Buddhist monk on suicide. Life is a test?

[Kumachan]

Nice friendly dude. However his view on life being some sort of test, or exam (similar to christian beliefs) is puzzling if you think about that.

The idea of "free will", an agent, a "person" that controls the body seems absolutely absurd if you ask the question: "Who is being tested?".

The idea of "oneness" and the illusion of "me" as an independent "person"(good or bad) on the other hand makes much more sense:
I cannot be separated from my life - me and my life and everything around me are one thing. Hence "oneness". Its one big movie or dream.

It feels like we are all independent, separate agents with "free will" but "free" from what? And who is exactly "free"? Who is responsible for this shitshow?

Until this fallacy is seen through clearly there cannot be true harmony, good mental health. Living from this "personal" position is already mental.

Everything is based on a huge error. An illusion. A mistake. And it permiates all aspects of our lives.

 

[Shamana]

Suicide is a completely futile exercise in Buddhism. It just leads to rebith in the lower realms where the intensity of suffering is far greater than in the human realm. I've consulted many buddhist masters on this. So basically if you are looking for comfort in suicide, buddhism is not where you go looking for it.

 

[Kumachan]

Suicide is a completely futile exercise in Buddhism. It just leads to rebith in the lower realms where the intensity of suffering is far greater than in the human realm. I've consulted many buddhist masters on this. So basically if you are looking for comfort in suicide, buddhism is not where you go looking for it.

No, im not looking for anything in buddhism. I shared this video and discuss what was said in it. Have you watched it?

 

[Shamana]

No, im not looking for anything in buddhism. I shared this video and discuss what was said in it. Have you watched it?

I've seen it before yeah.

 

[KiraLittleOwl]

Life is a test/life is not a test
Both equally unprovable statements

 

[Brick In The Wall]

In my opinion we're all here to learn the same types of lessons. If we fail in this endeavor then we're given reincarnation. Again, this is just an opinion.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Suicide is a completely futile exercise in Buddhism. It just leads to rebith in the lower realms where the intensity of suffering is far greater than in the human realm. I've consulted many buddhist masters on this. So basically if you are looking for comfort in suicide, buddhism is not where you go looking for it.

That's interesting, because Gautama Buddha himself didn't speak out against suicide. In fact, one of his disciples who killed himself when experiencing a terminal illness. Gautama said that he had detached from life and had achieved enlightenment. Enlightened actions don't lead worse conditions for rebirth but better, whether higher, or the ultimate Nirvana.

Another example. When Gautama came back from a retreat, he was informed that during his absence, a large number of monks had either killed themselves or gotten another monk to kill them (to increase his merit), because they took literally Gautama's teaching to hate the body. He didn't condemn their actions, nor did he admit to a fault in his teaching; he instead offered a means to manage such strong feelings when they arose in hatred of the body.

I hope you didn't hear my comment as argumentative or combative. I took notice because I've studied this and am surprised that a Buddhist master would make such a claim. Perhaps it depends on what school(s) of Buddhism that developed from the original teachings.

 

[Kumachan]

Life is a test/life is not a test
Both equally unprovable statements

if it is a test tho, "who" is being put to the test?

 

[Shamana]

That's interesting, because Gautama Buddha himself didn't speak out against suicide. In fact, one of his disciples who killed himself when experiencing a terminal illness. Gautama said that he had detached from life and had achieved enlightenment. Enlightened actions don't lead worse conditions for rebirth but better, whether higher, or the ultimate Nirvana.

Another example. When Gautama came back from a retreat, he was informed that during his absence, a large number of monks had either killed themselves or gotten another monk to kill them (to increase his merit), because they took literally Gautama's teaching to hate the body. He didn't condemn their actions, nor did he admit to a fault in his teaching; he instead offered a means to manage such strong feelings when they arose in hatred of the body.

I hope you didn't hear my comment as argumentative or combative. I took notice because I've studied this and am surprised that a Buddhist master would make such a claim. Perhaps it depends on what school(s) of Buddhism that developed from the original teachings.

The reason why Gautama let 2 Arharts commit suicide when their body was ruined by illness was because he saw that their mind was already liberated from samsara, so there was no longer a cause for rebirth.

When Gautama saw the monks that monks had comitted suicide because of meditating on the revulsion of the human body, he taught that encouraing suicide is equal to encouraging killing another and would lead to immediate expulsion of the sangha.

Siddharta is not the only master who is canon in buddhism either, anyone who has geniuenly attained enlightment will do.

The whole reason why buddhadharma exists at all is because part of the problem is that death doesn't end suffering. My former buddhist teacher who practiced and studied with the greatest masters of the Vajrayana traditions said that whenever someone had comitted suicide and he asked the greatest masters whether they found what they were looking for the answer was always no.

Actually the bardo state itself after death is aid to be traumatic for almost everyone who has not realized the nature of the mind. It's not really meant to be fear mongering, but more a stern warning that killing your body is not liberation.

You don't have to believe in buddhism though.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

My former buddhist teacher who practiced and studied with the greatest masters of the Vajrayana traditions said that whenever someone had comitted suicide and he asked the greatest masters whether they found what they were looking for the answer was always no.

Interesting. How did the greatest masters know whether someone who had died by suicide did or did not find what they sought?

The whole reason why buddhadharma exists at all is because part of the problem is that suicide doesn't end suffering

Interesting perspective. I've never heard that before. Can you provide a source?


Also, I'm curious about something, and of course I take no offense nor judge if you don't choose to answer....

Do you believe these things that you were taught by great masters? If yes, I'm curious as to how this forum attracts and serves you as it seems to be in direct contrast to these teachings.

 

[lostangel]

In my opinion we're all here to learn the same types of lessons. If we fail in this endeavor then we're given reincarnation. Again, this is just an opinion.

I have heard many people claim this. But instead of lessons, it's purpose. I fear either of them being true because then that could make things worse as in re-incarnation.

 

[Shamana]

Interesting. How did the greatest masters know whether someone who had died by suicide did or did not find what they sought?



Interesting perspective. I've never heard that before. Can you provide a source?


Also, I'm curious about something, and of course I take no offense nor judge if you don't choose to answer....

Do you believe these things that you were taught by great masters? If yes, I'm curious as to how this forum attracts and serves you as it seems to be in direct contrast to these teachings.

Enlightened masters are said to be able to do so through their great clairvoyance. One of the qualities of buddhahood is omniscience which is attributted to buddhas, and Siddharta recollected all his former lives from this.

My source on what the vajrayana masters told my former buddhist teacher is my former buddhist himself. I have known him for many years, and lived 3 minutes away from him some years ago. When my meltdown started and starting seriously contemplating suicide, I asked him about all this stuff.

I know that this contradictory to being on this board, but I am also honestly a shitty buddhist, however the belief that suicide will not provide me relief at all is one the main factors in preventing me from doing so. I no longer consider a practicing buddhist, just a beliveing one.

And yes, I geniuenly believe in enlightment, rebirth, the buddhas teaching etc. Those are beliefs I have accepted after many years of practice, studying, experimenting and having close relations with real people who I consider and are considers by others buddhist masters to be enlightened. Its not a blind belief.

I could bring up some quotes from contempary buddhist teachers but it will just scare the shit out of everyone.

 

[ceelo]

Imagine engaging in tests where everyone fails in the end? seems pretty daft to me.

 

[muffin222]

I agree. This is one reason I struggle endlessly to actually pull the plug and follow through. I can't help but wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to just finish out this life and learn whatever lessons I need to learn rather than abort it prematurely and wind up re-incarnated into another life to do it all over again.

Then again, there really is no way to prove that any of this actually happens, so it seems to come down to an intuitive decision.

 

[itsamadworld]

Thanks for the share! I am still at a complete loss as to what awaits us after-life! I hope that I pleased the powers that be so as they don't torment me moreso in the future, if there are any gawds at all? But I still have this curiosity in the divine every now and again. But I am just so limited in my scope. I think humans are purposefully kept from the truth. Maybe so that we have fear of the unknown, so that we don't CBT. It's all part of a increase the population agenda, maybe? IDK?...I think that there are a lot of paradoxes on this planet and a lot of inconsistencies, and a LOT of lies.....

 

[mpnf]

Enlightened masters are said to be able to do so through their great clairvoyance. One of the qualities of buddhahood is omniscience which is attributted to buddhas, and Siddharta recollected all his former lives from this.

My source on what the vajrayana masters told my former buddhist teacher is my former buddhist himself. I have known him for many years, and lived 3 minutes away from him some years ago. When my meltdown started and starting seriously contemplating suicide, I asked him about all this stuff.

I know that this contradictory to being on this board, but I am also honestly a shitty buddhist, however the belief that suicide will not provide me relief at all is one the main factors in preventing me from doing so. I no longer consider a practicing buddhist, just a beliveing one.

And yes, I geniuenly believe in enlightment, rebirth, the buddhas teaching etc. Those are beliefs I have accepted after many years of practice, studying, experimenting and having close relations with real people who I consider and are considers by others buddhist masters to be enlightened. Its not a blind belief.

I could bring up some quotes from contempary buddhist teachers but it will just scare the shit out of everyone.

Does buddhism explains death as a state of mind? Do we create our own pain and regret in our spiritual consciousness?

If not, there is hell or heaven in your religion?
When someone kills itself, where do we go according to your clairvoyant masters?

Thanks

 

[TheRaul95]

Ego never accepts the Truth :)

 

[last_tour]

In early buddhism (I say this because there are many different schools with different opinions) their stance on death when reading about the story of Vakkalli and the mother that lost her child as well as what the monk says in this video is clear. They don't judge the two states (life or death) as good or bad like most people would, but see it as two different states of a larger evolutionary process. He didn't mean life is a test, he was implying his family members fixated on his suicide rather than think of other parts of his life. This is like saying suicide is just another way we transition out of a human form.
This story about the mother who lost her child is another example of how early buddhism and how the monk in the video probably see's life and death:

 

[Shamana]

Does buddhism explains death as a state of mind? Do we create our own pain and regret in our spiritual consciousness?

If not, there is hell or heaven in your religion?
When someone kills itself, where do we go according to your clairvoyant masters?

Thanks

In budhism death is kind of an illusion, since the mind in not a thing and therefore cannot die, however losing the body is not comfortable as the mind has no anchor. There are hells in buddhism, but they are not eternal and heavenly abodes as well but they are not eternal.

A woman whom is stepdaughter of my former buddhist master told me what happended to 2 friends she had who had comitted suicide, she could see what it was like being them that day, how it felt for them being strangled, where they were after death and how she tried to help them.

I would rather not venture into what happens in general to people who commit suicide, because I honestly don't know and actually the buddhist teachings are somewhat contradictory because there is one part that says that you will be born into the lower realms(animal realm or lower) and another part that says you will commit suicide again in hundreds of lives in the future which is more less only possible for humans... And lemmings I suppose.