scare you. That defense attorney is a clear statement that he knows he committed a crime, though he didn't admit it to you as you wanted, it's still an admission. You won. He didn't say it to you directly, but you got your victory. I hope your pride can hear that and feel some wanted vindication.

I'd like to make the suggestion that instead of posting after you do something, post before.

I get your feelings, I get the pride, and I get having such strong emotions that they push to do something. That's part of the mindset change to me, having experienced it, that there's the goal and then there are the actions that support it, and to keep doing them until it gets through that the mindset and the correlating actions are much more rewarding, in fact deeply satisfying. For instance, the journaling I did to keep me from writing to my parents. Every time I had that urge, I wrote a draft to my parents to get it out, I posted and reminded myself of what they're really like and that it would not be rewarding, I got support from other members for pursuing and achieving my goal, and I read my Stoic and Buddhist quotes that applied. The urge comes up less and less now. I write fewer drafts to them, I have the reminders of what they're really like, I don't even post, I have the quotes, and I get through it much faster. I am not going to go to that slot machine, it will not pay off. When it comes up, I give it attention, but it do not give it the gratification, I replace that with gratification that is self-beneficial. It's a process, and it's been working.

Here are some quotes that help me keep in check when I'm feeling the urge to act on impulse, maybe you'll find some value in them:

This quote is at the front of my journal where I have quotes and tools like the ones I've shared on the forum: "For as savage dogs are excited at every sound, and are only soothed by a familiar voice, so also it is not easy to quiet the wild passions of the soul, unless familiar and well-known arguments be at hand to check its excitement." - Plutarch

"Control your passions, lest they take vengeance on you." - Epictetus (I add to this, or someone uses them to their advantage against you.)

"Things seen through a mist of rage appear greater than they are." - Plutarch

"The best corrective of anger lies in delay. Ask this concession from anger at the outset, not in order that it may pardon, but in order that it may judge. Its first assaults are heavy; it will leave off if it waits." - Seneca (I like to say that anger is a friend and a guide, but it belongs in the back seat and should speak from there. Letting anger take over means it climbs into the front seat and takes over the steering and the gas, and anger has limited vision, drives too fast, and gets into otherwise avoidable accidents, like driving full speed into a wall or running someone over. Whatever emotions like anger take over and get you to act out of passion rather than thoughtful consideration are driving the car and can cause regrettable and avoidable damage.)

"Beings have their actions as their refuge and their shelter." - Buddha

"When in the grip of passionate emotions, we run the risk of being blind to the best course of action." - from a university website page on Epictetus

"You need not be a sage to take insults lightly, but merely someone of sense--one who might say: 'Do I deserve these things that happen to me? If I deserve them, there is no insult; it is justice. If I don't deserve them, let the one who does the injustice blush." - Seneca

"Is a little oil spilled, a little wine stolen? Say 'this is the price of equanimity, this is the price of peace of mind' -- for nothting comes free." - Epictetus

"This is why I lost my lamp: because a thief was better than I at staying awake. But he bought the lamp at a high price. In return he became a thief, he became untrustworthy...This seemed to him a good bargain!" - Epictetus

"So in all our plans and activities, let us do just what we are accustomed to do when we approach a sidewalk vendor who is selling some merchandise or other: let's see what it will cost to get this thing we have our hearts set on....I can show you many things whose pursuit and acquistion has cost us our freedom. We would belong to ourselves if these things did not belong to us." - Seneca

"Imagine the following scene: Fortune is holding games, and over this mob of humanity she is shaking out honors, riches, influence. Some of these trinkets have been torn in the hands of people trying to grab them, some shared by a treacherous partnership, some caught with great injury to those who get them. Some fell to people doing other things entirely; some were dropped because people were trying too hard to catch them, and knocked away from those snatching at them greedily. But even among those to whom this booty has luckily fallen, there is no one whose joy in it has lasted until the next day. So it is that the wise run from the theater as soon as they see the trinkets being brought in. They know that these small things [are small and that they] come at a high price." - Seneca

P.S. What I really like about this wisdom is that if I don't go to it before I act, then after I act I recognize how it was applicable. I don't feel shamed by this. Instead, it solidifies the lesson for me, and the next time something similar comes up, I'm more likely to remember the wisdom and to act based on the wisdom, rather than act on the impulse as I'd done before. In time, the wisdom builds and internalizes, over and over again, while the impulses calm and either stay in the backseat, or jump in the front seat and then quickly climb back before they ever get near the steering wheel.

"It would be foolish to regard small improvements with contempt when it is so rare to find any other kind. So if Stoics seek great things but get only part way there, the discrepancy should not cause them to be thought of as hypocrites. They aimed high, fell short, and did well." - Ward Farnsworth, The Practicing Stoic
 
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Pryras

Pryras

Last hope
Feb 11, 2020
451
I'm glad to be here for you. It never feels like wasted or unappreciated effort.

I really like that advice about leaving him guessing for your next move and then having no move. I figured that either you threatened outing him or reporting him, or that he preemptively got a successful defense attorney to scare you. That defense attorney is a clear statement that he knows he committed a crime, though he didn't admit it to you as you wanted, it's still an admission. You won. He didn't say it to you directly, but you got your victory. I hope your pride can hear that and feel some wanted vindication.

I'd like to make the suggestion that instead of posting after you do something, post before.

I get your feelings, I get the pride, and I get having such strong emotions that they push to do something. That's part of the mindset change to me, having experienced it, that there's the goal and then there are the actions that support it, and to keep doing them until it gets through that the mindset and the correlating actions are much more rewarding, in fact deeply satisfying. For instance, the journaling I did to keep me from writing to my parents. Every time I had that urge, I wrote a draft to my parents to get it out, I posted and reminded myself of what they're really like and that it would not be rewarding, I got support, and I read my Stoic and Buddhist quotes that applied. The urge comes up less and less now. I write fewer drafts to them, I have the reminders of what they're really like, I don't even post, I have the quotes, and I get through it much faster. I am not going to go to that slot machine, it will not pay off. When it comes up, I give it attention, but it do not give it the gratification, I replace that with gratification that is self-beneficial. It's a process, and it's been working.

Here are some quotes that help me keep in check when I'm feeling the urge to act on impulse, maybe you'll find some value in them:

This quote is at the front of my journal where I have quotes and tools like the ones I've shared on the forum: "For as savage dogs are excited at every sound, and are only soothed by a familiar voice, so also it is not easy to quiet the wild passions of the soul, unless familiar and well-known arguments be at hand to check its excitement." - Plutarch

"Control your passions, lest they take vengeance on you." - Epictetus (I add to this, or someone uses them to their advantage against you.)

"Things seen through a mist of rage appear greater than they are." - Plutarch

"The best corrective of anger lies in delay. Ask this concession from anger at the outset, not in order that it may pardon, but in order that it may judge. Its first assaults are heavy; it will leave off if it waits." - Seneca (I like to say that anger is a friend and a guide, but it belongs in the back seat and should speak from there. Letting anger take over means it climbs into the front seat and takes over the steering and the gas, and anger has bad vision, drives too fast, and gets into otherwise avoidable accidents, like driving full speed into a wall or running someone over. Whatever emotions like anger take over and get you to act out of passion rather than thoughtful consideration are driving the car and can cause regrettable and avoidable damage.)

"Beings have their actions as their refuge and their shelter." - Buddha

"When in the grip of passionate emotions, we run the risk of being blind to the best course of action." - from a university website page on Epictetus

"You need not be a sage to take insults lightly, but merely someone of sense--one who might say: 'Do I deserve these things that happen to me? If I deserve them, there is no insult; it is justice. If I don't deserve them, let the one who does the injustice blush." - Seneca

"Is a little oil spilled, a little wine stolen? Say 'this is the price of equanimity, this is the price of peace of mind' -- for nothting comes free." - Epictetus

"This is why I lost my lamp: because a thief was better than I at staying awake. But he bought the lamp at a high price. In return he became a thief, he became untrustworthy...This seemed to him a good bargain!" - Epictetus

"So in all our planns and activities, let us do just what we are accustomed to do when we approach a sidewalk vendor who is selling some merchandise or other: let's see what it will cost to get this thing we have our hearts set on....I can show you many things whose pursuit and acquistion has cost us our freedom. We would belong to ourselves if these things did not belong to us." - Seneca

"Imagine the following scene: Fortune is holding bames, and over this mob of humanity she is shaking out honors, riches, influence. Some of these trinkets have been torn in the hands of people trying to grab them, some shared by a treacherous partnership, some caught with great injury to those who get them. Some fell to people doing other things entirely; some were dropped because people were trying too hard to catch them, and knocked away from those snatching at them greedily. But even among those to whom this booty has luckily fallen, there is no one whose joy in it has lasted until the next day. So it is that the wise run from the theater as soon as they see the trinkets being brought in. They knonw that these small things [are small and that they] come at a high price." - Seneca

P.S. What I really like about this wisdom is that if I don't go to it before I act, then after I act I recognize how it was applicable. I don't feel shamed by this. Instead, it solidifies the lesson for me, and the next time something similar comes up, I'm more likely to remember the wisdom and to act based on the wisdom, rather than act on the impulse as I'd done before. In time, the wisdom builds and internalizes, over and over again, while the impulses calm and either stay in the backseat, or jump in the front seat and then quickly climb back before they ever get near the steering wheel.

I saved the quotes and will remind myself to check back on them when I'm emotionally charged. Panic is like 0-100 with me and it's just "go go go" before you crash and recognize the damage.

I don't know if he'll ever truly believe what he did or if he convinced himself with the help of others that he's done nothing wrong, but I can only hope. My letter was extremely passive, short and sweet, no accusations or anger, just that I wasn't okay and I hope he continues as he has, with no remorse. I had a trauma shock when I got the email since it was the last thing I'd expect. He can keep digging deep into his shallow pockets to keep his reputation safe but I have to learn to stop and walk away. He's guilty, not me.

I'll throw a 100 punches a second when provoked or in this case, triggered. Need to breath and not react. Am I pissed that he didn't just take the letter and leave me tf alone after I accepted the etransfer? Yes, but I know if I press it more I'll just get hurt in the process.

It was mentioned that he was "traumatized by the whole thing" and "sorry" but definitely not guilty of any crime (ofc) but I know what sorry looks like and he had every opportunity to express that a year ago. He didn't. It's just a guise for him, I know what he's like and need to remind myself of the wolf that's underneath all that wool.
 
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GoodPersonEffed

GoodPersonEffed

Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
Jan 11, 2020
6,727
Am I pissed that he didn't just take the letter and leave me tf alone after I accepted the etransfer? Yes, but I know if I press it more I'll just get hurt in the process.

That letter from the attorney was a classic narcissist discard.

You got what you sought and were deserving of, but he had to devalue you. He had to have a win. Maybe he even had to try to make you fall into a wasted heap on the floor as a projection of what he's actually earned. That letter was such proof of how he functions as a narcissist, and how weak and predictable he is.

I didn't consider your statements racist. I had a Sikh acquaintance who came to the US with her husband and children, and less than two years later he discarded her and kept the kids because he had the power, then the temple community treated her like shit, and he turned the children against her. She ended up in transitional housing, totally depressed and distressed, with limited English skills, no work skills, and no ability to get on disability because she had no work history and hadn't paid into Social Security. It was from her that I learned the Sikh religion spouts gender equality, but in practice it's quite different, is very machismo-paternalistic, and women get shit on not only by men but by each other. I went with her one day when she had visitation with the kids and the boy, around 9 years old, talked to her like shit, I wanted to have a come-to-Jesus with him and set some things straight! So yeah, I was concerned that you were, say, a white woman who didn't know that culture.

Knowing the culture much better than I do, and knowing he's a petty narcissist, do you anticipate that he may in the future send any of his buddies after you to harass or harm you? It seems like it would be a stupid move, considering that he's retained a defense attorney and any such actions could be linked to him. Also, when he assaulted you, was it as a friend or was it linked to his profession as a photographer? Did you become friends as a result of the photography? If it's linked to his profession in any way, then other women are also likely victims, so like Harvey Weinstein, clients and models would be his victim pool that he grooms, and he would not only need an attorney, but may have others employed to harass and intimidate. Many narcissists as well have an army of flying monkeys who are sycophants, supporters, or people who will march on his orders. It just seems odd that he capitulated and refunded you, but not odd that he followed it up with the attorney intimidation. I'm just thinking about predictability, if it's basic petty narc patterns, or more dangerous patterns of a predator who has success and power.

Edit: Still trying to put this together. You didn't let things go, you proved that you wouldn't. So he paid you what he owed you. But then saber-rattled with the attorney in case you decided to pursue the justice you're owed as well. Is that accurate?

Edit: To empower you and help with the panic, read the attorney letters against the list of manipulation tactics. Him being traumatized is playing the victim to get you to pity him and back down from your position. Saber-rattling is also intended to get you to back down. Do you see what power you have here? You're getting scared, but he's showing you that you have power.
 
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That letter from the attorney was a classic narcissist discard.

You got what you sought and were deserving of, but he had to devalue you. He had to have a win. Maybe he even had to try to make you fall into a wasted heap on the floor as a projection of what he's actually earned. That letter was such proof of how he functions as a narcissist, and how weak and predictable he is.

I didn't consider your statements racist. I had a Sikh acquaintance who came to the US with her husband and children, and less than two years later he discarded her and kept the kids because he had the power, then the temple community treated her like shit, and he turned the children against her. She ended up in transitional housing, totally depressed and distressed, with limited English skills, no work skills, and no ability to get on disability because she had no work history and hadn't paid into Social Security. It was from her that I learned the Sikh religion spouts gender equality, but in practice it's quite different, is very machismo-paternalistic, and women get shit on not only by men but by each other. I went with her one day when she had visitation with the kids and the boy, around 9 years old, talked to her like shit, I wanted to have a come-to-Jesus with him and set some things straight! So yeah, I was concerned that you were, say, a white woman who didn't know that culture.

Knowing the culture much better than I do, and knowing he's a petty narcissist, do you anticipate that he may in the future send any of his buddies after you to harass or harm you? It seems like it would be a stupid move, considering that he's retained a defense attorney and any such actions could be linked to him. Also, when he assaulted you, was it as a friend or was it linked to his profession as a photographer? Did you become friends as a result of the photography? If it's linked to his profession in any way, then other women are also likely victims, so like Harvey Weinstein, clients and models would be his victim pool that he grooms, and he would not only need an attorney, but may have others employed to harass and intimidate. Many narcissists as well have an army of flying monkeys who are sycophants, supporters, or people who will march on his orders. It just seems odd that he capitulated and refunded you, but not odd that he followed it up with the attorney intimidation. I'm just thinking about predictability, if it's basic petty narc patterns, or more dangerous patterns of a predator who has success and power.

Edit: Still trying to put this together. You didn't let things go, you proved that you wouldn't. So he paid you what he owed you. But then saber-rattled with the attorney in case you decided to pursue the justice you're owed as well. Is that accurate?

You're spot on. And speaking as a Sikh woman myself, there's a huge disconnect with the religion and the people who claim to follow it. I've seen Gursikh men (basically as religiously devoted as you can get) do some pretty shitty stuff to women here. They'll dress and visually look the part but completely disgrace every rule and guideline in the book. I never understood it as a child or even now.

Honestly I doubt he'll get someone to come after me after this. He just HAD to devalue me after I accepted the money and you're right, I still got it and it was pure intimidation. We met through his profession (I booked him for some portrait shots) and I started working alongside him as a stylist afterwords. This gave us a lot of time together and opportunities for him to keep pushing my boundaries. His behaviour escalated overtime and I was too scared to say anything and jeopardize my hobby and friendship with him.

And yes that's accurate, he used the lawyer after i asked for a portion of my money back. But had to wait until I accepted it, what a coward. His friends are definitely flying monkeys and Think they know him better than I do (It's annoying when someone who has a platonic relationship with him thinks that they would know him nearly as much as someone who had an intimate one) He shared shit with me I'm sure he wouldn't tell a soul since it would just make him look bad.

Edit: I feel for that friend of yours and what she had to go through. It's very common and happens a lot with couples. It's always about using others to get what you want or to further yourself in some way or form. It still happens and it's why we're warned by our parents to stay away from anyone who could take advantage of us. My father left my mother after finding out she was having twin girls, but he waited until he was in Canada to leave her to raise us.
 
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I just don't understand. Sikhism seems like such a lovely religion in what I learned about its tenets, and yet there is that disconnect where the community doesn't practice them. The food, however, is AMAZING. I visited a Sikh temple once, before I ever met that woman, and was introduced to their practice of feeding strangers. It was soooooooooooo good. Also, it seems that they are not welcoming of people to join who are from other cultures, is that right? If that's true, then being so insular would reinforce the abuse in the community's culture. I was previously very interested in Buddhism and had a classmate who was half Japanese and half white. I wanted to visit her temple with her but they were very closed to outsiders, apparently she had struggles with being accepted because she was half white. I've learned there is a lot of abuse in Buddhist culture as well, and many monks, like the Gursikh men, do a lot that is blatantly against their vows, all the way up to the Dalai Lama in Tibetan Buddhism. And of course Catholicism is well-known for its centuries of abuse, it's just not closed to cultural outsiders, they want as many victims as they can get and would even invade countries to get more! :pfff:

Ugh. You know, it is well-recognized that women are in general more spiritually adept than men. We are the caretakers, we are the ones who connect. Yet men maintain the power in all religions -- even Sikhism! Women are always put at a lower level. I don't understand why it is this way, how it can be this way. Is it just a matter of men having brute force? When women are allowed to receive education, we often are more academically adept as well. So what gives? Men are more emotionally simplistic than women, is there something to that? Something about the simplicity and muscle mass? Just, how the fuck is it that societies are still like this? Are we, in spite of our evolutionary advantages and advancements, still mere apes?

Edit: We're hardwired to be influenced by authority. I wonder if we're hardwired to see men as having more authority than women. But then I wonder, if a closed experimental culture that for several generations was conditioned to see females as the authority figures, would it revert to males having authority anyway?
 
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I know what you mean and the food is everything!! The older generations will judge outsiders despite what we're taught as children which is to accept others with open arms.

I have a friend who is Muslim who actually thought I was Muslim due to my Persian name. She taught me a lot about Islamic religion and at first I really liked some aspects of it, but I quickly noticed how male dominated it was. The women are fine with it, but I had a hard time not seeing it for what it was....4 wives? Really? And yes women don't have to work but that seems pretty archaic to me as a "perk." My friend is a stem major and she's thrilled to be a housewife! To each their own but I felt like I was in another dimension
 
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I added an edit to my previous comment.

An oh please, unless they have the luxury of having servants, women work longer than men, they only get a break when they sleep, and that gets interrupted, too, if they have kids. Literally, a woman's work is never done.
 
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I added an edit to my previous comment.

An oh please, unless they have the luxury of having servants, women work longer than men, they only get a break when they sleep, and that gets interrupted, too, if they have kids. Literally, a woman's work is never done.

I wonder too if it's hardwired within us or just a matter of conditioning. I think a lot of people wouldn't be able get past the differences in biology and authority unless they were raised to separate the two. When I think of authority I unintentionally picture physical attributes, before the characteristics even.

And I agree, it's never over and there really is no break. Have things even changed all that much? I see it everyday in obvious and subtle ways. We're psycho for expecting the bare minimum and selfish for choosing not to have children. I hope every man who ever believes that personally carry a child for 40 weeks.
 
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Ugh I'm keeping myself from sending something that I should just internalize instead. I already proved to him and his lawyer that I WAS intimidated by sending those emails and getting upset so sending anything claiming I'm not makes no difference. I wish he could hear what I'm thinking or what I want to say but he can't. Should've just called him out on the bullshit when I received it but saying anything now is pointless.

idk how much he's paying the douchebag to support him but I hope it's ongoing and expensive.
 
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Ugh I'm keeping myself from sending something that I should just internalize instead. I already proved to him and his lawyer that I WAS intimidated by sending those emails and getting upset so sending anything claiming I'm not makes no difference. I wish he could hear what I'm thinking or what I want to say but he can't.

He definitely can't. The best way to prove you're not intimidated is not respond. A rock doesn't respond to intimidation, not even to say that it's not intimidated. It just keeps on being a rock.

If he could hear you, he wouldn't have assaulted you nor tried to intimidate you. He doesn't give any fucks about the real you, what you want, or what you have to say.

Hooray for posting instead of acting on the impulse first!

Advice: give fucks about yourself instead of about him. You are separate. You do not want what he is, and you don't want to connect with it, he's already proven what and who he is. If you're trying to get to the good or rational part of him, he has barriers around it. You won't get access. You'll get access to the booby traps that protect it. Focus on connecting with you, focus on getting close to the good and rational part of you. Focus on something that benefits you.

:hug:
 
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He definitely can't. The best way to prove you're not intimidated is not respond. A rock doesn't respond to intimidation, not even to say that it's not intimidated. It just keeps on being a rock.

If he could hear you, he wouldn't have assaulted you nor tried to intimidate you. He doesn't give any fucks about the real you, what you want, or what you have to say.

Hooray for posting instead of acting on the impulse first!

Advice: give fucks about yourself instead of about him. You are separate. You do not want what he is, and you don't want to connect with it, he's already proven what and who he is. If you're trying to get to the good or rational part of him, he has barriers around it. You won't get access. You'll get access to the booby traps that protect it. Focus on connecting with you, focus on getting close to the good and rational part of you. Focus on something that benefits you.

:hug:

I agree. I showed him and his lawyer my vulnerability and fear which is why I feel like huddling into a ball instead of staying strong and carefree if I hadn't. And TY for reminding me that he's not rational and I can't reach his good or decency. I tried nearly a year ago and It won't change now.
 
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idk how much he's paying the douchebag to support him but I hope it's ongoing and expensive.

I'm sure it was more than the money he refunded you.
 
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As mentioned above I would not accept it if there are strings attached to it. Don't want to be wrapped up in any unnecessary stress at a time like this. That said if you need the money and can take it you should not feel guilty about accepting it.
 
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As mentioned above I would not accept it if there are strings attached to it. Don't want to be wrapped up in any unnecessary stress at a time like this. That said if you need the money and can take it you should not feel guilty about accepting it.

Yeah that's what I essentially did, but he started all this bullshit after I took it. If I had known I probably wouldn't but I did need it back I'm not sorry about taking it anymore.
I'm sure it was more than the money he refunded you.

I spoke to a different attorney about it and he told me it was weird for him to have his criminal defence lawyer reach out to me personally like that. Since I didn't threaten with charges or a suit that he basically amped me up for no reason which actually pushed me to make a statement to police that same night. It will stay on information checks in their database and he can explain that to an officer if he's ever questioned about it.

I'm not pushing charges on him or bothering To pursue anything but have shared my experience with women in my city to protect them. Good luck to him and his "career" or whatever is left of it.
 
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