Can animals be evil?

[noname223]

Here another topic I bascially don't have any knowledge about at all. So let's make a thread about it. Damn I would be quite a good journalist of the yellow press. I mean go for a google search and you will get a way more sophisticated answer. Though I rely on some people on this forum for a more analytical answer. I am only the guy who brings up the questions.

It probably depends on the definition of the term evil. They are probably not in the same way evil as humans. Probably it depends on their IQ and self-consciousness. I mean I think some dolphins intentionally commit suicide.
I am ambivalent about it. My main-argument against it is animals usually don't have enough self-conscioussness. Their behavior is mostly determined by their animalic instincts.

On the other hand when I was younger I often observed how brutally my cat tortured mice. it was kind of heartbreaking to watch that as a child. I was kind of angry on my cat. But I never treated her badly because of it. ( I think my mom once did. Yeah she is quite a moron.) Maybe one could make a ranking of the most brutal animals and how cruel they torture other sentient beings. It should not be the same scale used for humans and rather include the fact that their instincts are responsible for that.

I think many people here in this forum have a strong love for animals. And I admire that. Many here had horrible experiences with humans so they turned to (innocent) animals. That can be sometimes healing.

What is your opinion on that?

 

[StolenLife]

There are some instinctual behaviours that can be read as evil. For instance, you have the whole hierarchy among some animals. If one has many animals, sometimes those animals simply don't accept each other. So cats hiss at the newcomer cat and dogs bark at each other.
Then there is that whole thing about cycle of abuse which was observed on monkeys. The stronger monkey beats up the weaker one, and then the weaker one beats up the other monkey that is even weaker than himself instead of the one who hit him in the first place and so on.
Also lion males kill cubs that aren't theirs when claiming a new pride.
But the difference between us and animals is that we know agressive behaviour is wrong unless necessary yet we act like that because of unhealthy coping mechanisms or to let our anger out on someone, while animals are simply programmed to do so in order to preserve their kind evolutionary.

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

The human "self-consciousness" is an illusion. If you think about it, it reveals more about what we are NOT conscious about. Which is a lot. A better question would be, can humans be evil?

If we equate "evil" with antisocial behaviour, then yes, to both questions. Animals can be mostly antisocial/prosocial, just like humans. I've met dogs/cats that had a kind natures, and dogs/cats that would instantly kill me if they thought they had any chance.

Some argue that because of the shape of their heads, cats have to tire their prey before giving the killing bite, or it would be too risky for them. (they could lose an eye or something similar) So this "tiring of the prey" might look like torture, but it isn't. Personally, i think that this might have some truth to it, but just some. Cats do enjoy playing with their prey, that much is clear to anyone who has seen them at it. Take their toy away and they get all pissed off.

But the difference between us and animals is that we know agressive behaviour is wrong unless necessary yet we act like that because of unhealthy coping mechanisms or to let our anger out on someone, while animals are simply programmed to do so in order to preserve their kind evolutionary.

How exactly wouldn't animals understand what sort of violence is "necessary" and what not? How would any other herd animals than humans even be able to exist if this was the case?

"Knowing" what is wrong (knowing what your society/herd/pack whatever sees as unwanted behaviour) doesn't matter at all in the context. What matters is "feeling" what is wrong. Some humans can feel what is wrong, and some can't. Some feel it more, some less, some a lot, some a little.

There is no reason to presume animals would be any different to humans in this.

 

[KQuotientW]

Chickens are arseholes. I've seen them peck their own offspring to death.

 

[Superdeterminist]

IMO if humans can be evil, then yes, so can animals. When you see predators eating their prey alive or spending 30 minutes picking them apart alive, while they are screaming the entire time, that's as evil as any human torture could be. I don't care how much thought went into it. It's the same result, profound suffering.

 

[whatevs]

Animals with a sophisticated nervous system are sadistic, that is, they might torture their enemies or prey instead of just killing them. This might qualify for 'evil'. But all life is evil. Life is evil itself.

 

[lionetta12]

Here another topic I bascially don't have any knowledge about at all. So let's make a thread about it. Damn I would be quite a good journalist of the yellow press. I mean go for a google search and you will get a way more sophisticated answer. Though I rely on some people on this forum for a more analytical answer. I am only the guy who brings up the questions.

It probably depends on the definition of the term evil. They are probably not in the same way evil as humans. Probably it depends on their IQ and self-consciousness. I mean I think some dolphins intentionally commit suicide.
I am ambivalent about it. My main-argument against it is animals usually don't have enough self-conscioussness. Their behavior is mostly determined by their animalic instincts.

On the other hand when I was younger I often observed how brutally my cat tortured mice. it was kind of heartbreaking to watch that as a child. I was kind of angry on my cat. But I never treated her badly because of it. ( I think my mom once did. Yeah she is quite a moron.) Maybe one could make a ranking of the most brutal animals and how cruel they torture other sentient beings. It should not be the same scale used for humans and rather include the fact that their instincts are responsible for that.

I think many people here in this forum have a strong love for animals. And I admire that. Many here had horrible experiences with humans so they turned to (innocent) animals. That can be sometimes healing.

What is your opinion on that?

You always post the most interesting questions on here, stimulates me so much intellectualy to read these threads. Thank you for coming up with all these deep questions.

 

[noname223]

You always post the most interesting questions on here, stimulates me so much intellectualy to read these threads. Thank you for coming up with all these deep questions.

Thank you very much for this compliment! It means much to me!
Sendings hugs and love!

 

[CTB Dream]

Evil human Word can apply anmal , some good some bad , animal similarity human. Truth life cruel make cruel, biology cruel

 

[hamvil]

I do not think animals can be evil. Good and evil are human constructs, I am not saying that all is relative because despite what some people that like philosophy too much there are absolutely bad things (murder, exploitation, violence, ..). But animals follow their instinct, even a cat killing a prey and not eating it most likely is just training, which is important for him because his life will depend on that. nature does not care about us, there is a type of mosquito in Africa that lays its eggs in the eyes of people which then turn blind. Is that evil? No, more like a creepy evolutionary direction. In general stay far away from animal that would consider you food :)

 

[JustSwingingTheD]

IMO if humans can be evil, then yes, so can animals. When you see predators eating their prey alive or spending 30 minutes picking them apart alive, while they are screaming the entire time, that's as evil as any human torture could be. I don't care how much thought went into it. It's the same result, profound suffering.

Yes and it's interesting that we still refuse to call this evil, or alternatively reconsider our own definitions of evil. We often refuse to see the big picture, because there is very little comfort in it.

There are many so called antinatalists, some on this forum too, who think that human beings should just go extinct. I disagree. I think it's our moral duty as the spearhead of evolution to end all life on earth, not just our own.

Runaway greenhouse effect, venus style. Keep polluting brothers and sisters.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

Think about the scorpion and the frog.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

I dunno man, this penguin seems pretty fucked up, but then I'm no David Attenborough.

 

[Temporal_Anchorite]

Largely I would say no, but this can be dependent on the species of animal in question. Most animals don't have the cognitive faculties or mental capacity to act with conscious deliberation & understanding, therefore we can't consider them moral actors. Animals exist outside the circle of moral agency.

 

[gomenasai]

I think animals have no apathy. They're self-serving, rather than evil and blind to the suffering of others. It may appear they're evil, but really they're just selfish and only care about their needs being met, anything else is not beneficial to them, so why would they do it. Animals are disgusting. All of them.

 

[Someone123]

I dunno man, this penguin seems pretty fucked up, but then I'm no David Attenborough.

View attachment 99309

Penguins might be the most evil animals on earth, no lie, we have a false impression of them because they're cute. A scientest did a study of them in 1911 and didn't publish the results because they were so bad- it was finally published in 2012. They rape their own children and they have sex with other dead penguins, and they rape the children of other penguins- they're pretty nasty.

 

[SamTam33]

I have a personal belief that pit bulls can be evil in the traditional human sense (of what it means to be evil).

But if they were in the wild and not being masqueraded as domesticated pets, the things they do would make more sense.

The way they snap and kill their owners and the little kids in their family - on the regular... They have a major malfunction.

 

[Someone123]

I have a personal belief that pit bulls can be evil in the traditional human sense (of what it means to be evil).

But if they were in the wild and not being masqueraded as domesticated pets, the things they do would make more sense.

The way they snap and kill their owners and the little kids in their family - on the regular... They have a major malfunction.

And then you have thsweet ones that don't cause trouble- but how do you know? I'd be scared to have them unless I really had strong assurance that it was o9ne of the dogs that is truly tame.

 

[makethepainstop]

Here another topic I bascially don't have any knowledge about at all. So let's make a thread about it. Damn I would be quite a good journalist of the yellow press. I mean go for a google search and you will get a way more sophisticated answer. Though I rely on some people on this forum for a more analytical answer. I am only the guy who brings up the questions.

It probably depends on the definition of the term evil. They are probably not in the same way evil as humans. Probably it depends on their IQ and self-consciousness. I mean I think some dolphins intentionally commit suicide.
I am ambivalent about it. My main-argument against it is animals usually don't have enough self-conscioussness. Their behavior is mostly determined by their animalic instincts.

On the other hand when I was younger I often observed how brutally my cat tortured mice. it was kind of heartbreaking to watch that as a child. I was kind of angry on my cat. But I never treated her badly because of it. ( I think my mom once did. Yeah she is quite a moron.) Maybe one could make a ranking of the most brutal animals and how cruel they torture other sentient beings. It should not be the same scale used for humans and rather include the fact that their instincts are responsible for that.

I think many people here in this forum have a strong love for animals. And I admire that. Many here had horrible experiences with humans so they turned to (innocent) animals. That can be sometimes healing.

What is your opinion on that?

The most evil animal animal? HUMANS! MANKIND!

 

[Someone123]

The most evil animal animal? HUMANS! MANKIND!

The reason for that is because we are the dominant species, so evil people among us can run wild. I think on any planet it is the dominant species that wreaks the most havoc.

 

[makethepainstop]

The reason for that is because we are the dominant species, so evil people among us can run wild. I think on any planet it is the dominant species that wreaks the most havoc.

You got to admit, when it comes to evil there hasn't been a species on this planet that can compete with humans when it comes to doing evil.

 

[Someone123]

You got to admit, when it comes to evil there hasn't been a species on this planet that can compete with humans when it comes to doing evil.

Yes based on the scale of it, but not based on being more unethical- pure evil is pure evil. The reason people have cause much more harm is because they are the dominant species.

 

[Maudlin]

Evil is just a value judgement. Purely subjective.

Life feeds on life. There's no way around it. It's objective fact, no matter how you feel about it.
For you, that may or may not be evil. Deal with it, or don't.

For me, that's just the way it is... nothing necessarily evil about it.

 

[Someone123]

Evil is just a value judgement. Purely subjective.

Life feeds on life. There's no way around it. It's objective fact, no matter how you feel about it.
For you, that may or may not be evil. Deal with it, or don't.

For me, that's just the way it is... nothing necessarily evil about it.

So if a being kills another being of it's own species just for fun, for example in the case of a serial killer, you don't think this is evil?

 

[Maudlin]

So if a being kills another being of it's own species just for fun, for example in the case of a serial killer, you don't think this is evil?

I don't agree with that, at all. In my opinion, killing anything just for shits and giggles is evil... but evil is subjective. What I find ethically objectionable might not be the same as what you object to.

That's why I said "nothing necessarily evil about it."

 

[Someonewhotypes]

cuckoo birds are born programmed to kill the host's offspring so that they can hog all the resources.
is the species evil? The bird is basically a baby when it does all that which is a very very evil thing to do. They push the host's offspring out of the nest deliberately.
my mind finds it impossible that that bird knows what's going on. It's just instructions written in its DNA.
I don't think animals can be evil. It's just our own views about good and bad that make us think they could be. They don't get as many behavioral choices as humans do.

 

[Maudlin]

cuckoo birds are born programmed to kill the host's offspring so that they can hog all the resources.
is the species evil? The bird is basically a baby when it does all that which is a very very evil thing to do. They push the host's offspring out of the nest deliberately.
my mind finds it impossible that that bird knows what's going on. It's just instructions written in its DNA.
I don't think animals can be evil. It's just our own views about good and bad that make us think they could be. They don't get as many behavioral choices as humans do.

Exactly.

 

[Someone123]

cuckoo birds are born programmed to kill the host's offspring so that they can hog all the resources.
is the species evil? The bird is basically a baby when it does all that which is a very very evil thing to do. They push the host's offspring out of the nest deliberately.
my mind finds it impossible that that bird knows what's going on. It's just instructions written in its DNA.
I don't think animals can be evil. It's just our own views about good and bad that make us think they could be. They don't get as many behavioral choices as humans do.

All living things that are advanced enough to make ethical choices can be evil or good or somewhere on this spectrum. The idea that humans are evil and animals are good is silly. I've read of male dolphins being recorded gang raping female dolphins, and many other evil acts in nature. There is nothing especially evil about people compared to other species- it is just our dominant species status that gives evil from humans a farther reach.

 

[chronicrexie]

personally i don't think so. the idea of 'evil' in itself was created by humans. animals do what they have to to survive/instinctually

 

[kavina]

Here another topic I bascially don't have any knowledge about at all. So let's make a thread about it. Damn I would be quite a good journalist of the yellow press. I mean go for a google search and you will get a way more sophisticated answer. Though I rely on some people on this forum for a more analytical answer. I am only the guy who brings up the questions.

It probably depends on the definition of the term evil. They are probably not in the same way evil as humans. Probably it depends on their IQ and self-consciousness. I mean I think some dolphins intentionally commit suicide.
I am ambivalent about it. My main-argument against it is animals usually don't have enough self-conscioussness. Their behavior is mostly determined by their animalic instincts.

On the other hand when I was younger I often observed how brutally my cat tortured mice. it was kind of heartbreaking to watch that as a child. I was kind of angry on my cat. But I never treated her badly because of it. ( I think my mom once did. Yeah she is quite a moron.) Maybe one could make a ranking of the most brutal animals and how cruel they torture other sentient beings. It should not be the same scale used for humans and rather include the fact that their instincts are responsible for that.

I think many people here in this forum have a strong love for animals. And I admire that. Many here had horrible experiences with humans so they turned to (innocent) animals. That can be sometimes healing.

What is your opinion on that?

I knew a couple of cats who were nasty pieces of work so it does make me wonder. Also had a psychotic hamster and I treated him well.