Help Can Argon Regulator be used for Nitrogen Gas? And why is it a "CO2/Argon" Regulator?

[how2toGetout]

The issue of whether Argon Regulator can be used for Nitrogen Gas to adjust the flow rate of Nitrogen is also mentioned in the following thread:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/inert-gas-argon-nitrogen.13419/

- QUESTION #1: After reading the 1st post of the above thread, i immediately asked the same question: Why is it that people say an Argon Regulator is okay enough to be used to measure/adjust the flow rate of Nitrogen gas? (e.g. adjusting the flow rate of Nitrogen to 15 Lpm).

TiredHorse in the "Exit bag and inert gas megathread" mentions about 'The Regulator' part of his post, that:

The Regulator:

Harbor Freight Tools offers a cheap CO2/Ar regulator (it also works for N2) with a flowmeter that shows flow in both Cfh and Lpm and goes high enough for our purposes. This is what I have.

I just would like some reassurance to the claim that CO2/Argon Regulator also works for N2 (Nitrogen) for the purposes of adjusting/measuring the flow rate of Nitrogen accurately.
Can anyone back up the above claim that CO2/Argon Regulator works for N2 also? Or is there a counter argument to the above claim?



- QUESTION #2: And also, why does the above mentioned CO2/Argon Regulator comes as a Regulator that can be used for both CO2 & Argon? Is there anything similar to each other about both CO2 & Argon? Why does CO2 & Argon always come together when talking about a Regulator? Is there some sort of reason?

 

[how2toGetout]

So far, i've found this discussion forum: https://www.micromatic.com/forum/us...ide/2905-regulator-for-argon-same-as-nitrogen.

Someone called "Tapman" in that discussion forum said "A gauge is a gauge. It doesn't care what gas it is, just the pressure. CO2 is a lot more dense than Nitrogen. Tapman "

Is this true? Does it not matter what type of gauge is hooked up to whatever types of gas?

Here is another forum discussion: https://forum.millerwelds.com/forum...4475-different-regulator-for-different-gasses.
But it doesn't really answer the specific question of mine..

 

[how2toGetout]

This Thread's question in the title is related closely to the post i posted in the following link in the following thread (the thread title being 'Nitrogen Regulator'):

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/nitrogen-regulator.7357/post-398329

Can someone please answer the question, because otherwise i don't know if Argon regulator can be used for Nitrogen gas. If Argon regulator is okay to use for Nitrogen gas and if there has to be some kind of conversion factor math thing that one has to do, what is that gonna be? Is it about "recalculating" the Lpm (in other words, "nudging down/up" the Lpm?

Ultimately, the question i want to get answered is:
Is "nudging down" the Lpm correct, in order to have Nitrogen flowrate become 15 Lpm, even though Argon Flowmeter indicates the flowrate is 15 Lpm? Because Argon Flowmeter's flowrate is the flowrate for when Argon is passing through the flowmeter?

 

[Lookingforabus]

"Inert gas" tanks/containers are built to a certain specification. The connectors/threads where a regulator attach are specific, and different from, for example, the threads on a tank designed to hold oxygen or propane or so on. This is done for safety reasons, to make sure that no one accidentally screws in an inert gas regulator to a tank full of oxygen (or propane or whatever) and accidentally blows themselves up - the inert gas regulator won't fit into a tank that's designed to hold propane, so the odds of accidentally attaching a nitrogen regulator to a propane tank, expecting nitrogen to come out, and therefore having an explosive welding accident are pretty close to 0.

So you can attach any inert gas regulator to any inert gas tank, because they have the same fittings (within the same country, different countries have different standards, for whatever reason... much in the same way electrical outlets vary from country to country). For whatever reason, argon/CO2 flowmeters are more common and cheaper than nitrogen flowmeters, so that's what tends to be used for inert gas asphyxiation suicides. I see no reason to spend $130 on a proper nitrogen flowmeter and wait two weeks for shipping, when I can pick up a $30 argon/CO2 flowmeter and get 2 day shipping from Amazon.

Argon and CO2 are frequently combined in flowmeters because the have similar molar masses (~40 and ~44, a ~10% difference), so the flowrate scales are similar. Nitrogen, in gaseous form is N2, which has a molar weight of ~28, 30% less than argon, which is a very different scale, so it's generally not included on the same flowmeter scale as argon, because the difference is so large. O2, with a molar mass of ~32 is within ~15% of N2, which is why some people, and some euthanasia organizations use an oxygen flowmeter with an adapter to inert gas tanks for their exit bag kits. The molar mass, and therefore the gas flow rate, is close enough that it doesn't make a practical difference.

If using an argon flowmeter with nitrogen gas, the actual flow rate is ~70% of the displayed flow rate. If it says 20 LPM, you're actually getting ~14 LPM. See the attached PDF. This is because argon, being heavier, exerts more force on whatever is measuring the flow rate than nitrogen, which is lighter. It's that F = MA equation from primary school. Being at the same pressure and temperature, a heavier gas exerts more force than a lighter one, because it has more mass.

 

[swinkie34@googlemail]

So, could you please just tell us the flow rate we need for Nitrogen on an Argon flow metre .
I would be soooo grateful if you could. Been researching for ages

 

[Greenberg]

So, could you please just tell us the flow rate we need for Nitrogen on an Argon flow metre .
I would be soooo grateful if you could. Been researching for ages

Please refer to my blog. Full and easy-to-understand explanations and calculations of the flow rate conversion are provided. The link to my blog is under my name.

 

[tams]

I'm confused. Some people are saying you should set the argon flow meter higher since it is less dense and some are saying to set it lower. Which one is it?

 

[thewalkingdread]

If using an argon flowmeter with nitrogen gas, the actual flow rate is ~70% of the displayed flow rate. If it says 20 LPM, you're actually getting ~14 LPM.

This is useful! Tyvm