being alive in a system is inherently unenjoyable

[okyeah]

If you are not part of a small community and can make your own living on your own terms you will never be truly happy. Unless you got a big family that sticks together you won't be happy. The self-made individual is a myth. Only people born into support groups and big families succeed. Everyone else is forced to just cope.

There is a reason I am genuinely more happy not working and just living with my parents. I cannot delude myself into thinking there are any real friends out there besides my own blood. Coping is all I have left. I'm just going to play guitar and video games until I die. Middle class life is a giant pyramid scheme scam.

 

[Johnnythefox]

The self-made individual is a myth.

The people on these lists appear to have come from relatively poor backgrounds.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/282092

https://www.forbes.com/sites/object...oesnt-mean-youll-always-be-poor/#4d57169f5929

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/11/10-billionaires-who-grew-up-dirt-poor.html

Thereby discrediting your statement that the self made individual is a myth. I know for certain that there are many many more people who have come from nothing to build up a business empire, and some who have left school with no qualifications and no college or university experience.
You seem to have an obsession with class! and frequently refer to the middle class.
I am curious to know if you have ever experienced true hardship/poverty in your life.
I too would love to live in a house at my parents expense playing with my geetar and other toys all day, and not have to worry about paying the mortgage, the bills or food etc.
Unfortunately I can't afford that luxury as my father is now dead and my mother is in a care home, and her house had to be sold to pay for said care.

 

[gingerplum]

The people on these lists appear to have come from relatively poor backgrounds.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/282092

https://www.forbes.com/sites/object...oesnt-mean-youll-always-be-poor/#4d57169f5929

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/11/10-billionaires-who-grew-up-dirt-poor.html

Thereby discrediting your statement that the self made individual is a myth. I know for certain that there are many many more people who have come from nothing to build up a business empire, and some who have left school with no qualifications and no college or university experience.
You seem to have an obsession with class! and frequently refer to the middle class.
I am curious to know if you have ever experienced true hardship/poverty in your life.
I too would love to live in a house at my parents expense playing with my geetar and other toys all day, and not have to worry about paying the mortgage, the bills or food etc.
Unfortunately I can't afford that luxury as my father is now dead and my mother is in a care home, and her house had to be sold to pay for said care.

I have to agree with you. There's plenty of people who came from nothing and had shitty families. The guy who founded Starbucks grew up in a veritable slum and dreamed of a nice family. Oprah freaking Winfrey grew up dirt poor, being molested by an uncle and ending up a pregnant runaway at age 14.

I'm not a fan of bootstrapism, but I'm also not a fan of using your circumstances as a complete copout, especially when so many others work so hard to overcome so much more.

 

[Lra888]

If you are not part of a small community and can make your own living on your own terms you will never be truly happy. Unless you got a big family that sticks together you won't be happy. The self-made individual is a myth. Only people born into support groups and big families succeed. Everyone else is forced to just cope.

There is a reason I am genuinely more happy not working and just living with my parents. I cannot delude myself into thinking there are any real friends out there besides my own blood. Coping is all I have left. I'm just going to play guitar and video games until I die. Middle class life is a giant pyramid scheme scam.

Agree. I always hated the threat that safety/freedom will be taken away if you don't have a full time career. If anything goes wrong where you cannot be a contributing part of the system you will suffer. I tried and things went wrong many times and I realized I cannot keep things going for decades. SOme people have safety and support but I dont so I cant just survive especially since im mentally fucked much of the time.

 

[okyeah]

The people on these lists appear to have come from relatively poor backgrounds.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/282092

https://www.forbes.com/sites/object...oesnt-mean-youll-always-be-poor/#4d57169f5929

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/11/10-billionaires-who-grew-up-dirt-poor.html

Thereby discrediting your statement that the self made individual is a myth. I know for certain that there are many many more people who have come from nothing to build up a business empire, and some who have left school with no qualifications and no college or university experience.
You seem to have an obsession with class! and frequently refer to the middle class.
I am curious to know if you have ever experienced true hardship/poverty in your life.
I too would love to live in a house at my parents expense playing with my geetar and other toys all day, and not have to worry about paying the mortgage, the bills or food etc.
Unfortunately I can't afford that luxury as my father is now dead and my mother is in a care home, and her house had to be sold to pay for said care.

LMAO. for every 3 people you list there are millions that have failed. You are incredibly naive. Did I make you mad because I criticized women? I could go get a phD right now if I wanted to but I'd rather kill myself because why the fuck would I do that? Both my parents have phDs and yet they live MISERABLE fucking lives. I have experienced true poverty. My family was broke as fuck until i was in 4th grade and my dad finally got a middle class job to support me. You don't know me at all and you can't comprehend what it has been like for me. You are brainwashed by corporations and the government. You think there is some carrot you can chase. Let me tell you right now - there isn't. It's an illusion to keep you slaving and paying taxes. That's it.

 

[okyeah]

I have to agree with you. There's plenty of people who came from nothing and had shitty families. The guy who founded Starbucks grew up in a veritable slum and dreamed of a nice family. Oprah freaking Winfrey grew up dirt poor, being molested by an uncle and ending up a pregnant runaway at age 14.

I'm not a fan of bootstrapism, but I'm also not a fan of using your circumstances as a complete copout, especially when so many others work so hard to overcome so much more.

That's fine. Centrism keeps you working hard for the people that own this country. Have a nice life. I'm on this forum because I know it's not worth it.

 

[Lra888]

LMAO. for every 3 people you list there are millions that have failed. You are incredibly naive. Did I make you mad because I criticized women? I could go get a phD right now if I wanted to but I'd rather kill myself because why the fuck would I do that? Both my parents have phDs and yet they live MISERABLE fucking lives. I have experienced true poverty. My family was broke as fuck until i was in 4th grade and my dad finally got a middle class job to support me. You don't know me at all and you can't comprehend what it has been like for me. You are brainwashed by corporations and the government. You think there is some carrot you can chase. Let me tell you right now - there isn't. It's an illusion to keep you slaving and paying taxes. That's it.

My friend has a masters degree and is on welfare.

 

[okyeah]

You guys are really fucking ironic coming onto a suicide forum and basically spouting bootstrap ideology and acting like you're better than people because you slave at a job. It's people that haven't really socialized amongst the ACTUAL poor people that are the worst type of person. The limousine liberal if you will. Go live in the fucking projects for a little bit and tell me you don't come out of there hating the world and everyone in it. Now go try being asian and live in the projects. LMFAOOOOOOO you guys are so sheltered it makes me laugh

 

[Lra888]

You guys are really fucking ironic coming onto a suicide forum and basically spouting bootstrap ideology and acting like you're better than people because you slave at a job. It's people that haven't really socialized amongst the ACTUAL poor people that are the worst type of person. The limousine liberal if you will. Go live in the fucking projects for a little bit and tell me you don't come out of there hating the world and everyone in it. Now go try being asian and live in the projects. LMFAOOOOOOO you guys are so sheltered it makes me laugh

Agree. I live in Brooklyn and the amount of liberals who are "concerned" about the poor from their completely sheltered life is just unbelievable. Single mothers with no fucking food living a few blocks away from millionaire "luxury apts" and the people do not care whatsoever yet they pride themselves as being super woke and feminist but the single mother can rot away right in front of them because they need to maintain their luxury lifestyle because "everyone is equal" and that dying woman has just as much of a chance to start a business as everyone else. They are concerned but they would never actually help that person. A person living in the projects cannot just become a tech entrepreneur.

(drunk post - hope it reads okay)

 

[okyeah]

Actually, working is really the only thing that gives me a sense of accomplishment and community. But I also volunteer at a homeless shelter and a trap/neuter/release program for feral cats.

I'm sure I'd be even more depressed if I was the kind of social parasite content to play video games all day on my parents' dime.

But that's just me.

You have a good life, too.

lol that's cute. Why are you even on here then? I'm ready to die, just waiting for the nembutal. I pay rent for an apartment so I'm not actually even living on my parents' dime.

You are clearly not ready to die if you think work and volunteering is fun.

 

[Smilla]

I have to agree with you. There's plenty of people who came from nothing and had shitty families. The guy who founded Starbucks grew up in a veritable slum and dreamed of a nice family. Oprah freaking Winfrey grew up dirt poor, being molested by an uncle and ending up a pregnant runaway at age 14.

I'm not a fan of bootstrapism, but I'm also not a fan of using your circumstances as a complete copout, especially when so many others work so hard to overcome so much more.

Oprah had a father who truly cared for her; I read he instructed her to learn five new vocabulary words per day, or else she got a whoopin!

I think OP is disillusioned and, really, there are valid reasons for this. The gap between the rich and the poor grows by the minute, and without a now exorbitantly expensive college education the odds are stacked against you unless you are gifted in some way, like Oprah, and lucky, like Oprah.

For young people starting out today it must be horrible to start off with so much debt, and the UK has a serious housing crisis as do parts of the US.

The highest rates of suicide are among white middle aged males without a college education—men who couldn't adjust to the information economy.

And without going into too many personal details I personally know one person who helped invent the first HIV drug only to be laid off 20 years later at the ripe old age of 57. Not too many biotech companies want to hire phds at that age.

Corporations DO own people. I worked for accounting firms and the nepotism was blatant and horrible to witness. And two weeks vacation after three years of slaving away.

Failed at starting my own firm but fuck I did try.

And we can't dispute the stats that show most people dislike their jobs or don't find them meaningful.

There aren't any easy solutions or answers but I think the motto hard work always pays is a bit old fashioned—too many unknowns and pitfalls.

OP should try to do something though because sitting around all day is a sure ticket to depression.

 

[okyeah]

Oprah had a father who truly cared for her; I read he instructed her to learn five new vocabulary words per day, or else she got a whoopin!

I think OP is disillusioned and, really, there are valid reasons for this. The gap between the rich and the poor grows by the minute, and without a now exorbitantly expensive college education the odds are stacked against you unless you are gifted in some way, like Oprah, and lucky, like Oprah.

For young people starting out today it must be horrible to start off with so much debt, and the UK has a serious housing crisis as do parts of the US.

The highest rates of suicide are among white middle aged males without a college education—men who couldn't adjust to the information economy.

And without going into too many personal details I personally know one person who helped invent the first HIV drug only to be laid off 20 years later at the ripe old age of 57. Not too many biotech companies want to hire phds at that age.

Corporations DO own people. I worked for accounting firms and the nepotism was blatant and horrible to witness. And two weeks vacation after three years of slaving away.

Failed at starting my own firm but fuck I did try.

And we can't dispute the stats that show most people dislike their jobs or don't find them meaningful.

There aren't any easy solutions or answers but I think the motto hard work always pays is a bit old fashioned—too many unknowns and pitfalls.

OP should try to do something though because sitting around all day is a sure ticket to depression.

I'm nihilistic. It makes people uncomfortable because they can't even comprehend how they are not actually ready to die. I am ACTUALLY ready to die. I take lexapro to keep the depression away. It works. I can go weeks without going outside.

I'm glad you pointed out how Oprah had a competent father. That's the big difference.

I have no love for anyone. I don't even know if I know what love feels like. I don't love my own parents and I don't know if I ever have.

There is a great progressive delusion amongst people these days that somehow they care about the lower class and blah blah blah, it's all a big fat lie used by people to further their careers and what-not. I hate it all so much, I just need to get out of this absurd world.

 

[okyeah]

The people on these lists appear to have come from relatively poor backgrounds.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/282092

https://www.forbes.com/sites/object...oesnt-mean-youll-always-be-poor/#4d57169f5929

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/11/10-billionaires-who-grew-up-dirt-poor.html

Thereby discrediting your statement that the self made individual is a myth. I know for certain that there are many many more people who have come from nothing to build up a business empire, and some who have left school with no qualifications and no college or university experience.
You seem to have an obsession with class! and frequently refer to the middle class.
I am curious to know if you have ever experienced true hardship/poverty in your life.
I too would love to live in a house at my parents expense playing with my geetar and other toys all day, and not have to worry about paying the mortgage, the bills or food etc.
Unfortunately I can't afford that luxury as my father is now dead and my mother is in a care home, and her house had to be sold to pay for said care.

Can I ask you something johnny? Have you ever grown up in a place where you had to walk the extra long way home because gangs of black kids would beat you and spit on you up if you didn't? Let me guess...No you haven't. Surprise! I have.

 

[gingerplum]

Oprah had a father who truly cared for her; I read he instructed her to learn five new vocabulary words per day, or else she got a whoopin!

I think OP is disillusioned and, really, there are valid reasons for this. The gap between the rich and the poor grows by the minute, and without a now exorbitantly expensive college education the odds are stacked against you unless you are gifted in some way, like Oprah, and lucky, like Oprah.

For young people starting out today it must be horrible to start off with so much debt, and the UK has a serious housing crisis as do parts of the US.

The highest rates of suicide are among white middle aged males without a college education—men who couldn't adjust to the information economy.

And without going into too many personal details I personally know one person who helped invent the first HIV drug only to be laid off 20 years later at the ripe old age of 57. Not too many biotech companies want to hire phds at that age.

Corporations DO own people. I worked for accounting firms and the nepotism was blatant and horrible to witness. And two weeks vacation after three years of slaving away.

Failed at starting my own firm but fuck I did try.

And we can't dispute the stats that show most people dislike their jobs or don't find them meaningful.

There aren't any easy solutions or answers but I think the motto hard work always pays is a bit old fashioned—too many unknowns and pitfalls.

OP should try to do something though because sitting around all day is a sure ticket to depression.

You are right.

One of the hardest lessons for me to learn as an adult was that it's not how smart you are, how much education you have, or how hard you work... it's who you know. It's all about nepotism and cronyism, not who's the best, most qualified candidate.

I'm fortunate because I am well known and well liked in my community, but that wouldn't have happened if I had holed up by myself playing video games.

Damn it, Smilla, stick around awhile. That hour you were banned was rough ;)

 

[Smilla]

You are right.

One of the hardest lessons for me to learn as an adult was that it's not how smart you are, how much education you have, or how hard you work... it's who you know. It's all about nepotism and cronyism, not who's the best, most qualified candidate.

I'm fortunate because I am well known and well liked in my community, but that wouldn't have happened if I had holed up by myself playing video games.

Damn it, Smilla, stick around awhile. That hour you were banned was rough ;)

Ouch.

 

[ReadyasEver]

Easy folks. There are many perspectives, nobody is totally right and totally wrong. I've seen poverty and actually lived it for awhile as a kid. My dad's business went under, he lost everything. We were on government assistance for several years. For a couple years, aunts and uncles got us a Christmas present because my parents were having a hard enough time keeping us fed and clothed. He went through a rough time, he got through it. By the time I was in high school, we were back on our feet decently. He refused to throw in towel, and got back on his feet. He worked his ass off for his family and it took his life at 61. One thing I admired about him, he always put his family's needs above his own every time. He was a selfless individual.
None of us brothers ever reached his level of selflessness. I think this is the key to a rewarding life, when you put the needs of others above your own. There's a very defined purpose to this approach when you adopt it.

 

[Severen]

I'm fortunate because I am well known and well liked in my community, but that wouldn't have happened if I had holed up by myself playing video games.

okyeah could go out everyday and become well known but that wouldn't get him jack shit because of his personality. And you are born with your personality. Like many people, he never had a chance. Put okyeah in a group of mainstream people and he would probably get lynched... The system doesn't like his kind. Staying home and playing video games all the time, would be a better use of his time. So when it comes to his life, I think he is correct about a lot of things.

 

[Severen]

lol that's cute. Why are you even on here then? I'm ready to die, just waiting for the nembutal. I pay rent for an apartment so I'm not actually even living on my parents' dime.

You are clearly not ready to die if you think work and volunteering is fun.

You can think working and volunteering is fun and still have good reasons to CTB. Let's not be so quick to judge.

 

[ReadyasEver]

okyeah, up until I decide the time is right, I will continue to try and reinforce through action and words, to be more of a benefit to those around me than a hinderance. I understand everyone's situation is different making this either easy or incredibly difficult to do. Being a benefit is as simple as a smile or a thank you, it does not need to be anything huge. Life might be a negative for us, but there are people who exist that are not predatory, narcissistic, or manipulating.

 

[Threads]

I think that OP is very blackpilled and jaded. I share his many of his views, but not for the reasons he has his.

I stay home and play vidya game most of the day as well. I go to the gym twice a day. I also do my own hobbies. Papercraft/Origami, poetry, I am part of a bunch of different communities. I read, and go to the library once a week and pick up new literature and film to watch that I can't get on my streaming services. I like to cook. I try to go to the gun range twice a month. I enjoy exotic coffees. I enjoy foreign film.

Society left me hanging. I'm fairly certain if the school district, my childhood therapists, older sibling, and the church acted on what they suspected, I wouldn't be in the grave condition I'm in today. I made enough money on bitcoin to where I don't have to work, but working does help me immensely. Without a paycheck, I'm on basic sustenance. I've been homeless, I've been broke. It sucks. It's unfair. The current political paradigm in the West is also just banter and bullshit, there are no viable solutions presented by either political parties for long term fixing the shitfest that we've been lead into it, and older generations are still fucking millennials out of God knows how many prospects.

I think OP is wrong about volunteering and working, at least in my opinion. I want to volunteer on a hospice unit at a hospital to help people. I set up an interview and have done the required seminar and got my CPR cert. I think that there is fulfillment, but fulfillment is found within yourself. I have severe CPTSD, I have a hard enough time leaving the house. I wasn't having these problems a month ago, I just get really bad during the holiday season. Hopefully after this, I'll be in better shape. But I get where OP is coming from.

The game is rigged and for those who choose not to play, I don't blame them. There is nothing wrong with cheating a system that is built to intentionally cheat you. But with that in mind, there are ways to build yourself without having to work within the system. You can develop yourself and improve yourself. But that in itself is an entirely different thread.

 

[okyeah]

You can think working and volunteering is fun and still have good reasons to CTB. Let's not be so quick to judge.

That's where you're wrong. It's all psychological and it's easy to predict a person's behavior especially when they think the way this person does. At a shallow level of thinking. I can predict this person will never kill themselves. Right now.

 

[Threads]

That's where you're wrong. It's all psychological and it's easy to predict a person's behavior especially when they think the way this person does. At a shallow level of thinking. I can predict this person will never kill themselves. Right now.

I don't think that you have the power to make an accurate prediction whether someone will or will not CTB by what they post here. You can't put yourself into just anyone's shoes. Unless you are well experienced (And well educated) predicting if someone will or will not CTB is impossible, especially if you are only going by what they post on an internet forum.

 

[okyeah]

I don't think that you have the power to make an accurate prediction whether someone will or will not CTB by what they post here. You can't put yourself into just anyone's shoes. Unless you are well experienced (And well educated) predicting if someone will or will not CTB is impossible, especially if you are only going by what they post on an internet forum.

Fair enough. I'd bet money on it though. People are just animals and you can predict behavior pretty easily. It's not hard. Especially when you find out how they think.

 

[Threads]

Fair enough. I'd bet money on it though. People are just animals and you can predict behavior pretty easily. It's not hard. Especially when you find out how they think.

You are taking a very complex subject (Neuroscience, evolution, biology, psychology, amongst many others) and simplifying in a way that isn't truly quantifiable. It's very difficult to predict complex behaviors such as suicide in humans. We're not talking about human peer bonding. We're talking about a behavior that very much goes against our own biology that has been rooted into us over the period of 4 billion years. Saying that we can easily predict such a behavior is a farce. However, suicide can be predicted. Not necessarily easily however. It is difficult and requires years of experience, education, or training to be able to truly identify the signs that someone is in imminent threat of taking their life.

Yes, we can predict that certain groups of people are going to do or pursue certain things or people in certain situations and under certain conditions. Yes, we can examine and make accurate predictions on human behavior. But for the most part, that is at best a theory and at worst a hypothesis, neither are absolutes. Now, just because something isn't an absolute doesn't mean it is wrong. Often times, something can be 99.9% correct, and not be a scientific law. So, you're not entirely wrong in your thinking, you're just wrong in some of your application of it.

 

[About_to_Go]

I don't think that you have the power to make an accurate prediction whether someone will or will not CTB by what they post here. You can't put yourself into just anyone's shoes. Unless you are well experienced (And well educated) predicting if someone will or will not CTB is impossible, especially if you are only going by what they post on an internet forum.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand that enjoying working and volunteering and being seriously suicidal are completely mutually exclusive. Without a solid grasp of human psychology, most of the signs will go over a typical person's head. There's also okyeah's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterization - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The intelligent users understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these comments, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE.

 

[SmiteMe]

You are taking a very complex subject (Neuroscience, evolution, biology, psychology, amongst many others) and simplifying in a way that isn't truly quantifiable. It's very difficult to predict complex behaviors such as suicide in humans. We're not talking about human peer bonding. We're talking about a behavior that very much goes against our own biology that has been rooted into us over the period of 4 billion years. Saying that we can predict such behavior is easy, is a farce.

Yes, we can predict that certain groups of people are going to do or pursue certain things or people in certain situations and under certain conditions. Yes, we can examine and make accurate predictions on human behavior. But for the most part, that is at best a theory and at worst a hypothesis, neither are absolutes. Now, just because something isn't an absolute doesn't mean it is wrong. Often times, something can be 99.9% correct, and not be a scientific law. So, you're not entirely wrong in your thinking, you're just wrong in some of your application of it.

chess ?

 

[okyeah]

You are taking a very complex subject (Neuroscience, evolution, biology, psychology, amongst many others) and simplifying in a way that isn't truly quantifiable. It's very difficult to predict complex behaviors such as suicide in humans. We're not talking about human peer bonding. We're talking about a behavior that very much goes against our own biology that has been rooted into us over the period of 4 billion years. Saying that we can easily predict such a behavior is a farce. However, suicide can be predicted. Not necessarily easily however. It is difficult and requires years of experience, education, or training to be able to truly identify the signs that someone is in imminent threat of taking their life.

Yes, we can predict that certain groups of people are going to do or pursue certain things or people in certain situations and under certain conditions. Yes, we can examine and make accurate predictions on human behavior. But for the most part, that is at best a theory and at worst a hypothesis, neither are absolutes. Now, just because something isn't an absolute doesn't mean it is wrong. Often times, something can be 99.9% correct, and not be a scientific law. So, you're not entirely wrong in your thinking, you're just wrong in some of your application of it.

Forensic psychologists can construct an accurate representation of how a wanted serial killer will act and what their background is. Obviously nothing is perfect in thsi world. But you can accurately predict some behaviors like when someone is actually suicidal versus when they are crying out for help.

 

[Threads]

I don't really think Okyeah is wrong though. I understand where is he coming from, and what he is saying.

I don't entirely agree with his outlook, but his outlook is his, and he has a right to have that outlook. I also rationalize and understand his outlook. I'm not the thought police, I'm not here to tell users how to think, I'm just posting what I think in this thread.

 

[TAW122]

I'd say this is partially true, but similar to what some others have said, there is a bit more to it than just being born into a good situation. I think I have the opposite problem growing up. While I don't have a big family or born into a small community per se, I was really molded into trying to fit a certain mold defined by the people my parents' know and by their view of society as well as society itself. However, I would say that I'm still not a happy individual since I never truly experienced freedom.

Would I be happier perhaps playing video games and guitar (piano in my case) for my whole life until I die? Probably not, especially if I realized that I lack to means to pursue certain goals and dreams that I have yet are unattainable. I also do not have many friends in life, merely acquaintances and people who just hang around when there is a small commonality between me and them. Other than that, no one really reaches out to me. I think my happiness would be being able to survive, live somewhat comfortably (not starving to death, not having to constantly fear for my safety, basic needs met, etc.) and of course having the ability to do what I wish to do in life (goals and dreams). Furthermore, there is always a problem with the human body itself, it ages and is prone to diseases and illnesses, so at some point in life one will become bedridden and need to depend on others. This is one fundamental reason of why I choose to die, before I lose the ability to do so on my own terms and with dignity. In addition to this, I also vehemently oppose society's general pro-life stance on life and anti-suicide, anti-death stance. That last part is philosophical and is something outside of my control, therefore, even with everything I want, I could still not be truly happy, except in eternal nonexistence.

 

[Threads]

Thread closed due to civility.