Brief Set of Possible Simplistic Realities?

[TrailerTrash]

I've been thinking a lot about various posts on SS and would appreciate input on whether these simple perspectives are in any way valid. This is not intended to advocate for any decision(s) members of this site may be contemplating .... it's just comparative logic I'm trying to work out for myself.

1) People are afraid to CTB because they do not know what's on the other side; however, what is waiting will always be waiting anyway. If what's waiting it good then great, if it's nothingness or bad - and life was bad - then does CTB to have less "bad lifetime" equate to an overall reduction in the total sum of "bad time" during a person's existence on earth and beyond?

2) People are afraid to CTB because they do not want discomfort or fear. If the choice is to pass slowly from ongoing mental/physical/life/aging maladies this appears to be greater discomfort/fear, hence the PPH and various right-to-die movements. Absent some life/perspective altering transformation, fear will be there ....... now and days/months/years from now.

Just trying to assess what I may gain/lose and what aspects/outcomes will always be the same no matter what I decide.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I've been thinking a lot about various posts on SS and would appreciate input on whether these simple perspectives are in any way valid. This is not intended to advocate for any decision(s) members of this site may be contemplating .... it's just comparative logic I'm trying to work out for myself.

1) People are afraid to CTB because they do not know what's on the other side; however, what is waiting will always be waiting anyway. If what's waiting it good then great, if it's nothingness or bad - and life was bad - then does CTB to have less "bad lifetime" equate to an overall reduction in the total sum of "bad time" during a person's existence on earth and beyond?

2) People are afraid to CTB because they do not want discomfort or fear. If the choice is to pass slowly from ongoing mental/physical/life/aging maladies this appears to be greater discomfort/fear, hence the PPH and various right-to-die movements. Absent some life/perspective altering transformation, fear will be there ....... now and days/months/years from now.

Just trying to assess what I may gain/lose and what aspects/outcomes will always be the same no matter what I decide.

Some insightful thoughts. I watched a short documentary that addresses at least some of these points... I just need to remember what it's called...then will post it..,

 

[TotallyIsolated]

I once read that "you wont be able to enjoy being dead". By the same token, noone can CTB and then tell us what its like. I rather take this to imply that there is no other side, but thats a matter for each of us personally I suppose.

Do you mean "to be or not to be"; should one CTB? or do you mean what are the reasons one might choose not to?

 

[MissNietzsche]

Nah, in my mind, I'm 100% certain I will cease to exist and nothingness will greet me. I see it as akin to what life was like, or lack thereof, before I was born. I'm a total atheist through and through haha.

I was raised catholic though..a lot of atheists I've met were raised theist and vice versa for the agnostics I've known

 

[Ame]

1) People are afraid to CTB because they do not know what's on the other side; however, what is waiting will always be waiting anyway. If what's waiting it good then great, if it's nothingness or bad - and life was bad - then does CTB to have less "bad lifetime" equate to an overall reduction in the total sum of "bad time" during a person's existence on earth and beyond?

This more or less describes one of the ways that I have attempted to rationalize my decision and assuage my "anxiety" (it is not anxiety per se, it is meant to act as a place holder because I'm struggling to pin down the most appropriate word) surrounding CTB. Often, I remind myself of the following:

Our time on this earth is finite and is nought but the tiniest of intervals on the great axis of time. As time goes on (and as far as we know the arrow of time only travels in one direction) and stretches ever onward toward infinity, our life relative to the amount of time elapsed becomes less and less, gradually approaching zero.

At some point, can it even be said that we were even here? The reality is that we were, but in the grand scheme of things, our lives - whether we CTB or die of natural causes is irrelevant seeing as death comes to claim all living things - may not even come up as a blip on the "radar". Potentially tangentially related to this would be Kierkegaard's concept of the "absurd".

 

[MeltingHeart]

This more or less describes one of the ways that I have attempted to rationalize my decision and assuage my "anxiety" (it is not anxiety per se, it is meant to act as a place holder because I'm struggling to pin down the most appropriate word) surrounding CTB. Often, I remind myself of the following:

Our time on this earth is finite and is nought but the tiniest of intervals on the great axis of time. As time goes on (and as far as we know the arrow of time only travels in one direction) and stretches ever onward toward infinity, our life relative to the amount of time elapsed becomes less and less, gradually approaching zero.

At some point, can it even be said that we were even here? The reality is that we were, but in the grand scheme of things, our lives - whether we CTB or die of natural causes is irrelevant seeing as death comes to claim all living things - may not even come up as a blip on the "radar". Potentially tangentially related to this would be Kierkegaard' concept of the "absurd".

wow-very good English for it not being yr first language! some good points too. Sure are some smart and insightful people on here.

 

[Science Is Scary]

One thing not to forget about is opportunity cost. Opportunity cost is what one loses by not choosing the best alternative.

It's not really a fair comparison if one compares suicide versus making no changes and living out a miserable life. The fairer comparison is suicide versus whatever the best option is. For some people, that may be treatment. For other people there may be no better option than being miserable.

 

[MeltingHeart]

One man's defense of his own suicide / Documentary looks at his 'rational' act

Using the "cost-benefit ratio" that has brought him so much financial success and...

www.sfgate.com

This is an article about the docu I was talking about, it was all up on YT t'other day, but now I can only find the trailer for it.
He is an older chap and he is also unwell (though not necessarily terminal)-but he was a very logical & judicious man and had always applied what he called cost-benefit ratio in every decision in his life-even proposing to his wife! He had a very sucessful and happy life thus far applying this 'rule' by which to live by.. It sounds a little similar to what @Science Is Scary mentions. So it seems he used this same 'method' of reasoning he had used all his life to decide to end his own life too. Even though he was a bit older & also ill, i think some of these ideas or his kind of rational frame work could be applied to those a bit younger (maybe say mid-age -as you are half way through yr life) to also assess or 'weigh up' the options & their own thoughts on wanting to end their life.

 

[Ame]

One thing not to forget about is opportunity cost. Opportunity cost is what one loses by not choosing the best alternative.

It's not really a fair comparison if one compares suicide versus making no changes and living out a miserable life. The fairer comparison is suicide versus whatever the best option is. For some people, that may be treatment. For other people there may be no better option than being miserable.

Hopefully OP returns to this thread and weighs in so that we may try to establish the validity of their proposed comparison benchmarks. I could be wrong, but my understanding was that they were making reference to a case in which the alternative to suicide was a living a life that was (from the perspective of the person living it) irredeemable and where the quality of life could not be improved (even with treatment and lifestyle changes) to an extent that said person would consider satisfactory.

Granted we could always argue that the person in this comparison may not be capable of making a proper assessment of all of the potential outcomes due to their own biases and cognitive distortions...but that is another can of worms all together. Questions like these must have come up as legislation was being made for euthanasia, it could be something to look into.

 

[TrailerTrash]

I once read that "you wont be able to enjoy being dead". By the same token, noone can CTB and then tell us what its like. I rather take this to imply that there is no other side, but thats a matter for each of us personally I suppose.

Do you mean "to be or not to be"; should one CTB? or do you mean what are the reasons one might choose not to?

The latter .... Mostly trying to determine the reasons I should or should not CTB.

This more or less describes one of the ways that I have attempted to rationalize my decision and assuage my "anxiety" (it is not anxiety per se, it is meant to act as a place holder because I'm struggling to pin down the most appropriate word) surrounding CTB. Often, I remind myself of the following:

Our time on this earth is finite and is nought but the tiniest of intervals on the great axis of time. As time goes on (and as far as we know the arrow of time only travels in one direction) and stretches ever onward toward infinity, our life relative to the amount of time elapsed becomes less and less, gradually approaching zero.

At some point, can it even be said that we were even here? The reality is that we were, but in the grand scheme of things, our lives - whether we CTB or die of natural causes is irrelevant seeing as death comes to claim all living things - may not even come up as a blip on the "radar". Potentially tangentially related to this would be Kierkegaard's concept of the "absurd".

Couldn't have said it better ..... yes.

 

[Stan]

I think there might be a 3rd one which is Impact. Some people maybe in a position that they are a parent, main bread winner or some other reason. You see those comments here quite a lot.

 

[TrailerTrash]

One thing not to forget about is opportunity cost. Opportunity cost is what one loses by not choosing the best alternative.

It's not really a fair comparison if one compares suicide versus making no changes and living out a miserable life. The fairer comparison is suicide versus whatever the best option is. For some people, that may be treatment. For other people there may be no better option than being miserable.

Yes, agree completely, was trying to keep the original post short and didn't want to expand too much. Treatment or some palliative approach(es) are viable as well ...... since I've tried these alternatives it's left me with to CTB or not CTB.

One man's defense of his own suicide / Documentary looks at his 'rational' act

Using the "cost-benefit ratio" that has brought him so much financial success and...

www.sfgate.com

This is an article about the docu I was talking about, it was all up on YT t'other day, but now I can only find the trailer for it.
He is an older chap and he is also unwell (though not necessarily terminal)-but he was a very logical & judicious man and had always applied what he called cost-benefit ratio in every decision in his life-even proposing to his wife! He had a very sucessful and happy life thus far applying this 'rule' by which to live by.. It sounds a little similar to what @Science Is Scary mentions. So it seems he used this same 'method' of reasoning he had used all his life to decide to end his own life too. Even though he was a bit older & also ill, i think some of these ideas or his kind of rational frame work could be applied to those a bit younger (maybe say mid-age -as you are half way through yr life) to also assess or 'weigh up' the options & their own thoughts on wanting to end their life.

Thanks for this ....

I think there might be a 3rd one which is Impact. Some people maybe in a position that they are a parent, main bread winner or some other reason. You see those comments here quite a lot.

Good point .... and people think CTB is easy decision or way out! I think not ....

 

[dumdumdedum]

1) People are afraid to CTB because they do not know what's on the other side; however, what is waiting will always be waiting anyway. If what's waiting it good then great, if it's nothingness or bad - and life was bad - then does CTB to have less "bad lifetime" equate to an overall reduction in the total sum of "bad time" during a person's existence on earth and beyond?

there is one aspect here not addressed (maybe it is implicit, pardon me if it is): the possibility of "improving" what's on the other side. this is the old adage of karma, redemption, purgatory, what have you, etc, where the consequences of a life lived justly and honorably on earth translates to a "better" other-world. hell, there's a whole show about it these days, "the good place".

as an agnostic atheist, i simply don't know which theory is correct. i suspect none of us truly know, and that is the truly rational answer. millenia of cultural traditions may be totally wrong, and the hindus, and buddhists, and countless indigeneous peoples of the world may be wrong, but historical inertia is a real thing.

so: i'd add an addendum to your first point. people are afraid to ctb because if they could improve their lives a little bit, do good in the world, the other side would receive them more warmly.

of course, not everyone can "improve" their lives, etc. caveat emptor.

 

[FohPah]

Your optimal time to die is the last moment in your life such that you could honestly (with full awareness and sanity, and careful consideration) look back on that moment and say, "I'm glad I at least lived up to that point."

The confidence with which you can end your life right now is your confidence that your optimal time to die is not in your future.